ZZR1100 to ZX14 Conversion
Discussion
Anyone able to provide info as to how difficult the change over is?
I currently run a Powertec dry sump on the 1100 would this swap over? I am assuming the ZX14 is injected so presumably a swirl pot, high pressure pump etc is required? Exhaust similar or all new required? Mounts?
Any info gratefully received, just weighing up options at the moment.
Edited as my typing, spelling and grammar are clearly appalling first thing in the morning
I currently run a Powertec dry sump on the 1100 would this swap over? I am assuming the ZX14 is injected so presumably a swirl pot, high pressure pump etc is required? Exhaust similar or all new required? Mounts?
Any info gratefully received, just weighing up options at the moment.
Edited as my typing, spelling and grammar are clearly appalling first thing in the morning
Edited by rustybin on Tuesday 28th July 11:07
Good move Richard.
Angus did it last year so should be along in a mo to tell you how (easy it was) to do it. After the upgrade, his car seems to go off the line (which is all I see of it) like sh*t off a shovel. We haven't met up much this year, but a couple of weeks ago at Shelsley he was consistently 0.1 secs faster than me over the first 64' and about the same time to the Kennel split. I know I had to be somewhat circumspect as my clutch was beaking up and I had handling problems, but my start times and Kennel splits that day were in line with my best.
I have long held the view that a big engined, ground effects Clubsport would be a competitive proposition particularly on the tighter hills. PM me if you want to discuss more.
Angus did it last year so should be along in a mo to tell you how (easy it was) to do it. After the upgrade, his car seems to go off the line (which is all I see of it) like sh*t off a shovel. We haven't met up much this year, but a couple of weeks ago at Shelsley he was consistently 0.1 secs faster than me over the first 64' and about the same time to the Kennel split. I know I had to be somewhat circumspect as my clutch was beaking up and I had handling problems, but my start times and Kennel splits that day were in line with my best.
I have long held the view that a big engined, ground effects Clubsport would be a competitive proposition particularly on the tighter hills. PM me if you want to discuss more.
Per previous post, Angus or Douglas (miniciti) should be along in a minute - but meantime here's the link to a previous thread and an informative post by the latter on the conversion
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Cheers
JP
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Cheers
JP
As JP mentioned, I did the conversion to Angus's Clubsport.
There are several options for fuel pumps, the standard ZX14 in-tank pump does not require a return line but would be tricky to mount in a Radical tank.
We opted for a Sytec injection pump and added an adjustable pressure valve with return line to our extra small hillclimb fuel tank.
You could use a low pressure pump feeding a swirl pot feeding the high pressure pump and regulator with return.
I adapted a set of zzr1100 Radical exhaust headers and secondaries- All the pipes needed some adjustment with the right hand pipes taking a substantial detour to clear the water pipes which are on the opposite side to the ZZR1100 engine's.
When the installation was done no one made a dry sump or shallower billet sump for the ZX14.
Now AB Performance (Andy Bates) http://www.abperformance.co.uk manufactures a billet swing pick-up sump for the ZX14.
Muzzy's manufacture a dry sump for the ZX14.
Either of these should enable you to get the engine mounted fairly low in the chassis.
All new engine mounts are required.
The Radical's electric reverse will not fit as the sprocket cover needs to remain in place for the speed sensor to pick up pulses from the rotor on the sprocket nut.
If the speed sensor is not connected and receiving pulses the engine's ecu limits engine revs to about 9500 rpm.
With the gearing used on Radicals (as opposed to the original bike) the 6th gear speed limiter cuts in too soon so you need some extra circuitry to overcome this [we used a Healtech speedo healer].
If you need any further information PM me.
Doug
There are several options for fuel pumps, the standard ZX14 in-tank pump does not require a return line but would be tricky to mount in a Radical tank.
We opted for a Sytec injection pump and added an adjustable pressure valve with return line to our extra small hillclimb fuel tank.
You could use a low pressure pump feeding a swirl pot feeding the high pressure pump and regulator with return.
I adapted a set of zzr1100 Radical exhaust headers and secondaries- All the pipes needed some adjustment with the right hand pipes taking a substantial detour to clear the water pipes which are on the opposite side to the ZZR1100 engine's.
When the installation was done no one made a dry sump or shallower billet sump for the ZX14.
Now AB Performance (Andy Bates) http://www.abperformance.co.uk manufactures a billet swing pick-up sump for the ZX14.
Muzzy's manufacture a dry sump for the ZX14.
Either of these should enable you to get the engine mounted fairly low in the chassis.
All new engine mounts are required.
The Radical's electric reverse will not fit as the sprocket cover needs to remain in place for the speed sensor to pick up pulses from the rotor on the sprocket nut.
If the speed sensor is not connected and receiving pulses the engine's ecu limits engine revs to about 9500 rpm.
With the gearing used on Radicals (as opposed to the original bike) the 6th gear speed limiter cuts in too soon so you need some extra circuitry to overcome this [we used a Healtech speedo healer].
If you need any further information PM me.
Doug
Just realised I never finished the thread JP linked to.
TTS measured the car at 160BHP at the wheels, (guestimate that is exactly right at 187ish for a completely standard engine) which I think is good given the modified exhaust and lack of airbox.
The engine is a dream to drive with all that torque transforming the performance on the hills and able to pull big gears at high speeds on the longer sprints. Don't know what the zzr1100 powertech actually put out, but nothing like the quoted figures!
Well worth the effort (ok Minitici's effort).
Cheers,
Angus
TTS measured the car at 160BHP at the wheels, (guestimate that is exactly right at 187ish for a completely standard engine) which I think is good given the modified exhaust and lack of airbox.
The engine is a dream to drive with all that torque transforming the performance on the hills and able to pull big gears at high speeds on the longer sprints. Don't know what the zzr1100 powertech actually put out, but nothing like the quoted figures!
Well worth the effort (ok Minitici's effort).
Cheers,
Angus
Edited by SportsLibre on Tuesday 28th July 20:44
Blimey, not just Angus, but the whole tartan mafia appears. Prescience was always my strong suit.........................
Tempered, of couse, by the odd infelicity of language. So be assured, dear reader, that at no time did my clutch beak up as previously suggested.
My only defence is inattention or the onset of vascular dementia. Fortunately, if it is the latter, I probably won't remember what it is that I got wrong.
You may also be interested, Richard, in Trevor's "Clubsport Engines" thread qv for some numbers to compare with Angus's.
L
Tempered, of couse, by the odd infelicity of language. So be assured, dear reader, that at no time did my clutch beak up as previously suggested.
My only defence is inattention or the onset of vascular dementia. Fortunately, if it is the latter, I probably won't remember what it is that I got wrong.
You may also be interested, Richard, in Trevor's "Clubsport Engines" thread qv for some numbers to compare with Angus's.
L
Before sailing forth with a bigger 'alternative manufacturer' base engine conversion, perhaps just worth bearing this in mind? >
A ZZR 1400 is actually 1352cc
A '2009' (K8) Hayabusa is actually 1340cc
Word on the street (from the boys who still have big enough round things to unleash the beast through a tiny little contact patch - mine have now shrunk to the point where this is no longer tenable!) is that they are completely neck and neck upto about 6K, then the Busa starts to pull an advantage that becomes compelling at 8K and is never relinquished. Of particular relevance in terms of where most Radicals spend their time in terms of the power band?
Then (as far as the tuned class is concerned), factor in the availability of Busa tuning parts compared to those for the ZZR?
If I wanted a lot of lower band grunt, I'd be having a good look at the 1679cc 09 VMax engine ............ and facing up to even more conversion difficulties ............ and getting the beggar to rev quite a bit more.
A ZZR 1400 is actually 1352cc
A '2009' (K8) Hayabusa is actually 1340cc
Word on the street (from the boys who still have big enough round things to unleash the beast through a tiny little contact patch - mine have now shrunk to the point where this is no longer tenable!) is that they are completely neck and neck upto about 6K, then the Busa starts to pull an advantage that becomes compelling at 8K and is never relinquished. Of particular relevance in terms of where most Radicals spend their time in terms of the power band?
Then (as far as the tuned class is concerned), factor in the availability of Busa tuning parts compared to those for the ZZR?
If I wanted a lot of lower band grunt, I'd be having a good look at the 1679cc 09 VMax engine ............ and facing up to even more conversion difficulties ............ and getting the beggar to rev quite a bit more.
Edited by splitpin on Wednesday 29th July 21:28
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