More Newbie Questions
Discussion
Hi,
Some more newbie questions
Having picked the car up at the weekend and spending the rest of the time messing about with it I have quite a few questions!
The car came with matador slicks on the car in the following sizes Front 185/530/R13 Rear 210/560/R13, however the car has not been used in well over a year and the previous owner did not know how long the tyres had been on when he bought it. They feel very hard! Supplied with the car not on rim were some Avon tyres in the following sizes Front 6.5/21/R13 Rear 8.2/22/R13 and the car has allegedly been set up for these but the previous owner did not know whether these were cross ply or radial can anybody help on this?
What is usually run on the clubsports (if it makes any difference my clubsport has a rear wing and updated bodywork to look like a small SR4) tyre size wise as the Avon’s do feel a little on the hard side and am thinking of getting some part worn tyres from this season to do some track days in October.
The track days I am planning on doing are Rockingham and Oulton park what sprocket would you advise for these circuits and is the number of teeth clearly stated on the sprocket? (I have forgotten to check this)
The plan is to race it next year however what series cater for clubsports with non radical bodywork and a rear wing. It does have the ZZ1100 engine however this was built by extreme engines.
Bearing this in mind the harnesses are out of date at the moment they are radical harnesses which are best to replace these with and where from?
The fire extinguisher is also out of date and looks as though it was serviced in 2003 to last till 2006 and has not since been serviced. It is a fire fighters extinguisher will I be able to get this serviced or will I have to buy a new extinguisher?
How do you jack the car up do you use air jacks or an alternative? If you use and alternative what is it and where are the jacking points?
The last question I have is again to do with racing and regulations the car is presently not fitted with reverse however there is a button on the dash and bikesports require the car to have reverse which is the best system to use? How does it work? Where can I buy it from and how much will it cost?
Thanks and Regards
Ross
Some more newbie questions
Having picked the car up at the weekend and spending the rest of the time messing about with it I have quite a few questions!
The car came with matador slicks on the car in the following sizes Front 185/530/R13 Rear 210/560/R13, however the car has not been used in well over a year and the previous owner did not know how long the tyres had been on when he bought it. They feel very hard! Supplied with the car not on rim were some Avon tyres in the following sizes Front 6.5/21/R13 Rear 8.2/22/R13 and the car has allegedly been set up for these but the previous owner did not know whether these were cross ply or radial can anybody help on this?
What is usually run on the clubsports (if it makes any difference my clubsport has a rear wing and updated bodywork to look like a small SR4) tyre size wise as the Avon’s do feel a little on the hard side and am thinking of getting some part worn tyres from this season to do some track days in October.
The track days I am planning on doing are Rockingham and Oulton park what sprocket would you advise for these circuits and is the number of teeth clearly stated on the sprocket? (I have forgotten to check this)
The plan is to race it next year however what series cater for clubsports with non radical bodywork and a rear wing. It does have the ZZ1100 engine however this was built by extreme engines.
Bearing this in mind the harnesses are out of date at the moment they are radical harnesses which are best to replace these with and where from?
The fire extinguisher is also out of date and looks as though it was serviced in 2003 to last till 2006 and has not since been serviced. It is a fire fighters extinguisher will I be able to get this serviced or will I have to buy a new extinguisher?
How do you jack the car up do you use air jacks or an alternative? If you use and alternative what is it and where are the jacking points?
The last question I have is again to do with racing and regulations the car is presently not fitted with reverse however there is a button on the dash and bikesports require the car to have reverse which is the best system to use? How does it work? Where can I buy it from and how much will it cost?
Thanks and Regards
Ross
Hi Ross, welcome to the world of Radicals!
Tyres - I think I am right in saying that the Matadors are Radials, the Avons are definitely Cross-Ply. The Clubsport was originally set up for the Cross-Ply Tyres, and I believe that unless you have the adjustable wishbones it is difficult to get enough camber on the wheels to get the Radials to work properly.
The bodywork you describe is actually a Prosport conversion, with the rear wing, although the "real" Prosport ran with a 1300 Hyabusa engine. So that as well as having the Extreme engine rebuild excludes you from racing in any of the Radical Club Cup races, but you can race in either BESCR, or 750mc events (and I am sure others as well such as SEMSEC) Running with the wing and an 1100 engine does leave the car a little underpowered particularly on big circuits like Snetterton, as you have all of the drag associated with the wing, but not quite enough grunt to overcome it.
With respect to the sprockets, they are marked with the number of teeth, and there is a table on the Radical website somewhere giving the recommended sprocket for each circuit.
As for the reverse gear, this was an electric motor coupled to the front sprocket, which was notoriously unreliable, and often broke after a few seconds of use. Replacements are available from Radical, but they are very expensive.
Whatever you chose to do with the car I am sure it will give you some excellent fun and thrills, beware though it is a very habit forming addiction often leading to an escalation in usage until you are craving a PR06 to satisfy those pangs of adreneline.
Gary
Tyres - I think I am right in saying that the Matadors are Radials, the Avons are definitely Cross-Ply. The Clubsport was originally set up for the Cross-Ply Tyres, and I believe that unless you have the adjustable wishbones it is difficult to get enough camber on the wheels to get the Radials to work properly.
The bodywork you describe is actually a Prosport conversion, with the rear wing, although the "real" Prosport ran with a 1300 Hyabusa engine. So that as well as having the Extreme engine rebuild excludes you from racing in any of the Radical Club Cup races, but you can race in either BESCR, or 750mc events (and I am sure others as well such as SEMSEC) Running with the wing and an 1100 engine does leave the car a little underpowered particularly on big circuits like Snetterton, as you have all of the drag associated with the wing, but not quite enough grunt to overcome it.
With respect to the sprockets, they are marked with the number of teeth, and there is a table on the Radical website somewhere giving the recommended sprocket for each circuit.
As for the reverse gear, this was an electric motor coupled to the front sprocket, which was notoriously unreliable, and often broke after a few seconds of use. Replacements are available from Radical, but they are very expensive.
Whatever you chose to do with the car I am sure it will give you some excellent fun and thrills, beware though it is a very habit forming addiction often leading to an escalation in usage until you are craving a PR06 to satisfy those pangs of adreneline.
Gary
Ross_328i_sport said:
How do you jack the car up do you use air jacks or an alternative? If you use and alternative what is it and where are the jacking points?
Air jacks - No, as I only do hills and sprints so I stripped the air jacks out of my Prosport (there weren't any in my Clubsport). Get youself a single seater style quick-lift jack. They can be sourced second hand from about forty / fifty quid or so. Howeverif you really want air jacks (and have the mounting points fitted) give me a PM as mine are packaged up ready for an eBay sale
Jacking points - At the rear you should see a vertical tube sticking through the rear diffuser/undertray (if fitted), and at the front (with bodywork off) I jack it up just under the front section of the chassis/spaceframe -just in front of the pedals.
Cheers
JP
Ross_328i_sport said:
Hi,
Some more newbie questions
Having picked the car up at the weekend and spending the rest of the time messing about with it I have quite a few questions!
Congratulations, you won't regret it...Some more newbie questions
Having picked the car up at the weekend and spending the rest of the time messing about with it I have quite a few questions!
Ross_328i_sport said:
The car came with matador slicks on the car in the following sizes Front 185/530/R13 Rear 210/560/R13, however the car has not been used in well over a year and the previous owner did not know how long the tyres had been on when he bought it. They feel very hard! Supplied with the car not on rim were some Avon tyres in the following sizes Front 6.5/21/R13 Rear 8.2/22/R13 and the car has allegedly been set up for these but the previous owner did not know whether these were cross ply or radial can anybody help on this?
RobC is your man on Avon's, I believe they are crossply, quite a difference in camber required I think.Ross_328i_sport said:
What is usually run on the clubsports (if it makes any difference my clubsport has a rear wing and updated bodywork to look like a small SR4) tyre size wise as the Avon’s do feel a little on the hard side and am thinking of getting some part worn tyres from this season to do some track days in October.
As Radical supply Dunlop radials and use them in their race series that is probably the most frequently used tyre. You can also get Michelins and Yokohamas to fit.Ross_328i_sport said:
Bearing this in mind the harnesses are out of date at the moment they are radical harnesses which are best to replace these with and where from?
I've been down this route on my SR4. Go to Radical direct if you don't mind paying their prices or talk to either Willans or Sabelt and see if they will custom make you one - the fittings aren't standard parts as fitted to their off the shelf harnesses. It is possible that doesn't apply to Clubsports but I suspect they will be the same as the SR4.Ross_328i_sport said:
The fire extinguisher is also out of date and looks as though it was serviced in 2003 to last till 2006 and has not since been serviced. It is a fire fighters extinguisher will I be able to get this serviced or will I have to buy a new extinguisher?
Should be able to have this refilled, I used Lanan racing to do this who are a good bunch and used to working on Radicals. http://www.lananracing.com/I think most of the other questions have already been answered. Good luck, great fun as you will soon find.
Nick
With your bodywork, it'll be interesting to see how it drives. My clubsport had a shortened prosport wing added at the back, but no extra aero at the front. That made it pretty much impossible to loosen the back end and gave understeer everywhere (well in corners anyway!).
I got rid of the rear wing to get back to standard clubsport aero and it is much nicer to drive and much better balanced.
If yours has proper aero at the front it should be ok.
Bert
I got rid of the rear wing to get back to standard clubsport aero and it is much nicer to drive and much better balanced.
If yours has proper aero at the front it should be ok.
Bert
Hi Ross,
We can supply you with the correct Sabelt harness for £150.
We can also service and validate your extinguisher. Thanks Nick.
Give me a call if we can help
Graham
www.lananracing.com
We can supply you with the correct Sabelt harness for £150.
We can also service and validate your extinguisher. Thanks Nick.
Give me a call if we can help
Graham
www.lananracing.com
Tyres: What rim sizes have you got? Typically CS widths are 6/7 inch (F) and 8/9 inch (R), so quite a wealth of fitment options from the sources already quoted. Selection is down to personal choice / championship regs. I’ve enjoyed both Avon crossplys and Dunlop radials.
Don’t bother with part worn tyres or anything unknown even for learning the car. You could spend ages addressing all sorts of crap tyre/geometry nasties detracting from your overall enjoyment. Just get a nice fresh middle compound, set the car up properly for them and learn/enjoy the car from a nice known baseline; I’m sure one of us can give you a quick spec sheet to help there.
Radials run a fair bit of –ve camber (3-4 deg) whereas the crossplys much less (0-1 deg max). As per Gary’s note, shorter top w/bones are typically needed to obtain the higher -ve cambers for the radials (they are shorter by about 10mm).
Gear chart: http://www.radicalsportscars.com/about/racing/gear...
Harnesses: Most (if not all) 5/6-point single seater harnesses will have the correct belt lengths and the mountings are common. Just confirming the mountings types and belts lengths with any of the regular outlets will make sure you the right one. Personal choice after that.
Bodywork: your post suggests something a little different to just having a Prosport wing bolted on? You might want to check spring ratings if you de-wing it.
Engine: If you want to race in the RCC, Radical/Powertec will insist on them sealing it after a quick vehicle dyno to make sure it’s nothing trick. Cost = £250. Other series don’t require this.
Reverse: I stand corrected, but I have never seen a CS reversing. Unless it’s having an accident.
Don’t bother with part worn tyres or anything unknown even for learning the car. You could spend ages addressing all sorts of crap tyre/geometry nasties detracting from your overall enjoyment. Just get a nice fresh middle compound, set the car up properly for them and learn/enjoy the car from a nice known baseline; I’m sure one of us can give you a quick spec sheet to help there.
Radials run a fair bit of –ve camber (3-4 deg) whereas the crossplys much less (0-1 deg max). As per Gary’s note, shorter top w/bones are typically needed to obtain the higher -ve cambers for the radials (they are shorter by about 10mm).
Gear chart: http://www.radicalsportscars.com/about/racing/gear...
Harnesses: Most (if not all) 5/6-point single seater harnesses will have the correct belt lengths and the mountings are common. Just confirming the mountings types and belts lengths with any of the regular outlets will make sure you the right one. Personal choice after that.
Bodywork: your post suggests something a little different to just having a Prosport wing bolted on? You might want to check spring ratings if you de-wing it.
Engine: If you want to race in the RCC, Radical/Powertec will insist on them sealing it after a quick vehicle dyno to make sure it’s nothing trick. Cost = £250. Other series don’t require this.
Reverse: I stand corrected, but I have never seen a CS reversing. Unless it’s having an accident.
Hi Ross
Something Mark just said reminded me that your opener mentioned looking like a small SR4, then I saw Extreme engined, then I remember seeing something sounding rather alike being advertised a short time ago. Is it one of these ? >
http://extremeengines.com/shop/20/index.htm
Something Mark just said reminded me that your opener mentioned looking like a small SR4, then I saw Extreme engined, then I remember seeing something sounding rather alike being advertised a short time ago. Is it one of these ? >
http://extremeengines.com/shop/20/index.htm
splitpin said:
Hi Ross
Something Mark just said reminded me that your opener mentioned looking like a small SR4, then I saw Extreme engined, then I remember seeing something sounding rather alike being advertised a short time ago. Is it one of these ? >
http://extremeengines.com/shop/20/index.htm
Yes that is the actual car! So the bodywork is slightly different from that of the prosport but does have the high downforce on the front!Something Mark just said reminded me that your opener mentioned looking like a small SR4, then I saw Extreme engined, then I remember seeing something sounding rather alike being advertised a short time ago. Is it one of these ? >
http://extremeengines.com/shop/20/index.htm
Looking at all of the championships the car does need to move backwards however the general opinion is if is very unreliable! How do those that race overcome this and is there a cheaper alternative to buying from Radical?
Yes I have looked at the sprocket tonight and it is fitted with a 48T sprocket and a 16T pinion.
mabbott said:
Air jacks - No, as I only do hills and sprints so I stripped the air jacks out of my Prosport (there weren't any in my Clubsport). Get yourself a single seater style quick-lift jack. They can be sourced second hand from about forty / fifty quid or so. However if you really want air jacks (and have the mounting points fitted) give me a PM as mine are packaged up ready for an eBay sale
Thanks Stiglet but at the moment I will just be using a quick lift jack!Thanks Nick997 for the advice will speak to Ianan tomorrow.
BertBert will let you know how my first track day goes with the car how it is. I plan on doing Teesside 25th and Oulton 30th of September.
mabbott said:
Tyres: What rim sizes have you got? Typically CS widths are 6/7 inch (F) and 8/9 inch (R), so quite a wealth of fitment options from the sources already quoted. Selection is down to personal choice / championship regs. I’ve enjoyed both Avon crossplys and Dunlop radials.
The rears are 9" the fronts I still need to measure.mabbott said:
vvvvv
Radials run a fair bit of –ve camber (3-4 deg) whereas the crossplys much less (0-1 deg max). As per Gary’s note, shorter top w/bones are typically needed to obtain the higher -ve cambers for the radials (they are shorter by about 10mm).
Will take a photograph and post up of existing wishbones to identify which items I have.Radials run a fair bit of –ve camber (3-4 deg) whereas the crossplys much less (0-1 deg max). As per Gary’s note, shorter top w/bones are typically needed to obtain the higher -ve cambers for the radials (they are shorter by about 10mm).
mabbott said:
Thanks I have been looking for that but could not find it. Note must try harder!mabbott said:
Bodywork: your post suggests something a little different to just having a Prosport wing bolted on? You might want to check spring ratings if you de-wing it.
Yes it is slightly different see link in splitpins reply.mabbott said:
Engine: If you want to race in the RCC, Radical/Powertec will insist on them sealing it after a quick vehicle dyno to make sure it’s nothing trick. Cost = £250. Other series don’t require this.
I am not bothered as to which championship it is more the racing another competitor and value for money. Leaning towards bescr at the moment.mabbott said:
Reverse: I stand corrected, but I have never seen a CS reversing. Unless it’s having an accident.
Most race series regulation require the car to beable to move in a backwards direction for at least 3 meters and being capable of moving over an obstacle 40mm x 40mm I think.I also have a couple more questions: -
Which oil do you use to lubricate the chain?
How big is the fuel tank in the clubsport and how do you know how much you have in it?
Thanks and Regards
Ross
Hi Ross
Thinking about changing my handle to Sherlock (and that's before I re-re-read your post and noticed "non radical bodywork")
It's helped clarify a few things > I doubt there's a cat in hell's chance of competing in the RCC (there's plenty of other options ............ by the way, we've been asked not to bring in BESCR on here) and that presumably no-one is going to be able to help you much on aero, as no-one is going to know where the starting point is. Personally, I quite like that bodywork (that said I am equally smitten by the honest back to basic lines of the Clubsport) but I have no idea whether all those vents etc are aero and/or simply aesthetic ........... or even mainly to avoid getting sued for copyright infringement; if just the latter, then wow, were they playing it safe.
On the reverse, seems to me that people tend to make it work (look like it works) and then hope to hell that they never have to prove it/use it. Use it and it'll break PDQ seems to be the message. There'll be umpteen reasons why I'm wrong, but I think the requirement for a reverse on a lightweight open topped racecar is utter nonsense.
As presumably it's got foam, you could fill it up and then strap on a battery and pump it all out but I'd put a call into Radical; I'm sure they'll be able to tell you the size of the tank - assuming that hasn't been 'Extremed' of course.
I use Silkolene Titanium Gel on our chain, which I think is one of the best, but it can make a bit of a mess if you want to slap it on rapidly all over and forget. With the one we use (sort of a white cream rather like you get on some new chains), you need to wipe off any excess. To avoid this wiping down palaver, others use clear aerosols from such as Wurth.
If the rears are 9s, the fronts should be 7s.
Life will be just fine without air jacks; location as advised i.e middle of platform onto line of lots of rivets where the floor panels go onto a cross chassis rail; take the front off; once you've found it and got it right, tape on QL and corresponding on tow eye, then you'll be able to do it 'blind' i.e. with the bodywork on; just line up the tape markers. The QL gets both ends high enough to get a slab underneath, then you can use a conventional trolley jack to get it onto axle stands.
Thinking about changing my handle to Sherlock (and that's before I re-re-read your post and noticed "non radical bodywork")
It's helped clarify a few things > I doubt there's a cat in hell's chance of competing in the RCC (there's plenty of other options ............ by the way, we've been asked not to bring in BESCR on here) and that presumably no-one is going to be able to help you much on aero, as no-one is going to know where the starting point is. Personally, I quite like that bodywork (that said I am equally smitten by the honest back to basic lines of the Clubsport) but I have no idea whether all those vents etc are aero and/or simply aesthetic ........... or even mainly to avoid getting sued for copyright infringement; if just the latter, then wow, were they playing it safe.
On the reverse, seems to me that people tend to make it work (look like it works) and then hope to hell that they never have to prove it/use it. Use it and it'll break PDQ seems to be the message. There'll be umpteen reasons why I'm wrong, but I think the requirement for a reverse on a lightweight open topped racecar is utter nonsense.
As presumably it's got foam, you could fill it up and then strap on a battery and pump it all out but I'd put a call into Radical; I'm sure they'll be able to tell you the size of the tank - assuming that hasn't been 'Extremed' of course.
I use Silkolene Titanium Gel on our chain, which I think is one of the best, but it can make a bit of a mess if you want to slap it on rapidly all over and forget. With the one we use (sort of a white cream rather like you get on some new chains), you need to wipe off any excess. To avoid this wiping down palaver, others use clear aerosols from such as Wurth.
If the rears are 9s, the fronts should be 7s.
Life will be just fine without air jacks; location as advised i.e middle of platform onto line of lots of rivets where the floor panels go onto a cross chassis rail; take the front off; once you've found it and got it right, tape on QL and corresponding on tow eye, then you'll be able to do it 'blind' i.e. with the bodywork on; just line up the tape markers. The QL gets both ends high enough to get a slab underneath, then you can use a conventional trolley jack to get it onto axle stands.
Edited by splitpin on Wednesday 16th September 15:17
Hi Ross,
Congratulations on your new car, I ran the exact same Bodywork on my Prosport and had lots of involvement in the development (pm me if you don't want to bore everyone with the details!). My car has been sold on & is busy doing well in the semsec races, pictures are on the semsec site (race gallery) if you want to see how it ended up looking.
Spring rates should be around 300 to 400F & 450 to 600R depending on set up. The aero works well as ideas & input was from some very well known race car builders. I don't believe your car has the air jack points as it started life as a Clubsport, so best to stick to quick lift jacks, they are less trouble & you don't really want to add weight as reducing the overall car weight was a priority in the bodywork design!
Fuel tank will probably be 44Lts, most racers measure fuel in & fuel out using the fuel line connector & a length of hose. Consumption will be in the range of .7 to 1 litres per min. depending on the circuit etc...
Congratulations on your new car, I ran the exact same Bodywork on my Prosport and had lots of involvement in the development (pm me if you don't want to bore everyone with the details!). My car has been sold on & is busy doing well in the semsec races, pictures are on the semsec site (race gallery) if you want to see how it ended up looking.
Spring rates should be around 300 to 400F & 450 to 600R depending on set up. The aero works well as ideas & input was from some very well known race car builders. I don't believe your car has the air jack points as it started life as a Clubsport, so best to stick to quick lift jacks, they are less trouble & you don't really want to add weight as reducing the overall car weight was a priority in the bodywork design!
Fuel tank will probably be 44Lts, most racers measure fuel in & fuel out using the fuel line connector & a length of hose. Consumption will be in the range of .7 to 1 litres per min. depending on the circuit etc...
Ross_328i_sport said:
Thanks for the answers gents.
I have booked two trackdays for the end of september so will probably have a load more question.
Where do you buy the chain oil from?
Ross
You'll shortly be able to pick that sort of stuff up from ROC - meantime, I'll get your address from Will and post you a can FOC - regard it as a welcome gift from ROC to a new ROC Member & Radical Owner.I have booked two trackdays for the end of september so will probably have a load more question.
Where do you buy the chain oil from?
Ross
Cheers Mate.
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