Discussion
What's the spec of the standard 1475cc as supplied for the SR3 & PR6?
Apart from the obvious stroker crank & rods, from what I have gathered it has standard pistons a lightly ported head with re profiled standard cams, but do they fit a race cam chain & race valve springs / billet clutch basket at standard?
Does anyone have a Powertec dyno run for one they would be kind enough to share?
Apart from the obvious stroker crank & rods, from what I have gathered it has standard pistons a lightly ported head with re profiled standard cams, but do they fit a race cam chain & race valve springs / billet clutch basket at standard?
Does anyone have a Powertec dyno run for one they would be kind enough to share?
Edited by dsl2 on Saturday 5th December 21:17
hi darren no it dosent have standard pistons i think they use JE. they use a standard clutch basket with the unique radical welded back plate. if you would like photos i can show you what was left of mine after it let go. not sure about the chain roller. I know what you are thinking, but i have to ask you given the superb performance of your engine last year why change?
Hi Darren
Probably of limited help but >
As at December 2007 (it was based on the 1299cc K7 then) the 1500 Powertec’s standard spec was described as gas flowed cylinder head, reprofiled cams, adjustable sprockets and shims, billet long stroke crankshaft, all steel conrods, standard pistons and bore, heavy duty clutch springs, dyno finished. BTW "standard pistons" may just refer to the bore, so Barry's likely right about them using different pistons; 1500s are supposed to be run on 'Super min 98', whereas standard Busas can run on 'Standard min 95' so I'd guess a higher compression piston is used.
Options offered on the above at the time were billet clutch basket, billet clutch backplate, billet clutch centre, special clutch spring set, heavy duty gearbox output shaft, hardened 5th and 6th gear set and high ratio 5th and 6th gear set.
The 1500 is now of course based on the K8 1340cc, so I don’t know what the spec is now. Rumour has it that when Powertec-ed, the K8 produces appreciably more power than the K7, whether when standard capacity or when stroked, more than the modest increase in capacity might suggest. I suspect therefore that Powertec may now do quite a bit more to the motor, so maybe some of the options (particularly in the clutch/gearbox department) are now standard spec?
Early morning thought > I should know this but I don't > Is the 1500, that was actually a 1475, still that or something different i.e. bigger?
Regards
Trev
Probably of limited help but >
As at December 2007 (it was based on the 1299cc K7 then) the 1500 Powertec’s standard spec was described as gas flowed cylinder head, reprofiled cams, adjustable sprockets and shims, billet long stroke crankshaft, all steel conrods, standard pistons and bore, heavy duty clutch springs, dyno finished. BTW "standard pistons" may just refer to the bore, so Barry's likely right about them using different pistons; 1500s are supposed to be run on 'Super min 98', whereas standard Busas can run on 'Standard min 95' so I'd guess a higher compression piston is used.
Options offered on the above at the time were billet clutch basket, billet clutch backplate, billet clutch centre, special clutch spring set, heavy duty gearbox output shaft, hardened 5th and 6th gear set and high ratio 5th and 6th gear set.
The 1500 is now of course based on the K8 1340cc, so I don’t know what the spec is now. Rumour has it that when Powertec-ed, the K8 produces appreciably more power than the K7, whether when standard capacity or when stroked, more than the modest increase in capacity might suggest. I suspect therefore that Powertec may now do quite a bit more to the motor, so maybe some of the options (particularly in the clutch/gearbox department) are now standard spec?
Early morning thought > I should know this but I don't > Is the 1500, that was actually a 1475, still that or something different i.e. bigger?
Regards
Trev
Cheers Fella's.
Trev, the current K8 based 1500'c should be the same cc as before at 1475cc, the increase capacity on K8 busa's comes from the crank being +2mm on stroke, as that is removed to be replaced by the stroker crank to go 1500 (1475cc) you loose that extra capacity!
From what I understand the additional power from K8 comes from the head being better in standard form & increased standard compression ratio.
I'm still not quite sure what to do engine wise next season, I was hoping to wait until I knew what the other tuned runners planned, but I really need to push the button next week as Powertec are flat out busy & I need to get in the que.......Shall be fishing the faithful 1300 out this afternoon, its going to need a refresh as a minimum after this seasons 28hrs of stirling effort, but I didn't really want to end up with such a big capacity deficit next season if I can help it...
Barry at the awards do we were given a DVD of the seasons racing, I was a little surprised to see JW in the 2nd Snett race where he had the standard 1500 fitted to see he was actually gaining on me down the straights. I wouldn't have the modified clutch basket on one of my engines, either a standard unmolested one the same I had all year in mine (with no problems) or the full on billet jobbie.
Next year is going to be a long old season in Clubcup, with running my own car I would rather have reliability over ultimate power, so at this stage I am pretty certain I shall be having a 2008 +2mm crank & spacer plate put in my current tuned engine to give me a 1340cc motor & take my chances......
Trev, the current K8 based 1500'c should be the same cc as before at 1475cc, the increase capacity on K8 busa's comes from the crank being +2mm on stroke, as that is removed to be replaced by the stroker crank to go 1500 (1475cc) you loose that extra capacity!
From what I understand the additional power from K8 comes from the head being better in standard form & increased standard compression ratio.
I'm still not quite sure what to do engine wise next season, I was hoping to wait until I knew what the other tuned runners planned, but I really need to push the button next week as Powertec are flat out busy & I need to get in the que.......Shall be fishing the faithful 1300 out this afternoon, its going to need a refresh as a minimum after this seasons 28hrs of stirling effort, but I didn't really want to end up with such a big capacity deficit next season if I can help it...
Barry at the awards do we were given a DVD of the seasons racing, I was a little surprised to see JW in the 2nd Snett race where he had the standard 1500 fitted to see he was actually gaining on me down the straights. I wouldn't have the modified clutch basket on one of my engines, either a standard unmolested one the same I had all year in mine (with no problems) or the full on billet jobbie.
Next year is going to be a long old season in Clubcup, with running my own car I would rather have reliability over ultimate power, so at this stage I am pretty certain I shall be having a 2008 +2mm crank & spacer plate put in my current tuned engine to give me a 1340cc motor & take my chances......
Edited by dsl2 on Sunday 6th December 10:27
that makes sense as a 1500 vs 1300 deficit will be most evident on a long straight. i guess a mystral 1500 would be quite a weapon? but on balance putting a 2008 crank in your engine is a very sensible option this plus a bit of head work. Just out of interest before i sold my car i put a k8 1340 engine in it and it was lovely very smooth very quick it is a very nice engine. it is a pity that the twin injector throttle bodies suzuki set up is ditched in favour of the jenvys. MBE/sbd do a map and a wiring loom for the twin injectors and apparently the ones that are out there running this set up are going very well.
Darren, if you want go for the Championship, 1340 is obviously the way to go in the PR06 although I think it remains to be seen how it'll compare to a 1500 SR3. I think it will be very very close (the latest SR3 is a very fine tool indeed) and it may well come down to what characteristics best suits a particular circuit?
If it's outright wins in Invitation rather than Championship that floats your boat, I think the 1550 would be optimum for maximum attack in the PR06 (for some reason, I've got into my head that the 1585cc is just a step too far), but might it actually be sensible (when did they ever become a consideration!) to think about the K8 1500 in the PR06 with it's Day One lower costs, a long season ahead and perhaps even later saleability to SR3 Championship competitors?
It makes sense that JW was pulling you in on the straights; if it was a K8 1500, having checked your dyno plots this morning, it'd have had more power than your Tuned 1300, in fact I'm pretty sure about the same as your Tuned 1400.
I personally think the 1340 makes by far the most sense, particularly when I factor in what I regard as your very mature outlook on "what do I want to get out of this racing malarky?". However (and this may be the most telling comment of the lot?) you'll be down on power compared to the season just gone. I'd also want chapter & verse on the differences between a K7 & 8 before uprating (and detuning in your case) from the former to the latter.
As they say, "Your Call Mate!"
If it's outright wins in Invitation rather than Championship that floats your boat, I think the 1550 would be optimum for maximum attack in the PR06 (for some reason, I've got into my head that the 1585cc is just a step too far), but might it actually be sensible (when did they ever become a consideration!) to think about the K8 1500 in the PR06 with it's Day One lower costs, a long season ahead and perhaps even later saleability to SR3 Championship competitors?
It makes sense that JW was pulling you in on the straights; if it was a K8 1500, having checked your dyno plots this morning, it'd have had more power than your Tuned 1300, in fact I'm pretty sure about the same as your Tuned 1400.
I personally think the 1340 makes by far the most sense, particularly when I factor in what I regard as your very mature outlook on "what do I want to get out of this racing malarky?". However (and this may be the most telling comment of the lot?) you'll be down on power compared to the season just gone. I'd also want chapter & verse on the differences between a K7 & 8 before uprating (and detuning in your case) from the former to the latter.
As they say, "Your Call Mate!"
Standard 1340cc's would be fine if there were unanimous agreement amongst all PR6 runner to all go for one, however as a number of the guys have spent a lot of money on big cc tuned motors(that are no longer eligible for championship points) that is a big ask.
Turning up as one of just a few standard 1340cc PR6's would be a bit pointless as without sufficient numbers of class runners you don't get full points, & if tuned big cc runners turn up you don't have a chance of the overall win either.....
I was all geared up for a 1548cc motor before the championship changes took place, but with an uncertain number of tuned runners for next year & the original plan to be a reduction in the tuned class down to a max of 1340cc for 2011, I would of been left with a very expensive engine redundant after just the one season (understand that may now not be the case & bigger tuned engines might be staying....?)
With this level of uncertainty its very difficult for me to know what to do for the best, by sticking with the 1340cc motor at least I KNOW I have the correct engine for the 750MC bikesports!
Turning up as one of just a few standard 1340cc PR6's would be a bit pointless as without sufficient numbers of class runners you don't get full points, & if tuned big cc runners turn up you don't have a chance of the overall win either.....
I was all geared up for a 1548cc motor before the championship changes took place, but with an uncertain number of tuned runners for next year & the original plan to be a reduction in the tuned class down to a max of 1340cc for 2011, I would of been left with a very expensive engine redundant after just the one season (understand that may now not be the case & bigger tuned engines might be staying....?)
With this level of uncertainty its very difficult for me to know what to do for the best, by sticking with the 1340cc motor at least I KNOW I have the correct engine for the 750MC bikesports!
dsl2 said:
What's the spec of the standard 1475cc as supplied for the SR3 & PR6?
Apart from the obvious stroker crank & rods, from what I have gathered it has standard pistons a lightly ported head with re profiled standard cams, but do they fit a race cam chain & race valve springs / billet clutch basket at standard?
Does anyone have a Powertec dyno run for one they would be kind enough to share?
DarrenApart from the obvious stroker crank & rods, from what I have gathered it has standard pistons a lightly ported head with re profiled standard cams, but do they fit a race cam chain & race valve springs / billet clutch basket at standard?
Does anyone have a Powertec dyno run for one they would be kind enough to share?
Edited by dsl2 on Saturday 5th December 21:17
YHM
L
dsl2 said:
News to me!
Afterall, you're only BE Champ! 
Wouldn't surprise me: it appears to me that Radical themselves are already in what may eventually prove to be a transition phase favouring/encouraging 'standard' engines, so one might expect 750MC (who already have what is apparently an approach of trying to avoid the size of one's wallet determining too much who wins) to do likewise?
It really depends on how 750MC go about 'favouring' lower cost 'standard' engines? I guess one will have to await the publication of their Regs; as I understand it, unlike such as Radical and BESCR, they do not adopt the policy of publishing their Regs in 'Draft/Provisional' (pre MSA approval) form.
splitpin said:
I guess one will have to await the publication of their Regs; as I understand it, unlike such as Radical and BESCR, they do not adopt the policy of publishing their Regs in 'Draft/Provisional' (pre MSA approval) form.
The 750 were always funny about releasing their regs until their calendar was fixed.Obviously, when I was Formula Rep, the 750 reluctantly allowed me to express my opinions - so I made myself busy releasing all kinds of draft regs; loads of emails; and stuff that I really shouldn't have; in an attempt to involve the drivers in the process.
Unfortunately, I think Jon (who, as a manufacturer/supplier, obviously has a business axe to grind) is now Bikesports Formula Rep and is certainly (with his long standing associations with 750 Formula) very cosy-cosy with Robin and Keith.
Anyway (he says lying down in a dark room) if someone's racing with Bikesports, can they please succesfully put themselves up for Formula Rep?
Edited by Count Johnny on Wednesday 9th December 15:53
Count Johnny said:
splitpin said:
I guess one will have to await the publication of their Regs; as I understand it, unlike such as Radical and BESCR, they do not adopt the policy of publishing their Regs in 'Draft/Provisional' (pre MSA approval) form.
The 750 were always funny about releasing their regs until their calendar was fixed.Obviously, when I was Formula Rep, the 750 reluctantly allowed me to express my opinions - so I made myself busy releasing all kinds of draft regs; loads of emails; and stuff that I really shouldn't have; in an attempt to involve the drivers in the process.
Unfortunately, I think Jon (who, as a manufacturer/supplier, obviously has a business axe to grind) is now Bikesports Formula Rep and is certainly (with his long standing associations with 750 Formula) very cosy-cosy with Robin and Keith.
Anyway (he says lying down in a dark room) if someone's racing with Bikesports, can they please succesfully put themselves up for Formula Rep?
Edited by Count Johnny on Wednesday 9th December 15:53
Edited by splitpin on Wednesday 9th December 16:12
its really nice to see a bit of common sense coming into these series both 750 and radical. by regulating out these ridiculous tuned engines the savings will be huge for everyone. The cost of one blown tuned engine is equivalent to most club racers entire years budget. The tuned engines prove nothing and add nothing to the racing. Once all this lunacy has abated and we get back to standard engines standard ecu i will be at the head of the que to get back to some good low cost, close club racing.
It was interesting chatting to the formula renault rep. He stated that if there is a one second gap between the front of the grid and the back of the grid he is doing his job properly. The engines, gearboxes,diffs and ecu are all sealed.
am i detecting the tide of opinion moving back towards common sense surely not? 1500 for sr3 and 1300/1340 for pr6 and the like. I put a K8 1340 into my PR6 before i sold it £4,300 all in with powetec seal, lovely.The question is what will you all do with the £10,000 you are going to save on engine costs?
It was interesting chatting to the formula renault rep. He stated that if there is a one second gap between the front of the grid and the back of the grid he is doing his job properly. The engines, gearboxes,diffs and ecu are all sealed.
am i detecting the tide of opinion moving back towards common sense surely not? 1500 for sr3 and 1300/1340 for pr6 and the like. I put a K8 1340 into my PR6 before i sold it £4,300 all in with powetec seal, lovely.The question is what will you all do with the £10,000 you are going to save on engine costs?
its really nice to see a bit of common sense coming into these series both 750 and radical. by regulating out these ridiculous tuned engines the savings will be huge for everyone. The cost of one blown tuned engine is equivalent to most club racers entire years budget. The tuned engines prove nothing and add nothing to the racing. Once all this lunacy has abated and we get back to standard engines standard ecu i will be at the head of the que to get back to some good low cost, close club racing.
It was interesting chatting to the formula renault rep. He stated that if there is a one second gap between the front of the grid and the back of the grid he is doing his job properly. The engines, gearboxes,diffs and ecu are all sealed.
am i detecting the tide of opinion moving back towards common sense surely not? 1500 for sr3 and 1300/1340 for pr6 and the like. I put a K8 1340 into my PR6 before i sold it £4,300 all in with powetec seal, lovely.The question is what will you all do with the £10,000 you are going to save on engine costs?
It was interesting chatting to the formula renault rep. He stated that if there is a one second gap between the front of the grid and the back of the grid he is doing his job properly. The engines, gearboxes,diffs and ecu are all sealed.
am i detecting the tide of opinion moving back towards common sense surely not? 1500 for sr3 and 1300/1340 for pr6 and the like. I put a K8 1340 into my PR6 before i sold it £4,300 all in with powetec seal, lovely.The question is what will you all do with the £10,000 you are going to save on engine costs?
barryv12 said:
...am i detecting the tide of opinion moving back towards common sense...?
I doubt it. Sadly, the history of motorsport tells us otherwise.barryv12 said:
...The question is what will you all do with the £10,000 you are going to save on engine costs?...
Use a new engine every other meeting, and have all of them blueprinted. That should do for ten grand easy. Or spend the money on something else to make the car go faster.How about spending tens of thousands on aero and carbon? Except I've already done that!
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