Mallory Bikesports
Discussion
Had a great days racing at Mallory in the Bikesports series today. Weather was fantastic - managed to burn my head which is not bad for April!
Grid was a bit smaller than is ideal but there was some fairly close racing. Darren Luke (Pro6 - 40kg lighter than my sr4 so nothing to do with my lack of driving ability....)won both 28 minute races, I came in 2nd in both races, but had the lead a couple of times in the second race.
I'm just going to go and have a neck collar fitted - 2*28 minutes laps of Mallory is tough on your neck as you go around gerrards for the 65th time!!
Jon
Grid was a bit smaller than is ideal but there was some fairly close racing. Darren Luke (Pro6 - 40kg lighter than my sr4 so nothing to do with my lack of driving ability....)won both 28 minute races, I came in 2nd in both races, but had the lead a couple of times in the second race.
I'm just going to go and have a neck collar fitted - 2*28 minutes laps of Mallory is tough on your neck as you go around gerrards for the 65th time!!
Jon
Hi all,
Was a great day and enjoyed my first race(s) of the year.
Just need a few more ponies under my right foot for next time!
Good, friendly atmosphere.
Hopefully convince the college to book another one for later in the year.
Cheers
Josh
(Will sort your dosh out ASAP Jon - thanks for getting us out of the s
t)
Was a great day and enjoyed my first race(s) of the year.
Just need a few more ponies under my right foot for next time!
Good, friendly atmosphere.
Hopefully convince the college to book another one for later in the year.
Cheers
Josh
(Will sort your dosh out ASAP Jon - thanks for getting us out of the s
t)Like wise was a good day apart from my wiring problems!!! Gutted
Think Jonathan was the days saviour really with the hole drive shaft scenario so a big thanks and I two will be in touch soon.
The only thing I will say is that I still think there are some issues that we need to talk about regarding the scrutineers views on what our cars are allowed to be like to conform to the regulations for the championship.
One of the scrutineers said my wing was too high which is strange because the stay and the wing are standard radical parts and also something about the vent behind the front wheels on the SR4 side pod being illegal, which is also a standard Radical part as you all know.
I think that in order for us not to come into conflict with the scrutineers we need to make it so that the regs are such that all SR4’s and Pro 6 cars can race in bikesports without the scrutineers pulling us for radical standard parts. I mean seriously like we want to be modifying our cars when they are fine the way they are from the factory.
Think Jonathan was the days saviour really with the hole drive shaft scenario so a big thanks and I two will be in touch soon.
The only thing I will say is that I still think there are some issues that we need to talk about regarding the scrutineers views on what our cars are allowed to be like to conform to the regulations for the championship.
One of the scrutineers said my wing was too high which is strange because the stay and the wing are standard radical parts and also something about the vent behind the front wheels on the SR4 side pod being illegal, which is also a standard Radical part as you all know.
I think that in order for us not to come into conflict with the scrutineers we need to make it so that the regs are such that all SR4’s and Pro 6 cars can race in bikesports without the scrutineers pulling us for radical standard parts. I mean seriously like we want to be modifying our cars when they are fine the way they are from the factory.
jbreakell said:
The only thing I will say is that I still think there are some issues that we need to talk about regarding the scrutineers views on what our cars are allowed to be like to conform to the regulations for the championship.
One of the scrutineers said my wing was too high which is strange because the stay and the wing are standard radical parts and also something about the vent behind the front wheels on the SR4 side pod being illegal, which is also a standard Radical part as you all know.
I think that in order for us not to come into conflict with the scrutineers we need to make it so that the regs are such that all SR4’s and Pro 6 cars can race in bikesports without the scrutineers pulling us for radical standard parts. I mean seriously like we want to be modifying our cars when they are fine the way they are from the factory.
Hi James, We had this exact conversation with the club 18 months ago over the same subject. Seems they didn't listen.One of the scrutineers said my wing was too high which is strange because the stay and the wing are standard radical parts and also something about the vent behind the front wheels on the SR4 side pod being illegal, which is also a standard Radical part as you all know.
I think that in order for us not to come into conflict with the scrutineers we need to make it so that the regs are such that all SR4’s and Pro 6 cars can race in bikesports without the scrutineers pulling us for radical standard parts. I mean seriously like we want to be modifying our cars when they are fine the way they are from the factory.
up to you guys where you race...but that's EXACTLY why we left the club, stuck our necks out and set something else up.
There seems some resentment about us 'splitting grids' etc....well, I put up with the bikesports 'attitude' for three full seasons and watched the discourse go on...and on...and on...to be told our opnions didn't count while drivers continued to walk away. (just look at the gird numbers through the 2008 season)
Maybe things WILL change in Bikeports. If not then there are other options out there.
Edited by jp-speed-triple on Monday 6th April 19:53
James,
Spoke to Robin today, he has confirmed that we don't have an issue with the wing heights, the blue book refers specifically to single seaters only. I will get formal confirmation of this over the next few weeks. So this one is not going to be a problem ongoing. Which is good because it would have hurt to get the grinder out on my rear wing!!
The wheel vents are still an issue - though worse case they are easy to cover over, so not as much of a problem.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I think we can sort all of this out without too much agro.
Guys, genuinely good luck with BESCR, it would be great to see both series with full grids,
Jon
Spoke to Robin today, he has confirmed that we don't have an issue with the wing heights, the blue book refers specifically to single seaters only. I will get formal confirmation of this over the next few weeks. So this one is not going to be a problem ongoing. Which is good because it would have hurt to get the grinder out on my rear wing!!
The wheel vents are still an issue - though worse case they are easy to cover over, so not as much of a problem.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I think we can sort all of this out without too much agro.
Guys, genuinely good luck with BESCR, it would be great to see both series with full grids,
Jon
yellowrad said:
The wheel vents are still an issue - though worse case they are easy to cover over, so not as much of a problem.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I think we can sort all of this out without too much agro.
Hi JonathanMaybe I'm being naive, but I think we can sort all of this out without too much agro.
As JP pointed out, we had these self same difficulties when I was Formula Rep for Bikesports (the longest – and most pointless - 18 months of my life!)
The wing height thing comes from an historical misinterpretation of the Grey Book by the 750 and there is, currently, no maximum wing height (width/overhang/anything) for sports racing cars – although, if you read Bikesports’ regs, you can see that Robin (having finally lost his battle with me on this one) was hoping that there would be.
The side pod thing is very strange, as this has never been an issue in the past.
What I did battle the 750 and the MSA on, was the legality of the louvers in the tops of our mudguards – which they insisted (and still insist) are illegal under [C(b)]h.8.i. Perhaps this is what the Scrutineer (was it Dallas?) was referring to.
Unfortunately, James, any talk of ‘factory standard’ will fall on deaf ears at the 750 and if anyone is planning to take up my baton as Formula Rep, JP might want to give you access to my many threads and emails on these subjects on the BESCR forum.
When reading them, you might be struck by the 750’s complete intransigence on most subjects, and my utter frustration as - in spite of my efforts - they did a fantastic job of destroying Bikesports.
For those of you who don't believe me, take a look at the Bikesports grids at the beginning of last year, and in '07 and count the names that re-appear this year.
And if you happen to be looking at the results for Brands, last year, you might also note that six cars were excluded on the basis of a reverse gear test that was incorrectly carried out. Of course, when this was pointed out to them, the 750 reinstated the original results didn't they? Did they f*ck!
Ask the 750's Bikesports Eligibility Scrutineer (Bob Blackmore) about this and ask him if the 750 have bought him the endoscope that he asked for - so he can check our engines for signs of cylinder head/manifold work. Then ask him if he has ever seen the inside of a modern bike engine.
You could also ask him about the time (Silverstone '07) when he excluded almost everyone because their wings were too high and they had louvres on their front mudguards.
Or you could save yourselves an absolutely unbelievable amount of [quote] 'agro' and… well, you know…
Blimey! It's like Groundhog Day, this is!
Edited by Count Johnny on Tuesday 7th April 04:31
PS
In case it helps, Article 258A (FIA Appendix J - Technical Regulations for Sports Cars) paragraph 3.4.6 states that ‘air extractors…are mandatory above the front wheels without protruding more than 20mm (louvers)’ and the same paragraph goes on to state that the ‘Total area of the openings..’ must be ’…25 sq. in. (160cm2) as a minimum on each side’.
In other words, louvres on front mudguards are MANDATORY for FIA Sports Cars.
Fire that off to Robin and Keith, and let me know how you get on.
In case it helps, Article 258A (FIA Appendix J - Technical Regulations for Sports Cars) paragraph 3.4.6 states that ‘air extractors…are mandatory above the front wheels without protruding more than 20mm (louvers)’ and the same paragraph goes on to state that the ‘Total area of the openings..’ must be ’…25 sq. in. (160cm2) as a minimum on each side’.
In other words, louvres on front mudguards are MANDATORY for FIA Sports Cars.
Fire that off to Robin and Keith, and let me know how you get on.
nick997 said:
My money's on Count Johnny, he's got fire in his belly and doesn't quite seem to have moved on to a happy place yet.
Sorry Nick997While your money is well placed, I’m only trying to save Jonathan from any naivety that might have happened his way. Is it OK to care?
Mind you, if the 750 really think the Reynard Cashconverter is a Bikesports car – and think that it’s legal under their regulations – all bets are off.
That 4G must have completely addled their brains (or been measured on Radical's dyno).
Hi Guys,
I know about the battle we had last season about the louvers and I am in agreement that we need them and it is good that the FIA regs say they are mandatry. However the scrutineer I was having a heated debate with, (Tall Gray haired fellow but didn't get his name, probably because I couldn't believe the crap that was coming out of his mouth) definitely was talking about the air duct/vent at the back of the front wheels on the side of the side pod on the SR4 in particular and the prosport as well.
You see if you have a ground affect front spliter/undertray with venturi’s built into it to produce the same down force affect as a rear diffuser, you must vent the low pressure air out the back of the venturi in order for it to work correctly.
We all know that a venturi undertray changes the pressure of the airflow, which creates downforce.
However if it is not allowed to work correctly it can have negative affects i.e. causing a build up air, which can lift the front wheels off the ground slightly giving the car less grip at the front.
I have had experience of this when I used a high down force venturied splitter on an SR3 but kept the old side pods with no vents.
You will have to forgive me for waffling on about all this when the point I am really trying to make is that seeing as the bikesports championship’s field is mostly Radicals then surely we shouldn’t have to modify our cars from the standard trim to keep the scrutineers happy. It seems that the scrutineers say they are only enforcing the blue book, but have all misinterpreted what it is actually telling them and what sort of cars it refers to.
I personally like the bikesports championship. There are a good group of guys that go racing; it is cost effective, and fun. But I fear that the main issues with the championship is the issues with the regs and scrutineers and is ultimately the reason why so many people have gone else were.
P.S. On a totally different point I have a brand new set of floating disc bells for an SR4/Pro6 that I am trying to get rid of if anyone is interested!!!!
I know about the battle we had last season about the louvers and I am in agreement that we need them and it is good that the FIA regs say they are mandatry. However the scrutineer I was having a heated debate with, (Tall Gray haired fellow but didn't get his name, probably because I couldn't believe the crap that was coming out of his mouth) definitely was talking about the air duct/vent at the back of the front wheels on the side of the side pod on the SR4 in particular and the prosport as well.
You see if you have a ground affect front spliter/undertray with venturi’s built into it to produce the same down force affect as a rear diffuser, you must vent the low pressure air out the back of the venturi in order for it to work correctly.
We all know that a venturi undertray changes the pressure of the airflow, which creates downforce.
However if it is not allowed to work correctly it can have negative affects i.e. causing a build up air, which can lift the front wheels off the ground slightly giving the car less grip at the front.
I have had experience of this when I used a high down force venturied splitter on an SR3 but kept the old side pods with no vents.
You will have to forgive me for waffling on about all this when the point I am really trying to make is that seeing as the bikesports championship’s field is mostly Radicals then surely we shouldn’t have to modify our cars from the standard trim to keep the scrutineers happy. It seems that the scrutineers say they are only enforcing the blue book, but have all misinterpreted what it is actually telling them and what sort of cars it refers to.
I personally like the bikesports championship. There are a good group of guys that go racing; it is cost effective, and fun. But I fear that the main issues with the championship is the issues with the regs and scrutineers and is ultimately the reason why so many people have gone else were.
P.S. On a totally different point I have a brand new set of floating disc bells for an SR4/Pro6 that I am trying to get rid of if anyone is interested!!!!
nick997 said:
Count Johnny said:
Is it OK to care?
Yep, total respect for you and JP and what you are trying to achieve.James
Tall grey haired fellow? Could be any one of a number of well known idiots!
Thanks for – albeit without, perhaps, meaning to - making my point.
I’m sure, from what you say, that he is referring to the aforementioned article in the Grey Book (the same article that, they insist, outlaws mudguard louvers) which states:
‘With the exception of racing cars or cars of periods A to D be equipped on all wheels with mudguards which present no sharp edges and cover the complete wheel (flange+rim+tyre) around an arc of 120 degrees. This minimum coverage must:
(i) be achieved with a continuous surface of rigid material uninterrupted by any gaps, holes, slots, or vents.’
I shan’t bore you with the dialogue that I had with the 750 and the MSA that we were ‘racing cars’ and exempt for this reason.
I, also, don’t have a side elevation image of an SR4 - or a protractor to hand – so can’t tell you whether your mudguard covers 120 degrees of your complete wheel.
I will tell you that – as Technical Representative for BESCR – I no longer have to worry, because, at BESCR, your car is legal and you can actually spend hundreds (thousands?) of pounds to get to a race meeting without worrying whether you will be summarily, and mistakenly, excluded by any one of a number of well known idiots.
jbreakell said:
I personally like the bikesports championship. There are a good group of guys that go racing; it is cost effective, and fun. But I fear that the main issues with the championship is the issues with the regs and scrutineers and is ultimately the reason why so many people have gone else were.
GPWM.Only reason we did what we did was the grief involved in getting to race with what we all agree .
Mods note: Please don't advertise in the forums.
Edited by mechsympathy on Tuesday 7th April 21:16
ScottHughes said:
Hi all,
Sorry to butt in but the blue book does make referance to max wing height not being above the roll over bar.. so as far I can tell all radicals are ok..
Hi ScottSorry to butt in but the blue book does make referance to max wing height not being above the roll over bar.. so as far I can tell all radicals are ok..
Please don't take this as a challenge - it's an overlong and overboring book - but exactly where does the '09 Grey Book mandate as your suggest? I really can't find it.
There's a lot of misinformation on this subject. I'd hate to be a part of it.
Edited by Count Johnny on Tuesday 7th April 20:15
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