FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Discussion
I wanted lay this one down for the forum and gather thoughts. Many people are saying it must happen but how to start, It is the devil that dare not speak its name fixed engine capacity. First of all let me say i am a big fan of radical and its products as the owner of 3 different models of all types and sizes. As a british company doing well they deserve all our support. The recent faliure of the x bow is a testament to their rightness in their products and the market requirements. this posting is about engines not about cars or products.
I was thinking about the changes in bike engined cars since the 4 years that i have been involved in it, the development in engine sizes and power and capacity and more important the cost has been staggering. What i see is this curve accelarating if you will excuse the pun.
without going into detail i had a problem with my 1500 engine. the result of which i discovered that the value of my engine is about £15,000 including vat maybe a tad less. My engine in my SR3 was £3500. As we move into 1550 cc, 1585cc and soon to be 1625 territory i have to ask a question.
I am guessing that based on my experience the cost of a good 1550, 1585, 1625 must be heading up towards £20,000 maybe more? is it time to propose an alternative way forward.
If you look at the series that are doing well, minis, formula ford, palmer audi, and the new F2 they are all one make regulated championships. The public like it because they can see the talent of the drivers. The drivers like it because they can measure themselves against their fellow competitors at at a fixed/sensible cost.
if i had suggested 4 years ago that in order to be in front of the grid a £20,000 engine would be required no one would have believed me.
So if i waved a magic wand over the club cup grid tomorrow and we were all starting with fixed 1300 engines for single seater like the prosport and the pro6 and maybe 1500 for the heavier sr3 both with fixed ecu what would be the result. I would suggest bloody close racing where the best driver would win, a better spectacle for the public and budgets that were dramatically reduced for the competitors. There would be a reduction of a few seconds in the lap times but it would be the same for everyone so does it really matter, because the racing would be superb. So when i get my arse kicked by jonathan wright and jp ivey ( as i surely would) i can shake them warmly by the hand and say well done knowing that i had been beaten by the better driver. Similarly what a tremendous sense of satisfaction for them knowing that with equal equipment they had beaten all comers. Regulated engine sizes does not hide talent it highlights it.
the net result would be close racing, a good spectacle for the public, reduced cost for the competitors £4000 engines instead of £15-20,000+ engines, thriving grids. After an engine blow up you can pop out and buy a replacement without a re mortgage. In a world where all forms of motor racing are reducing costs should we not be thinking about doing the same?
discuss
ps excuse the typos this is my daughters apple laptop i cant work out the spell check for the liffe of me
I was thinking about the changes in bike engined cars since the 4 years that i have been involved in it, the development in engine sizes and power and capacity and more important the cost has been staggering. What i see is this curve accelarating if you will excuse the pun.
without going into detail i had a problem with my 1500 engine. the result of which i discovered that the value of my engine is about £15,000 including vat maybe a tad less. My engine in my SR3 was £3500. As we move into 1550 cc, 1585cc and soon to be 1625 territory i have to ask a question.
I am guessing that based on my experience the cost of a good 1550, 1585, 1625 must be heading up towards £20,000 maybe more? is it time to propose an alternative way forward.
If you look at the series that are doing well, minis, formula ford, palmer audi, and the new F2 they are all one make regulated championships. The public like it because they can see the talent of the drivers. The drivers like it because they can measure themselves against their fellow competitors at at a fixed/sensible cost.
if i had suggested 4 years ago that in order to be in front of the grid a £20,000 engine would be required no one would have believed me.
So if i waved a magic wand over the club cup grid tomorrow and we were all starting with fixed 1300 engines for single seater like the prosport and the pro6 and maybe 1500 for the heavier sr3 both with fixed ecu what would be the result. I would suggest bloody close racing where the best driver would win, a better spectacle for the public and budgets that were dramatically reduced for the competitors. There would be a reduction of a few seconds in the lap times but it would be the same for everyone so does it really matter, because the racing would be superb. So when i get my arse kicked by jonathan wright and jp ivey ( as i surely would) i can shake them warmly by the hand and say well done knowing that i had been beaten by the better driver. Similarly what a tremendous sense of satisfaction for them knowing that with equal equipment they had beaten all comers. Regulated engine sizes does not hide talent it highlights it.
the net result would be close racing, a good spectacle for the public, reduced cost for the competitors £4000 engines instead of £15-20,000+ engines, thriving grids. After an engine blow up you can pop out and buy a replacement without a re mortgage. In a world where all forms of motor racing are reducing costs should we not be thinking about doing the same?
discuss
ps excuse the typos this is my daughters apple laptop i cant work out the spell check for the liffe of me
Barry
I would love to have a cap on engines to standard 1300 well thats what i have in my PR6
as next year i would like to do all the clubman cup races but i want to be in a position where i can win and i can't and i don't have the money to upgrade to a 1585 or bigger motor, trouble is there are a few PR6's that have spent the big bucks to get these motor's, i was only speaking to Darren about it yesterday he has done amazingly well with his tuned 1300 but needs the extra cc's to win i imagine he would much rather not spend 15k + on a engine but what about the one's that have!!
Maybe Radical should have done something about the engine's before now on one hand they are building selling expensive motor's on the other maybe putting people off because you need the big motor's, how about the SR3 drivers i imagine R sell more of those than PR6 you buy your full spec SR3 come to play in the club cup might win the class but bob and no hope of winning the race.
I think the club cup is great good grids the support of the factory limiting the about of tyres you can use in the season 3 sets i think it is (on that i have a friend that does the mini challenge) that was at croft the front runners might use up to 10 tyres a weekend. Madness... one set did me 10 races.
Yes discuss would love to hear from Radical on this one
I would love to have a cap on engines to standard 1300 well thats what i have in my PR6
as next year i would like to do all the clubman cup races but i want to be in a position where i can win and i can't and i don't have the money to upgrade to a 1585 or bigger motor, trouble is there are a few PR6's that have spent the big bucks to get these motor's, i was only speaking to Darren about it yesterday he has done amazingly well with his tuned 1300 but needs the extra cc's to win i imagine he would much rather not spend 15k + on a engine but what about the one's that have!!
Maybe Radical should have done something about the engine's before now on one hand they are building selling expensive motor's on the other maybe putting people off because you need the big motor's, how about the SR3 drivers i imagine R sell more of those than PR6 you buy your full spec SR3 come to play in the club cup might win the class but bob and no hope of winning the race.
I think the club cup is great good grids the support of the factory limiting the about of tyres you can use in the season 3 sets i think it is (on that i have a friend that does the mini challenge) that was at croft the front runners might use up to 10 tyres a weekend. Madness... one set did me 10 races.
Yes discuss would love to hear from Radical on this one
Perhaps power to weight ratio would be a better measure? given that a PR6 is about 100kg lighter than an SR3 the same engine in a lighter car will always win out? Maybe not, I managed to push my old girl round Combe quicker than all the other club cup cars, only for one lap granted but in more skillful hands...?
Regulations need to either be structured to allow development and creativity, take a look at the diversity in the le Mans series, or to regulate cost and put the emphasis on driver and set up skills; FPA, F2, A1GP, FF, etc etc. By definition one make series usually follow the latter path.
Perhaps the Invitation class should be for bragging rights only and not count towards any championship?
The other way to look at it is that you are competing with other cars in your class not with the whole field. Otherwise all the Clubsport drivers would be looking to ban 1300s?
One can still win the championship outright by compiling more points in your class than anyone else does in their class so what is the issue - the desire to win outright? If so then I guess you will always find that that money spent increases your chance of winning, be it that the money is spent on engines, testing, tyres, lifing parts or what ever - that's Motor Racing and, IMHO, long may it continue!
Simon
www.tillingmotorsport.com
Regulations need to either be structured to allow development and creativity, take a look at the diversity in the le Mans series, or to regulate cost and put the emphasis on driver and set up skills; FPA, F2, A1GP, FF, etc etc. By definition one make series usually follow the latter path.
Perhaps the Invitation class should be for bragging rights only and not count towards any championship?
The other way to look at it is that you are competing with other cars in your class not with the whole field. Otherwise all the Clubsport drivers would be looking to ban 1300s?
One can still win the championship outright by compiling more points in your class than anyone else does in their class so what is the issue - the desire to win outright? If so then I guess you will always find that that money spent increases your chance of winning, be it that the money is spent on engines, testing, tyres, lifing parts or what ever - that's Motor Racing and, IMHO, long may it continue!
Simon
www.tillingmotorsport.com
Edited by Simon T on Tuesday 22 September 08:41
Mostly shamelessly lifted from an earlier discussion along similar lines-
Its a tricky subject for sure, the problem being that as soon as one person goes down the bigger motor route others soon follow......
In the club cup the number of people with "big" engine has increased pretty much meeting by meeting, I haven't minded much as this is a learning year for me & chasing them has been a lot of fun/hardwork. Next year I would like to be in a position to win. This leaves me with having to forkout for a bigger cc engine during the off season with all the associated extra costs of big bore exhaust / bigger rad / different sidepod with extra ducting for the big rad etc etc.
Looking at the Club cup as being the pinnacle of clubman Radical racing, you have to accept that its going to cost to run at the front, but this year touch wood I have been pleasantly surprised that the costs have not been too bad at all considering the level of competition (baring disasters)
Ultimately the power horse looks to of well & truly bolted! It now looks like its just too late to change the escalating cc path being taken, as so many people have forked out big time on full house big engines already.
As mentioned previously, I think there would of been a definite case of capping the PR6 at 1475cc, but even that opportunity has seemingly passed as I think there are now at least 5 with either 1550 or 1585cc motors. Then to give the SR3's free rein to 1585cc / 1660cc to level things up on account of its additional weight. This would of given the guys running them a further lease of life via the option of further deveolping their SR3 rather than having to consider selling up & looking towards the PR6 if they want to win overall consistently.
Personally I don't mind which way it goes as I have now pretty much got my head around the additional expenditure, but of course I do realize that a hell of a lot of people are not in the position to go down this path.
It would be a great benefit to us all if the powers that be at Radical / Powertec issued a bit of a statement just to clairify their thoughts / point of view on this subject................??
Its a tricky subject for sure, the problem being that as soon as one person goes down the bigger motor route others soon follow......
In the club cup the number of people with "big" engine has increased pretty much meeting by meeting, I haven't minded much as this is a learning year for me & chasing them has been a lot of fun/hardwork. Next year I would like to be in a position to win. This leaves me with having to forkout for a bigger cc engine during the off season with all the associated extra costs of big bore exhaust / bigger rad / different sidepod with extra ducting for the big rad etc etc.
Looking at the Club cup as being the pinnacle of clubman Radical racing, you have to accept that its going to cost to run at the front, but this year touch wood I have been pleasantly surprised that the costs have not been too bad at all considering the level of competition (baring disasters)
Ultimately the power horse looks to of well & truly bolted! It now looks like its just too late to change the escalating cc path being taken, as so many people have forked out big time on full house big engines already.
As mentioned previously, I think there would of been a definite case of capping the PR6 at 1475cc, but even that opportunity has seemingly passed as I think there are now at least 5 with either 1550 or 1585cc motors. Then to give the SR3's free rein to 1585cc / 1660cc to level things up on account of its additional weight. This would of given the guys running them a further lease of life via the option of further deveolping their SR3 rather than having to consider selling up & looking towards the PR6 if they want to win overall consistently.
Personally I don't mind which way it goes as I have now pretty much got my head around the additional expenditure, but of course I do realize that a hell of a lot of people are not in the position to go down this path.
It would be a great benefit to us all if the powers that be at Radical / Powertec issued a bit of a statement just to clairify their thoughts / point of view on this subject................??
Interesting topic. Reading the responses so far all I can say is that the word "club" is being forgotten. Basically the one with the biggest pockets win, yes I know you still need to pedal it but having 50bhp more than the next man sure helps! This isn't professional motorsport where big budgets rule and imho this shouldn't be the case in club motorsport. The MSA are doing their level best to make our hobby more and more expensive to do (and for new people to get into) so all I can see is less cars on the grids in the future.
Going back to the Radical thing, the problem is the "club" cup has become a very good marketing exercise (and profitable no doubt) for Radical so I can't see them putting restraints on the series. I am happy to be proved wrong there. I'm afraid if it is an issue for the competitors they should be looking at other series out there that will provide more competitive racing for them.
Going back to the Radical thing, the problem is the "club" cup has become a very good marketing exercise (and profitable no doubt) for Radical so I can't see them putting restraints on the series. I am happy to be proved wrong there. I'm afraid if it is an issue for the competitors they should be looking at other series out there that will provide more competitive racing for them.
Simon T said:
Perhaps power to weight ratio would be a better measure? given that a PR6 is about 100kg lighter than an SR3 the same engine in a lighter car will always win out? Maybe not, I managed to push my old girl round Combe quicker than all the other club cup cars, only for one lap granted but in more skillful hands...?
hi all, despite the recent 'kicking' the series have just had, can I point out that is exactly how BESCR was set up?If it hadn't been for the shocking season of grids and the need to get cars out, we wouldn't have chosen to put the 'invite' class in there. The A and B classes are set up exactly on the basis of true power (wheels) to weight (wet with driver on grid).
Despite the need for tweeking (based on more data), I'd say that we are prety close to a decent solution. Given reasonable future support, it can still be a working solution.
JP
good replies
What i am suggesting simon, is exactly what you have suggested 1300 for PR6 and the like and 1500 for the sr3s that should be about right.
but i would go a stage further and have sealed engines and sealed ECU what a joy it would be not to have to give the engine a second thought other than an oil change and plugs. Then all that pressure as to what to do and which direction how much money to spend etc etc is gone...bliss. Then what is left is just good close racing at a sensible budget.
For all those that want to go uber big and spend loads of money go for it. there is the UK cup series, have a £25,000 1660 cc engine and go and give the sr8s a kicking and we can all watch.
The problem for radical is that people are trading down from SR3 to big engined PR6 in order to be competetive in the clubcup series that cant be right surely?
I watched the TV coverage of combe and even the comentator didnt realise that darren luke was in a 1300 mixing it with the 1500/50/85 boys to him and the veiwing public a PR6 is a PR6 how are they supposed to know that there is a vast difference in engine power and size between JP and J wright.
The invitation idea is nice but it dosent work unless you are going to paint all the invitation cars Pink (nice!)so the public can tell what is going on. at the end of the day what is the point? We know that the same car with a bigger engine will go faster.
I qualified next to colin millar at Brands at the begining of the season and the four cars in front of us were all larger engined cars. Now colin has a 1550 and guess what his car goes faster. Now i have 3 choices stay as i am, buy a 1550 or buy a 1585 if i do then the next person behind me has the same choices its an upward spiral. not having a go at colin at all good luck to him but you get my point.
I would suggest that if the formula i suggest was adopted the driver results table would be more or less the same just the field would be much closer together and you would have packed grids at vastly reduced cost and financial outlay.
I am guessing that JP will do snett in about somewhere about 1.10-11ish in his 1300 and the big engined cars are 107? or thereabouts so to gain those three seconds based on £4,500 base engine vs a £17,000 engine is £4,166 per second gained. or put it another way four times the cost of the base engine.
Phew...i feel like max mosely without the whips chains and sex obviously...but if even F1 are limiting engines to reduce cost why are we not thinking about doing the same?
What i am suggesting simon, is exactly what you have suggested 1300 for PR6 and the like and 1500 for the sr3s that should be about right.
but i would go a stage further and have sealed engines and sealed ECU what a joy it would be not to have to give the engine a second thought other than an oil change and plugs. Then all that pressure as to what to do and which direction how much money to spend etc etc is gone...bliss. Then what is left is just good close racing at a sensible budget.
For all those that want to go uber big and spend loads of money go for it. there is the UK cup series, have a £25,000 1660 cc engine and go and give the sr8s a kicking and we can all watch.
The problem for radical is that people are trading down from SR3 to big engined PR6 in order to be competetive in the clubcup series that cant be right surely?
I watched the TV coverage of combe and even the comentator didnt realise that darren luke was in a 1300 mixing it with the 1500/50/85 boys to him and the veiwing public a PR6 is a PR6 how are they supposed to know that there is a vast difference in engine power and size between JP and J wright.
The invitation idea is nice but it dosent work unless you are going to paint all the invitation cars Pink (nice!)so the public can tell what is going on. at the end of the day what is the point? We know that the same car with a bigger engine will go faster.
I qualified next to colin millar at Brands at the begining of the season and the four cars in front of us were all larger engined cars. Now colin has a 1550 and guess what his car goes faster. Now i have 3 choices stay as i am, buy a 1550 or buy a 1585 if i do then the next person behind me has the same choices its an upward spiral. not having a go at colin at all good luck to him but you get my point.
I would suggest that if the formula i suggest was adopted the driver results table would be more or less the same just the field would be much closer together and you would have packed grids at vastly reduced cost and financial outlay.
I am guessing that JP will do snett in about somewhere about 1.10-11ish in his 1300 and the big engined cars are 107? or thereabouts so to gain those three seconds based on £4,500 base engine vs a £17,000 engine is £4,166 per second gained. or put it another way four times the cost of the base engine.
Phew...i feel like max mosely without the whips chains and sex obviously...but if even F1 are limiting engines to reduce cost why are we not thinking about doing the same?
Barry, I was in front of you on the grid at Brands with my 1300cc motor & finished 2nd in race two, about 1 second behind JW, so it is possible to get to the front without a 12-15k + motor, just bloody hard work!
As you pointed out though Colin really started to come good when Powertec reworked his 1550cc engine, which I believe was originally built elsewhere to a less than optimum standard...... Then Gary had his motor done out to 1585cc making his car so fast it nearly ripped the stickers off mine when it came past, then Paul, then JW joined the club, I just don't see how this can be stopped now..... Especially as its makes good business sense for the Radical / Powertec family, if it were my business I don't think I would be discouraging customers away from the route a lot of us have been / are heading down......
However, can I add that my Mistral built engine including buying the donor original Busa cost me about half the price of a full house 1585cc motor & has propelled me into the top three in every qualifying session thus far in the club cup rounds & onto four 2nd places, all in the dry so pretty much on merit alone. I am actually starting to think that it may be possible to win at certain tracks with the 1300 motor now if everything went perfectly..... Proving that you don't have to join the big bore club to do ok............
As you pointed out though Colin really started to come good when Powertec reworked his 1550cc engine, which I believe was originally built elsewhere to a less than optimum standard...... Then Gary had his motor done out to 1585cc making his car so fast it nearly ripped the stickers off mine when it came past, then Paul, then JW joined the club, I just don't see how this can be stopped now..... Especially as its makes good business sense for the Radical / Powertec family, if it were my business I don't think I would be discouraging customers away from the route a lot of us have been / are heading down......
However, can I add that my Mistral built engine including buying the donor original Busa cost me about half the price of a full house 1585cc motor & has propelled me into the top three in every qualifying session thus far in the club cup rounds & onto four 2nd places, all in the dry so pretty much on merit alone. I am actually starting to think that it may be possible to win at certain tracks with the 1300 motor now if everything went perfectly..... Proving that you don't have to join the big bore club to do ok............
Edited by dsl2 on Tuesday 22 September 22:01
So presumably the problem is about the invitation class getting away as it were? I presume that putting it into the UK cup would take the heart out of the club cup?
I know it's a bit measily, but it makes running with 1100cc all a bit silly. We may have others to race with, or crash into if Mark's about
, but we'll be soooooo far off the pace.
Bert
I know it's a bit measily, but it makes running with 1100cc all a bit silly. We may have others to race with, or crash into if Mark's about
, but we'll be soooooo far off the pace.Bert
it would narrow the gap between the slowest cars and the fastest cars. i think there would be an adjustment period whilst there was a shuffle round.
the invitation thing has come about by economic necessity race series understandably want as many cars in the race as possible. by limiting the capacity and ecu it brings the older cars back into contention ergo more cars on the grid.
the invitation thing has come about by economic necessity race series understandably want as many cars in the race as possible. by limiting the capacity and ecu it brings the older cars back into contention ergo more cars on the grid.
Its also worth mentioning from what I have had said to me that despite the odd difference in engine size /performance the racing at the front of the field has been much closer / better / more exciting to watch this season than the last few years, which is surely a good thing for the series going forward........
I'd happily revert to a 1300cc or 1500cc standard lump as long as everyone else did and agree with everything thats been posted to a point, but racing in both Club and UK cup, what do you do? Radical/Powertech would have to give me a big cheque back, and then we would compremise our UK Cup ambtions. Good discussion though, I agree with Darren, as a business Powertech must be loving this, Happy days.
Hey its just a discussion there are no rights and wrongs. Being pro active if the concensus of the forum is that it might be a good idea to have sealed and fixed engines/ecu i would be happy to arrange a meeting with phil at radical to discuss it on our ( the grid ) behalf, if the genral opinion is that its all ok as it is then lets rock and roll and may the man/woman or person of non specific gender with the biggest most expensive engine in the lightest car win. PS just wathched the croft race on tv excellent!
its an idea, few saftey concerns though in that the speed differential between the invitation and tuned cars vs the clusports etc is so great so there is a potential accident there. But i think they do it in karts dont they?.
what about combine the tuned and invitation class call it the unlimited class. Decal the cars accordingly so the public can see what is going on.
I am just trying to imagine that i switch on the tv to watch the grand prix and they say guess what, this week we have allowed 5 cars in with bigger engines. They will win of course but they are not in the championship so ignore them.
Please dont get me wrong i am not anti the bigger engines at all ( i have a 1500cc car!)but i think after a year or so (and remeber the goal post havent finished moving yet) the unrestricted entrants should be formalised in a class and a cap put on engine size. something that will have to be done eventually.
If someone comes up with a 2 litre hayabusa will that be ok to race? In the few short years that i have been racing Jonathan wright has gone from a 1300 to a tuned 1300 to a 1500 to a 1585. I think we all get sucked along because we want to win. But consider if his or a similar engine goes bang in a big and final way that person is going to have to find £20,000 + to replace it. Now put that into context alongside the cost of a years your (club)racing budget.
what about combine the tuned and invitation class call it the unlimited class. Decal the cars accordingly so the public can see what is going on.
I am just trying to imagine that i switch on the tv to watch the grand prix and they say guess what, this week we have allowed 5 cars in with bigger engines. They will win of course but they are not in the championship so ignore them.
Please dont get me wrong i am not anti the bigger engines at all ( i have a 1500cc car!)but i think after a year or so (and remeber the goal post havent finished moving yet) the unrestricted entrants should be formalised in a class and a cap put on engine size. something that will have to be done eventually.
If someone comes up with a 2 litre hayabusa will that be ok to race? In the few short years that i have been racing Jonathan wright has gone from a 1300 to a tuned 1300 to a 1500 to a 1585. I think we all get sucked along because we want to win. But consider if his or a similar engine goes bang in a big and final way that person is going to have to find £20,000 + to replace it. Now put that into context alongside the cost of a years your (club)racing budget.
Gary , having tried that a number of times this year I can say it does add to the excite level somewhat!
However, if ALL the tuned cars started at the back I recon it would be carnage as we all tried to shoot past 12 cars on the way to the first corner.
It could work well & make for a very entertaining race if all the tuned cars were delayed on the grid for say 10/15 seconds after the rest had departed, but doubt that's either possible or allowable?
However, if ALL the tuned cars started at the back I recon it would be carnage as we all tried to shoot past 12 cars on the way to the first corner.
It could work well & make for a very entertaining race if all the tuned cars were delayed on the grid for say 10/15 seconds after the rest had departed, but doubt that's either possible or allowable?
barryv12 said:
But i think they do it in karts dont they?.
The situation is a little different because all classes have heats that contribute towards the final. Heats are gridded in a weighted order so you get a front, mid and rear grid position to start from. Results from heats determine your position on the grid in the final. Another difference is everyones in broadly similar powered karts and often using identical engines so there's no massive difference in speed, all down to driver ability which rather takes you back to the start of the post!
Good post by the way, as a lowly 1200 SR4 driver (paying for racing from a wage I might add!) the club cup as it is now holds little appeal and places like Bikesports or BESCR are more of a draw to me, both could do with greater numbers as covered well elsewhere. Look back 12 months or so and it was more appealing with a mixture of Radical's models with what was then a standard-ish set of motors in them.
Barry, I am not sure what the issue is, I guess you pay's your money and makes your choice - If you want to keep your costs down you can race in Club Sport class, Biduro Class or SR3 Class where the engines are sealed and controlled. you can still win in your class - if you are good enough...
Or is it that you want to win outright? If this is the case the each class has an equal claim to lmit the rules to allow them the chance to be outright winners by limiting engine capacity to their particular capacity would that be a good idea?
BTW F1 is not a good analogy as the KERS cars with 50+ BHP do not always win...
Simon
Or is it that you want to win outright? If this is the case the each class has an equal claim to lmit the rules to allow them the chance to be outright winners by limiting engine capacity to their particular capacity would that be a good idea?
BTW F1 is not a good analogy as the KERS cars with 50+ BHP do not always win...
Simon
barryv12 said:
its an idea, few saftey concerns though in that the speed differential between the invitation and tuned cars vs the clusports etc is so great so there is a potential accident there. But i think they do it in karts dont they?.
The current series with the largest speed differential is probably the Special GT series at Combe. My first ever race I was in a Caterham and Tony Sinclair was attempting to go sub 1 min in his Jade. I think there was probably a 70 mph differential through folly! 
The difficulty with running any series comes when the rules *allow* interpretation or scope to improve your car legally. This is then partly down to your chequebook and partly down to inginuity. Unless you move to a very tightly policed series, like many of the Caterham series, where every part virtually is restricted, I believe it is very hard not to have obvious 'winners' and 'losers' in each class.
If you police the classes too tightly, you run the risk of having too many classes in a single race, each with only a handful of competitors. This doesn't offer a great racing opportunity in my eyes.
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