SR3 Brake pad advice needed please

[DarioT]

hi guys, i need some advise on pads for my SR3. its running original willwood calipers and vented ford sierra disks alround.

my problem is that i have great difficulty in getting good brake feel. i put in last year a set of Hawk HT10 pads (i think) and i am confident that things got worse from that point on.

now i dont want to waste money chasing the perfect pad as, it is after all a track day car not a racer (by trying pad after pad combo).

so a little advise on peoples expirence with the standard (older) brake set up and what pads they use and if they provide good feel and ultimately would they recommend them.

it takes me a significant stomp of the pedal to make an impression and significant continued pressure to slow the car down!(and my bloody foot hurts by the end of a long day). i know i have to wait for them to heat up, but sometimes it not always possible to drive fast enough and stop hard enough to keep then on the boil.

i dont mind the pads wearing faster, just want a better brake pedle fell and better stopping power (no i'm not spending over £3k on a big brake set up)

thanking you in advance for your input.

[RobC]

Fit a set of Performance Friction 01 pads, speak to Anthony at Techcraft (http://www.techcraft.co.uk)for prices etc. Part number - 7752.01.12.44 - but just double check with Anthony, they used to be around ~£60/set for the Wilwoods.

Also worth getting the Wilwoods serviced, oil seals are cheap as chips and can be hand from Rally Design. Also new pots aren't expensive either, again from Rally Design.

Edited by RobC on Thursday 26th March 22:36

[splitpin]

Hi Dario

Aside from the pads / pedal feel tech stuff, this sounds most promising .... in that you sound to be eyeing up keeping the Beastie?

How's that shoulder shaping up?

Hope so and good I hope respectively !

Best Regards

[DarioT]

RobC said:

Fit a set of Performance Friction 01 pads, speak to Anthony at Techcraft (http://www.techcraft.co.uk)for prices etc. Part number - 7752.01.12.44 - but just double check with Anthony, they used to be around ~£60/set for the Wilwoods.

Also worth getting the Wilwoods serviced, oil seals are cheap as chips and can be hand from Rally Design. Also new pots aren't expensive either, again from Rally Design.

Edited by RobC on Thursday 26th March 22:36

thanks for that Rob, hopefully some other will pitch in as well and we can get some sort of consensus.

splitpin said:

Hi Dario

Aside from the pads / pedal feel tech stuff, this sounds most promising .... in that you sound to be eyeing up keeping the Beastie?

How's that shoulder shaping up?

Hope so and good I hope respectively !

Best Regards

thanks, yes the shoulder is doing much better ATM and i am looking forward to a longer less incident and cost packed track day season!

Dario

[Simon T]

Dario,
You should be able to lock the wheels without too much trouble with either the wilwoods or the Hispec calipers once the brakes are up to temp.

1. You can try driving the out lap with some left foot braking whilst still on the throttle on the straights to get some temp into the system, that will sppeed the process up.
2. Check the brake bias is set to the centre as this will have a big impact on the braking effectiveness
3. Is there any air in the system, even the smallest amount will greatly reduce the braking efficiency.

Assuming all of the above does not fix it then the Performance friction 01 pads are the ones to have, I ran them in my SR3 before moving to the hispecs and they worked fine after half a lap of warnming up.

If this does not improve it your next step would be a rebuild of the calipers and replacement of the master cylinder seals If you have got the time it might be a good idea anyway


Hope this helps

Simon

[RedRad]

Does this mean we will see you out and about soon ?

Just back from Spa, next event Radical owners Gold Track day, Hope to see you there ?

[ScottHughes]

I can only backup what others are saying try performance 01's.. also it's worth checking that your pads are not glazing - do your disks have the grooves in them anymore as these help to stop the pads glazing, rubbing the pads on some corse sand paper can help?

Also if you do get the performance pads make sure you bed them in correctly as you have to transfer some of the carbon onto the disks to get the best out of them.

[Martin B]

I used the Performance 01s fo the first half of last year, terrible when cold and as everyone else has said pretty good when hot. Have since changed to DS3000s which are miles better from cold and seem kinder to the disks aswell. Not a lot of difference in braking power but less temperature sensitive in my view.

Martin

[DarioT]

Simon T said:

Dario,
You should be able to lock the wheels without too much trouble with either the wilwoods or the Hispec calipers once the brakes are up to temp. i can look them at lower speeds (wich i dont want to do cos it turns the fronts in to thruppenny bits!)

1. You can try driving the out lap with some left foot braking whilst still on the throttle on the straights to get some temp into the system, that will sppeed the process up. yes i do do this action to warm them up first time out of the pits, but then generally dont do it through the day. so i will adopt this more often
2. Check the brake bias is set to the centre as this will have a big impact on the braking effectiveness {b] i generally try and run slightly forward of the central position, but i was reading today on how to measure the braking torque front to back and how to set the percentage f to r [/b]
3. Is there any air in the system, even the smallest amount will greatly reduce the braking efficiency. no this is something thast i try to get right as the pedal is very solid

Assuming all of the above does not fix it then the Performance friction 01 pads are the ones to have, I ran them in my SR3 before moving to the hispecs and they worked fine after half a lap of warnming up. these a bit of me that wants a cooler acting / operating pad to get a better initial bite. i am concerned about the cooler operation of these pads, possibly incorrectly so.

If this does not improve it your next step would be a rebuild of the calipers and replacement of the master cylinder seals If you have got the time it might be a good idea anyway i ordered new disks front and rear from rally design (ford sierra non abs all round), and now i'm going to strip down the calipers and put some new seal in for good measure. Many thanks for the input Dario


Hope this helps

Simon

[DarioT]

RedRad said:

Does this mean we will see you out and about soon ?

Just back from Spa, next event Radical owners Gold Track day, Hope to see you there ?

yes should be around soon, need to give my shoulder a little more time, but Spa in June is booked!

i will try and make it to the ROC day, but we will see.

Dario

[DarioT]

ScottHughes said:

I can only backup what others are saying try performance 01's.. also it's worth checking that your pads are not glazing - do your disks have the grooves in them anymore as these help to stop the pads glazing, rubbing the pads on some corse sand paper can help?

Also if you do get the performance pads make sure you bed them in correctly as you have to transfer some of the carbon onto the disks to get the best out of them.

Hmmm hadn't thought about deglazing the pads.... after all i only used to do this years ago when i had cheaper cars lol. I'm changing out the disks as a matter of corse as they are so cheap for the early brake set up.

[DarioT]

Martin B said:

I used the Performance 01s fo the first half of last year, terrible when cold and as everyone else has said pretty good when hot. Have since changed to DS3000s which are miles better from cold and seem kinder to the disks aswell. Not a lot of difference in braking power but less temperature sensitive in my view.

Martin

Martin given that you have expirenced both pads, do you rate the DS3000s that much in comparison to the performance 01s and can you relate to what i have stated?

Dario

Edited by DarioT on Friday 27th March 20:38

[Martin B]

Dario,

I think the feel of the two types of brake pads are very different. The Performance 01s when cold felt like I may as well press the bulkhead rather than the pedal for all the good they did, however when warm/hot were very agressive. The DS3000 work very well from cold and do improve when hot but don't feel as agressive and probably slighlty more wooden pedal feeling, but still seem to stop just as well. The disc wear with the 01s was pretty fierce, not as bad with the DS3000s. There is now an upgraded DS3000s material which is meant to have a slightly higher coefficient of friction than the type I am using, want to try those next.

I think it really is down to personal taste and how you like the brakes to feel.

Martin

[DarioT]

Martin B said:

Dario,

I think the feel of the two types of brake pads are very different. The Performance 01s when cold felt like I may as well press the bulkhead rather than the pedal for all the good they did, however when warm/hot were very agressive. The DS3000 work very well from cold and do improve when hot but don't feel as agressive and probably slighlty more wooden pedal feeling, but still seem to stop just as well. The disc wear with the 01s was pretty fierce, not as bad with the DS3000s. There is now an upgraded DS3000s material which is meant to have a slightly higher coefficient of friction than the type I am using, want to try those next.

I think it really is down to personal taste and how you like the brakes to feel.

Martin

Martin i think your comment of slighty more wooden feel would make me err to the 01s then. wooden is what i have at the moment. many thanks for the comments. Dario

[DarioT]

RobC said:

Fit a set of Performance Friction 01 pads, speak to Anthony at Techcraft (http://www.techcraft.co.uk)for prices etc. Part number - 7752.01.12.44 - but just double check with Anthony, they used to be around ~£60/set for the Wilwoods.

Also worth getting the Wilwoods serviced, oil seals are cheap as chips and can be hand from Rally Design. Also new pots aren't expensive either, again from Rally Design.

Edited by RobC on Thursday 26th March 22:36

thanks for the advise Rob, nice chap that Anthony and they were cheaper than you suggest. Bargain.

we will see how they stop the car at the next outing.

BTW the rear brakes were much less worn that then fronts and the fronts were starting to break up. so i will try and re set the front rear bias and see where we go from there.

cheers

Dario

[Marshy98]

Hi Dario

Good to see you back, have you got the part no for the discs as i have just returned from Cadwell Park and my fronts now have stress cracks and need replacing.

Cheers

Paul

[RobC]

Marshy

If you have the solid 260mm discs they are Escort RS Turbo items, ~£40 from your local motorfactor

Happy to help Dario

Edited by RobC on Saturday 4th April 20:09

[DarioT]

Marshy98 said:

Hi Dario

Good to see you back, have you got the part no for the discs as i have just returned from Cadwell Park and my fronts now have stress cracks and need replacing.

Cheers

Paul

i got mine from Rally design http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPat...
part number is BM052 (Ford seria with ABS) 260mm x 24mm

£29.24 + VAT and shipping

Dario

[DarioT]

i had my first day out this year after the the winter lay-up.

i thought i would report back regarding the choice of pads that i was recommended to have.

bedding in was always going to difficult trying to apply the brakes so hard a series of times, but i think i acheived it without upsetting anybody behind me! LOL.

anyway the PF pads are good! but they became better still i wound back some rear brake by 2 turns and hey presto very good reliable brakes again.

intrestingly i read an article about applying brakes on a race car (no real training to speak of in that area) and that gave me some good pointers about their application.

many thanks to those that helped.

Dario