To dry sump or not.....
Discussion
What's the general consensus regarding the necessity or otherwise of fitting a dry sump system to a Prosport / PR6?
I have planned on staying with a wet sump with the new for this season tuned engine. The standard fitted non tuned engine has proved trouble free in the races I used the car for last year & I can't really see any reason why going to a tuned motor of the same capacity would need any modification to the oil supply, as its not going to go round the corners any quicker!
I am aware that Radical pretty much insist that the 1500cc motors run with dry sump, but with a tuned 1300cc what say you guys?
I have planned on staying with a wet sump with the new for this season tuned engine. The standard fitted non tuned engine has proved trouble free in the races I used the car for last year & I can't really see any reason why going to a tuned motor of the same capacity would need any modification to the oil supply, as its not going to go round the corners any quicker!
I am aware that Radical pretty much insist that the 1500cc motors run with dry sump, but with a tuned 1300cc what say you guys?
New engine = £x
Dry sump = £y
y-x = Risk (This will be a large negative number
)
Simon
www.tillingmotorsport.com
Ps I have an SR3 dry sump tank if anyone is interested
Dry sump = £y
y-x = Risk (This will be a large negative number
)Simon
www.tillingmotorsport.com
Ps I have an SR3 dry sump tank if anyone is interested
Yes, I keep thinking what if the worst happens too........... But its been fine with the standard motor wet sumped thus far including a trip to Rockingham & as I surmise I can't see what difference there would be in oil supply requirements with a tuned version of the same capacity?
Does anybody know if the Radical drysump pan & pump are the ones made by Nova racing at all?
Does anybody know if the Radical drysump pan & pump are the ones made by Nova racing at all?
Hi, not sure what you want to hear...
The harder you drive the car the more G you will subject it to, at some stage you will get to the point were a wet sump system will not be able to cope and will allow air into the oil pick up pipe rather than oil. You will not know how close to that point you are, but you will know when you reach it.
Some paople will say it'll be ok, some people will say it won't you have two options:-
1. wet sump - you may be ok and you may then save some money
2. Dry sump - You will be ok, you will spend some money but you may save a lot more
As Clint said, "....what you've gotta ask yourself is; do I feel lucky?"
Simon
The harder you drive the car the more G you will subject it to, at some stage you will get to the point were a wet sump system will not be able to cope and will allow air into the oil pick up pipe rather than oil. You will not know how close to that point you are, but you will know when you reach it.
Some paople will say it'll be ok, some people will say it won't you have two options:-
1. wet sump - you may be ok and you may then save some money
2. Dry sump - You will be ok, you will spend some money but you may save a lot more
As Clint said, "....what you've gotta ask yourself is; do I feel lucky?"
Simon
As they tend to hold good, I like 'rules of thumb'; one seems to be emerging here? >
Road & Occasional Trackday Use > Wet Sump's OK
Racing & any other sustained Full Bore Use > Dry Sump's the way to go / pretty well essential.
I think this is 'endorsed' by the fact that virtually all 2009 Radical's are now dry-sumped as standard (including the PR6), the only (weird or what) exception being the standard 'Busa engined SR4.
I think there can be a tendency for people to kid themselves about the 'Busa being wet-sumped as standard in it's home vehicle i.e. the GSX1300R, along the lines of "if it's OK there, surely it'll be likewise in my Radical". Not so - when the oil is ramping up in the sump of a bike under centrifugal cornering force, the bike is leaning in, which tends to near enough level the oil in the sump. Add this to the Radical carrying at least twice the weight and it's clear that the 'Busa engine and gearbox lives a much tougher life in a Radical than in the bike.
Road & Occasional Trackday Use > Wet Sump's OK
Racing & any other sustained Full Bore Use > Dry Sump's the way to go / pretty well essential.
I think this is 'endorsed' by the fact that virtually all 2009 Radical's are now dry-sumped as standard (including the PR6), the only (weird or what) exception being the standard 'Busa engined SR4.
I think there can be a tendency for people to kid themselves about the 'Busa being wet-sumped as standard in it's home vehicle i.e. the GSX1300R, along the lines of "if it's OK there, surely it'll be likewise in my Radical". Not so - when the oil is ramping up in the sump of a bike under centrifugal cornering force, the bike is leaning in, which tends to near enough level the oil in the sump. Add this to the Radical carrying at least twice the weight and it's clear that the 'Busa engine and gearbox lives a much tougher life in a Radical than in the bike.
Simon, thats a great analogy for the situation!
Splitpin, I don't think its quite as cut & dry as that to be honest. Both myself & Richard stables have raced for a couple of years (me only having done 12 or so races, compared to prob 50 plus for Richard) with a wet sump in our PR6's in a prolonged & fullbore sort of way (47.2 secs at Brands for me on my first visit) with no problems at all. My difficulty remains in trying to understand what if any difference there will be with the oil supply requirement using a tuned same capacity engine?
I think I will probably go with a drysump system, but cant help thinking that maybe I don't actually need it.......which brings us back to Simon's Clint Eastwood analogy..........
Splitpin, I don't think its quite as cut & dry as that to be honest. Both myself & Richard stables have raced for a couple of years (me only having done 12 or so races, compared to prob 50 plus for Richard) with a wet sump in our PR6's in a prolonged & fullbore sort of way (47.2 secs at Brands for me on my first visit) with no problems at all. My difficulty remains in trying to understand what if any difference there will be with the oil supply requirement using a tuned same capacity engine?
I think I will probably go with a drysump system, but cant help thinking that maybe I don't actually need it.......which brings us back to Simon's Clint Eastwood analogy..........
Interesting thought about track days. One of the things about the wet sump setup is that you need to make sure the oil is overfull and monitor it carefully (it's hard to measure as well). So for track days it's a bit of a pain to keep on top of it. You could argue that with the better rigour of racing (especially if you have mechanical support), it's more feasible to be wet sumped when racing than track days.
I for one hate the whole wet-sump, will it, won't it thing!
Bert
I for one hate the whole wet-sump, will it, won't it thing!
Bert
RobC said:
Bert
Does your car have a dipstick? if not I'd recommend getting one fitted....makes life a whole lot easier
Nope, no dipstick Rob, but then I have a dry sump, easy-peasy.Does your car have a dipstick? if not I'd recommend getting one fitted....makes life a whole lot easier
I was under the impression (I may be wrong, and it may be different on the different engines) that it was quite hard to accurately get the level right on the wet sump clubsport. Right as in high enough to stop oil surge, but not so high as to go horribly wrong.
As I said dry-sump for me every time.
Bert
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