Nwebie to the world of Radical Ownership
Discussion
Christmas is only a few days away so what better time than now to buy myself a present - a nice example of a Clubsport for my Caterham to share the garage with.
Taken this as a more sensible way to put my toe in the water and resisted the temptation of diving straight in to an SR3.
I'm sure I'll be here often picking all your brains for advice.
Looking forward to getting her home and out on the Track at the earliest opportunity.
First questions.
Anyone have an Owners Manual in pdf format that they could share with me?
Planning a new paint job and looking for inspiration - suggestions?
I was planning to run a rear wing - any indications of effect on straight line speed and how easy is it to fit?
Taken this as a more sensible way to put my toe in the water and resisted the temptation of diving straight in to an SR3.
I'm sure I'll be here often picking all your brains for advice.
Looking forward to getting her home and out on the Track at the earliest opportunity.
First questions.
Anyone have an Owners Manual in pdf format that they could share with me?
Planning a new paint job and looking for inspiration - suggestions?
I was planning to run a rear wing - any indications of effect on straight line speed and how easy is it to fit?
this is of no help to you but to make you feel better i bought a club sport powed by a zzr 1100 in august this year,i am using it for hillclimbing and only had two runs with her,had a dutton v8 with 330hp,first run with the rad was faster than the quickest run with the dutton.had a very big smile on my face,god can the rads go aound corners
and stop,get used to it as it is then up grade.merry xmas dave.
and stop,get used to it as it is then up grade.merry xmas dave.
http://www.tillingmotorsport.com/id38.html
You'll find a PDF of the owners manual here
Fitting a wing to the rear will take a good few MPH off the top speed, it will give you a lot more rear end grip but may overwhelm the engine and will certainly affect the ballance of the car, understeer will become much more pronounced in high speed corners. Once you dial that out you will have a car that should give quicker lap times on some tracks but will be slow as a slow thing along the straights
Simon
Ps Happy Christmas
You'll find a PDF of the owners manual here
Fitting a wing to the rear will take a good few MPH off the top speed, it will give you a lot more rear end grip but may overwhelm the engine and will certainly affect the ballance of the car, understeer will become much more pronounced in high speed corners. Once you dial that out you will have a car that should give quicker lap times on some tracks but will be slow as a slow thing along the straights
Simon
Ps Happy Christmas
Welcome Geoff
Great to hear; hopefully you managed to have a favourable look-see @ Rockingham notwithstanding the monsoon!
Wouldn't be the other Geoff W's you've just bought would it? ......... that would be some coincidence.
Join ROC pronto (Will > radicaloc@googlemail.com ), Newbies will have to pay a subscription as of 2010, whereas existing Members will have a further year FOC. 2010 is looking set to be a very special year for us Radicalers.
There's a least a couple of other Radicals near you, one of whom is the inimitable JW; don't come any more knowledgable, affable or quicker than him.
Great to hear; hopefully you managed to have a favourable look-see @ Rockingham notwithstanding the monsoon!
Wouldn't be the other Geoff W's you've just bought would it? ......... that would be some coincidence.
Join ROC pronto (Will > radicaloc@googlemail.com ), Newbies will have to pay a subscription as of 2010, whereas existing Members will have a further year FOC. 2010 is looking set to be a very special year for us Radicalers.
There's a least a couple of other Radicals near you, one of whom is the inimitable JW; don't come any more knowledgable, affable or quicker than him.
I had a wing on mine and was unsure about taking it off, but it was the best thing I could've done. The car was understeer city with the wing. Couldn't unstick the back end. Quite safe, but very frustrating. Unless you are going to load the front with aero as well, I'd not do it. It's great to drive as is.
To fit you need the wing, the frame that has the uprights on that rivets under the rear bodywork and a different rear support frame on the car.
Bert
To fit you need the wing, the frame that has the uprights on that rivets under the rear bodywork and a different rear support frame on the car.
Bert
I ran my Clubsport last year in standard spec, got it well balanced and was good fun. Last winter I made my own aero package (rear wing, supports etc, front splitter/diffuser and extended the rear diffuser). I made it to be as low drag as I could bearing in mind it only had 1100cc pushing it along. This year with the aero package, my car was 2.5 seconds a lap quicker at Combe (would have been more as just as I was starting to get used to the downforce the engine blew up), I really believe another half a second was realistically acheivable with that set up. Top speed at Combe was 139 mph without aero, 135 mph with. The aero needs to be added as a whole package, just adding a wing and nothing else will just cause understeer. Also, let the wing profile do the work rather than adding lots of wing angle, that is where the large amounts of drag come from (in my opinion!)
Contrary to Bert, adding the aero was the best thing I have done to it (yet!)
Martin
Contrary to Bert, adding the aero was the best thing I have done to it (yet!)
Martin
My guidance is to ask what you intend to do with the car noting it might just be a stepping stone to an SR3.
If it's trackdays etc don't bother because even the 'as-is' performance on a mixed trackday or whatever means that you can never open it properly and is hence quite a frustrating experience.
If it's for racing, consider the (in)eligibility of the car for most of the Clubsport-orientated classes, and subsequent questionable competitiveness in the 'open' categories. That's not to say you shouldn't do it, it just might influence what/where you want to race.
I'd keep it standard, learn it, enjoy it, trade up as and when.
Mark
If it's trackdays etc don't bother because even the 'as-is' performance on a mixed trackday or whatever means that you can never open it properly and is hence quite a frustrating experience.
If it's for racing, consider the (in)eligibility of the car for most of the Clubsport-orientated classes, and subsequent questionable competitiveness in the 'open' categories. That's not to say you shouldn't do it, it just might influence what/where you want to race.
I'd keep it standard, learn it, enjoy it, trade up as and when.
Mark
Hi Martin - interesting to read your post about the aero on the Clubsport. I fitted the rear wing,
high downforce splitter and dive planes to my Clubsport and whilst it is easy to drive I still
suffer from bad understeer as noted in other posts. What have you used on the front end of yours?
I also see that you are planning to fit the ZZR 1200 to yours which I am in the process of doing too.
Powertec are building me a modified 1200 to get close to the standard Prosport power output.
Costing a fortune but cheaper than changing everything to Busa running gear!
I will send a photo of the head oil drain mod when it returns from Peterborough!
Tim
high downforce splitter and dive planes to my Clubsport and whilst it is easy to drive I still
suffer from bad understeer as noted in other posts. What have you used on the front end of yours?
I also see that you are planning to fit the ZZR 1200 to yours which I am in the process of doing too.
Powertec are building me a modified 1200 to get close to the standard Prosport power output.
Costing a fortune but cheaper than changing everything to Busa running gear!
I will send a photo of the head oil drain mod when it returns from Peterborough!
Tim
tprocket said:
Powertec are building me a modified 1200 to get close to the standard Prosport power output. Costing a fortune but cheaper than changing everything to Busa running gear!
Careful Tim, don't want you spending your childrens inheritance recklessly. Or to put it another way, you are already faster than me so stop making your car faster and give us a chance to catch up! Are you looking at Bikesports again next year, double headers at all meetings sounds good? Apologies for thread hijack!
Technical considerations/arguments aside, boy is that one great looking Clubbie - I just love 'em, that inherent simplicity, even better aesthetically with a bit of simple wing & splitter like Mr B's (congrats on your clever hands Martin) & Mr P's.
Sounds like Mr P is going for it ..... good on yer Tim, this isn't a practice run. Always a good idea to lavish some money on the One You Love (second most) - still a hell of a lot cheaper and way more ethical than running a mistress, so they tell me.
Sounds like Mr P is going for it ..... good on yer Tim, this isn't a practice run. Always a good idea to lavish some money on the One You Love (second most) - still a hell of a lot cheaper and way more ethical than running a mistress, so they tell me.
Tim, you might be interested in the following comparison of cylinder heads, the ZZR1200 I have ported but, I will be running standard camshafts so the flow curve is fine (max lift at 350 thou) all tests carried out on the same kit so comparisons valid even if figures not absolute. The ZZR only really dips out through lack of CCs and being a bit heavier than the Busa.
My "simple" front splitter looks like this underneath:
and on top:
I run mine as low as I can get away with (legal) at the front, understeer can be caused by a lot of different things though, is it high speed or low speed understeer?
My "simple" front splitter looks like this underneath:
and on top:
I run mine as low as I can get away with (legal) at the front, understeer can be caused by a lot of different things though, is it high speed or low speed understeer?
Edited by Martin B on Tuesday 22 December 18:10
Hi Martin - thanks for the comprehensive reply. Thats a very impressive piece of DIY GRP work!!
I noticed that you do not run dive planes and I guess that all of your front downforce is generated by the
front splitter/undertray - does the design underneath generate the downforce?
Our understeer is mainly in the low speed corners and I really noticed it at Silverstone into Luffield.
That said - we are really only starting out with set up with regards to suspension settings etc.
I noticed that you do not run dive planes and I guess that all of your front downforce is generated by the
front splitter/undertray - does the design underneath generate the downforce?
Our understeer is mainly in the low speed corners and I really noticed it at Silverstone into Luffield.
That said - we are really only starting out with set up with regards to suspension settings etc.
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