ROC t/day @ Rockingham Sun 01 Nov
Discussion
Being daftly superstitious, my policy is not to talk about the weather, particularly as it seems to me that despite all the kit they've got at their disposal nowadays, what they say doesn't always actually happen. Thank Heavens.
So as far as Willbee (& me) is concerned, Whatever will be will be ............
So as far as Willbee (& me) is concerned, Whatever will be will be ............
Disconnecting the roll bars front & rear is a good start.....
Depending on how grippy you find the track on the day- I found myself going faster in the wet at Donnington (which was very slippy) by concentrating on getting the car stopped accurately, into the corner apex with little or no understeer, then being pretty aggressive with the throttle on the way out. Tried carrying more speed through the corner & less throttle on the way out but was slower for me. As a contrast however Brands was so grippy in the wet you could drive like you were on slicks more or less (was only 3.5 secs ish off a full on dry lap time that day)
The PR6 is absolutely superb in the wet, with generally faithful handling & still excellent braking ability, saying that I would build up carefully before going flat out round that banking!
Depending on how grippy you find the track on the day- I found myself going faster in the wet at Donnington (which was very slippy) by concentrating on getting the car stopped accurately, into the corner apex with little or no understeer, then being pretty aggressive with the throttle on the way out. Tried carrying more speed through the corner & less throttle on the way out but was slower for me. As a contrast however Brands was so grippy in the wet you could drive like you were on slicks more or less (was only 3.5 secs ish off a full on dry lap time that day)
The PR6 is absolutely superb in the wet, with generally faithful handling & still excellent braking ability, saying that I would build up carefully before going flat out round that banking!
The general recommendation seems to be to wind the brake bias further rearward for the wet (I don't), however I wouldn't be to hasty to do that as the last thing you want is the car swapping ends whilst jumping on the brakes a tad too aggressively when in anything other than straight line.........
dsl2 said:
The general recommendation seems to be to wind the brake bias further rearward for the wet (I don't), however I wouldn't be to hasty to do that as the last thing you want is the car swapping ends whilst jumping on the brakes a tad too aggressively when in anything other than straight line.........
Do you know what the rationale for that is? I've never got to the bottom of it - means trail braking becomes a *very* tricky exercise!Always going to sound a bit weird to us Bikers who only ever use the brake at the back to stop the back coming round when the counter-steering needs a bit more help! Like seldom used.
Even set to maximum to the back, I suspect that on a Radical at least 60/70% will be going to the front?
Even set to maximum to the back, I suspect that on a Radical at least 60/70% will be going to the front?
fergus said:
dsl2 said:
The general recommendation seems to be to wind the brake bias further rearward for the wet (I don't), however I wouldn't be to hasty to do that as the last thing you want is the car swapping ends whilst jumping on the brakes a tad too aggressively when in anything other than straight line.........
Do you know what the rationale for that is? I've never got to the bottom of it - means trail braking becomes a *very* tricky exercise!
Just booked the last available place for Sunday, my first time out in the Rad this year and hoping it will persuade me to race it next year (it's currently up for sale). And now I've just read this thread predicting rain, don't mind that but makes me pleased I reserved a garage. Then again, not sure I fancy being flat out round the banking quite as much now... cheers Geoff ps pic of the circuit we'll be on (from BAT):
dsl2 said:
I believe its to do with the lesser amount of forward weight transfer when braking in the wet as there's less purchase between tyre & track surface. Therefor the rear wheels are not so lightly loaded & able to have a greater share of the braking load put through them.
Absolutely spot on (the only difference being that you're good enough for it to be real and meaningful, whereas with me, it's purely theory!)Without getting too anorak, on any given track, if you've got the bias set up the way you like it on a dry track, if it then rains, it almost certainly won't remain to your liking. On tarmac you get a huge weight transfer to the front under heavy braking, so if the track becomes wet, as there is far less grip, you don't get anywhere near as much of a transfer of weight; the front brakes would lock while the back would be doing bugger all. Result? A spin. That's why you increase the bias to the rear to compensate for the reduced front end weight transfer. How much bias whether dry or wet depends on your preferences; some like it 'tight', others like it 'loose'; most who know far more than any of us reckon the right starting point with a race car is just a touch of understeer.
PS Great to hear you're coming Geoff! Look forward to meeting you
Edited by splitpin on Wednesday 28th October 20:15
GeoffW said:
Just booked the last available place for Sunday, my first time out in the Rad this year and hoping it will persuade me to race it next year (it's currently up for sale). And now I've just read this thread predicting rain, don't mind that but makes me pleased I reserved a garage. Then again, not sure I fancy being flat out round the banking quite as much now... cheers Geoff ps pic of the circuit we'll be on (from BAT):
Great to hear Geoff. Hopefully we should all be placed next to one another. See you there!splitpin said:
dsl2 said:
I believe its to do with the lesser amount of forward weight transfer when braking in the wet as there's less purchase between tyre & track surface. Therefor the rear wheels are not so lightly loaded & able to have a greater share of the braking load put through them.
Absolutely spot on (the only difference being that you're good enough for it to be real and meaningful, whereas with me, it's purely theory!)Without getting too anorak, on any given track, if you've got the bias set up the way you like it on a dry track, if it then rains, it almost certainly won't remain to your liking. On tarmac you get a huge weight transfer to the front under heavy braking, so if the track becomes wet, as there is far less grip, you don't get anywhere near as much of a transfer of weight; the front brakes would lock while the back would be doing bugger all. Result? A spin. That's why you increase the bias to the rear to compensate for the reduced front end weight transfer. How much bias whether dry or wet depends on your preferences; some like it 'tight', others like it 'loose'; most who know far more than any of us reckon the right starting point with a race car is just a touch of understeer.
PS Great to hear you're coming Geoff! Look forward to meeting you
Edited by splitpin on Wednesday 28th October 20:15
Makes sense Darren, for me I never changed it....braking was never a problem in the wet....putting the power down...well thats another story!
I hate understeer with a passion too Rob, what I try to get is a front end that goes where I point it & as a consequence end up with a slightly oversteery back end that helps take the turn out of the corner.
But being brought up on powerful Caterham's I do tend to like a bit of oversteer!
But being brought up on powerful Caterham's I do tend to like a bit of oversteer!
Hey ease up guys. I said a touch of understeer, meaning that side of the neutral line; I should have said that and added "the merest whiff". With 100% neutral or the merest whiff of understeer, the car should go exactly where it's pointed and oversteer should be available on demand.
As to Caterhams etc, with their handling dynamics, don't you simply decide how much oversteer you want to deal with?
As to Caterhams etc, with their handling dynamics, don't you simply decide how much oversteer you want to deal with?
Does anyone have a spare propeller they can bring with them on Sunday? A bouyancy aid would also be appreciated 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/4272 click on the rolling forecast on the map image and scroll to 'Sunday'.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/4272 click on the rolling forecast on the map image and scroll to 'Sunday'.....
Not getting much better is it? No doubt that 'little system' has to pass across the UK some time but I was hoping they'd got their timing wrong and it would either have passed or still be approaching. Time yet 
!
If it doesn't change I'll probably be supporting you guys a bit more obviously as I've a set of wets for the Rad instead of slipping and sliding around on CR500s.
Anybody know about allocated garages? I've booked one and will be in no. 25.
Edited to add that I blame that Rob C guy . Every time so far has been a downpour for the first half easing to a wet / dry / wet second half. Observation of Sundays conditions will be made and inevitable comparisons will follow
!If it doesn't change I'll probably be supporting you guys a bit more obviously as I've a set of wets for the Rad instead of slipping and sliding around on CR500s.
Anybody know about allocated garages? I've booked one and will be in no. 25.
Edited to add that I blame that Rob C guy
. Every time so far has been a downpour for the first half easing to a wet / dry / wet second half. Observation of Sundays conditions will be made and inevitable comparisons will follow Edited by martvr on Friday 30th October 21:19
martvr said:
If it doesn't change I'll probably be supporting you guys a bit more obviously as I've a set of wets for the Rad instead of slipping and sliding around on CR500s.
Anybody know about allocated garages? I've booked one and will be in no. 25.
Like they say "Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining" !Anybody know about allocated garages? I've booked one and will be in no. 25.
Edited by martvr on Friday 30th October 21:19
I've asked Jonny what two garages the Rads wwill be in, but he has yet to reply .......... I'll ask again and when I know I'll post up.
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