Bedford Noise Limits
Discussion
What's the general feeling on Bedford's noise limits: at 101db static and 87.5db drive by am I having a laugh? Car is an SR4 with a decent quiet can on it - the sealed non-repackable type where the exit is a right angles to the car IYSWIM.
Looking for a track day that is close to me (Essex), preferably not Snett, on a weekend and before the ROC day.
Nick
Looking for a track day that is close to me (Essex), preferably not Snett, on a weekend and before the ROC day.
Nick
I suspect you will be comfortably OK providing the packing of that ('pipe out of the left hand side when viewed from the back looking forward') so called quiet silencer is sound; if you shake it and it rustles a lot/can hear stuff sliding around, it's on the way out or shot.
The reason I say this is because it's my understanding that in terms of static/drive-by, Radicals can struggle with the former but usually have little problem with the latter, the factors being mid-engined, high reving and enclosing bodywork on the former, whereas the enclosing bodywork becomes an advantage on the latter. As I read it, Bedford's one strike and out rule applies to cars that trigger the drive-by noise limit.
As they say "If you are considering making a booking please make sure that your car conforms well within these limit......and......if you have any questions please feel free to call us on 0870 850 5014", why not do so and ask them? They must have loads of experience of having (or not having!) Radicals on Trackdays, so they really should know. Use a false name just in case?!!!! In fact, didn't an SR4 hold Evo's fastest lap time?.............set at Bedford I recollect.
14th March 09? Now that could be tempting..................!
The reason I say this is because it's my understanding that in terms of static/drive-by, Radicals can struggle with the former but usually have little problem with the latter, the factors being mid-engined, high reving and enclosing bodywork on the former, whereas the enclosing bodywork becomes an advantage on the latter. As I read it, Bedford's one strike and out rule applies to cars that trigger the drive-by noise limit.
As they say "If you are considering making a booking please make sure that your car conforms well within these limit......and......if you have any questions please feel free to call us on 0870 850 5014", why not do so and ask them? They must have loads of experience of having (or not having!) Radicals on Trackdays, so they really should know. Use a false name just in case?!!!! In fact, didn't an SR4 hold Evo's fastest lap time?.............set at Bedford I recollect.
14th March 09? Now that could be tempting..................!
Spoke to MSV and they couldn't give a definite yes or no - "we've had Radicals before and some had problems". So not that helpful really.
It was the drive by level that I was more concerned about as the static is always measured - but I can't recall if it was 100 or 101 last time out. Wonders out loud - do they normally write the db level on one the sound test passed sticker? Might still be on the car.
14th March is correct, if I get a few definite yes's on here then maybe I'll take a chance and go along with a light foot. I'll let you know if I do book it up.
Nick
It was the drive by level that I was more concerned about as the static is always measured - but I can't recall if it was 100 or 101 last time out. Wonders out loud - do they normally write the db level on one the sound test passed sticker? Might still be on the car.
14th March is correct, if I get a few definite yes's on here then maybe I'll take a chance and go along with a light foot. I'll let you know if I do book it up.
Nick
martvr said:
splitpin said:
In fact, didn't an SR4 hold Evo's fastest lap time?.............set at Bedford I recollect.
Yes it was at Bedford but no, it was an SR3 and it was before they tightened up on their limits.By the way, have you joined ROC are you attending the Exclusively Radical Trackday @ Silverstone GP Circuit on 29 April 2009? Most of the guys here on RF have and are doing so. It'll be a great way to put friendly faces to PH 'handles'.
Ping one direct to Will ( radicaloc@googlemail.com ), Club Founder if you'd like more details. Hope to see you there
My, my there's a good head on that tea !splitpin said:
Willbee's young lady hails from those parts. It's a small world!
All very good to know 
but can she distract a sound tester while we blat round the autodrome for a few hours?? I see he's been busy of late on our combined task....Nick
Edited by nick997 on Thursday 26th February 21:49
Last time i did bedford they had tightened things up significantly. no longer are you allowed on to the circuit to unload the car and bring it back to the entrance for a sound test, you have to do it now at a staging area about 5-700m away from the facility.
if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
DarioT said:
Last time i did bedford they had tightened things up significantly. no longer are you allowed on to the circuit to unload the car and bring it back to the entrance for a sound test, you have to do it now at a staging area about 5-700m away from the facility.
if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
Dario: Are you saying you have to unload it, get it noise testedf/passed, then load it up again to get past the SPs and then unload it again to actually use it on track? Hope not!if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
DarioT said:
Last time i did bedford they had tightened things up significantly. no longer are you allowed on to the circuit to unload the car and bring it back to the entrance for a sound test, you have to do it now at a staging area about 5-700m away from the facility.
if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
I did wonder as they do the test as you arrive! I havent driven there in a radical, but it did strike me as a difficult/silly system!if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
Bert
nick997 said:
Spoke to somebody involved with Radical on it and there reply was a definite maybe. Add in Dario's comments and it looks like I could make life easier by finding somewhere else to go out and play.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Nick
Nick, which generation quiet box have you got? The current one is much quieter than the previous generation (if that makes sense).Thanks for everyone's input.
Nick
If you do go to Bedford and dont have the current quiet one, you are welcome to borrow mine (which is currently in Cranfield).
Bert
I have the one that I understand Radical internally refer to as "The Teapot". It's totally sealed with the exit coming out across the car and then bending round to face out of the back of the car - the exit pipe looking like a teapot spout. I think it is quite effective if not as good as the current version that has been discussed on here before and linked to on ebay.
Thanks for the offer but based on Dario's comments I think I will look elsewhere, the sound testing seems to be a bit of a hassle. Ideally I don't want to go midweek until end of March due to volume of work but perhaps I will have to think again.
Thanks again.
Nick
Thanks for the offer but based on Dario's comments I think I will look elsewhere, the sound testing seems to be a bit of a hassle. Ideally I don't want to go midweek until end of March due to volume of work but perhaps I will have to think again.
Thanks again.
Nick
splitpin said:
DarioT said:
Last time i did bedford they had tightened things up significantly. no longer are you allowed on to the circuit to unload the car and bring it back to the entrance for a sound test, you have to do it now at a staging area about 5-700m away from the facility.
if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
Dario: Are you saying you have to unload it, get it noise testedf/passed, then load it up again to get past the SPs and then unload it again to actually use it on track? Hope not!if you do unload the radical and try and bring it back you have to contend with two huge sleeping police men humps and there IS no way your going to get over it
they are in all sorts of trouble now since the courts ruled in favour of some residents at another circuit. its being appealed in the courts soon.!
it is difficult nowing how hard it is to get one of these cars going/ removing covers, warming them up before revving etc, etc.
Dario
BUT it is a real pain to try and start the car on the trailer, not be able to get to the fast idle adjuster to allow the cost carburettor engine to run. it is a pi$$er of a hassle!
taking the trailer to the pits and bringing the car back is not possible because of the road humps which our cars will not cross.
Dario
I have emailed MSV asking them whether they are or aren't anti-Radical.
I have noted that according to Palmersport's Home Page, "a great deal of thought has gone in to making Bedford Autodrome the venue that provides the most comfort, quality and convenience for our important guests."
I have observed that by this, I assume they mean the likes of people like me who like to Trackday, sometimes using my Radical - a vehicle more than good enough to be entertained and welcomed with convenience at circuits like Silverstone.
I have asked them to apprise me regarding the convenience offered at their Bedford Autodrome venue> Whereas it is certainly not the case at Silverstone, if I understand correctly, at Bedford I could be required to de-trailer my Radical for it to be noise tested, then to re-trailer it to pass over speed bumps, then to de-trailer it again to use. That if this is true this is of course utterly ridiculous, showing significant disregard for my convenience as a Customer. If correct, perhaps they could tell me why, when there are all those acres and acres (another Palmersport Website claim) to organise things conveniently across
Particularly with a 'one strike and out' policy, I also find it unsatisfactory (with what must be a huge database their end) that they apparently cannot be more authorative on the likelihood of a Radical meeting the static and drive-by noise limits; I have noted that most all Radicals (save the SR8 & SR5 which are both rare as far as Trackdays are concerned) have either 1300 Suzuki or 1200 Kawasaki engines, with two basic exhaust formats; full race and a quiet silencer of which there are basically two variants, the later being described as
98dB. That I therefore fail to see why they cannot be more meaningful in terms of guidance as to whether or not a Radical would meet the criteria, better guiding their Customers along the lines of for example, "obviously without any guarantee on our part, providing your Radical has a fully functional quiet silencer fitted, it should be able to comply with both the static and drive-by noise limits"........or not as the case may be.
I have requested that they respond via the thread on RF on PH; i.e. to say something meaningful about how and why Radicals are welcome or not as the case may be at Bedford Autodrome.
If they reply direct to me, I will ask Will to circulate this via ROC's email; ROC gives us a potential 'Group Muscle' that we previously didn't have. MSV are either friends or enemies of Radical Owners and I for one would like to know which; if the latter, they won't be getting any of my folding at any of their venues......not even the ones I can get my Radical onto without all this frigging about.
The Customer is King.
I have noted that according to Palmersport's Home Page, "a great deal of thought has gone in to making Bedford Autodrome the venue that provides the most comfort, quality and convenience for our important guests."
I have observed that by this, I assume they mean the likes of people like me who like to Trackday, sometimes using my Radical - a vehicle more than good enough to be entertained and welcomed with convenience at circuits like Silverstone.
I have asked them to apprise me regarding the convenience offered at their Bedford Autodrome venue> Whereas it is certainly not the case at Silverstone, if I understand correctly, at Bedford I could be required to de-trailer my Radical for it to be noise tested, then to re-trailer it to pass over speed bumps, then to de-trailer it again to use. That if this is true this is of course utterly ridiculous, showing significant disregard for my convenience as a Customer. If correct, perhaps they could tell me why, when there are all those acres and acres (another Palmersport Website claim) to organise things conveniently across
Particularly with a 'one strike and out' policy, I also find it unsatisfactory (with what must be a huge database their end) that they apparently cannot be more authorative on the likelihood of a Radical meeting the static and drive-by noise limits; I have noted that most all Radicals (save the SR8 & SR5 which are both rare as far as Trackdays are concerned) have either 1300 Suzuki or 1200 Kawasaki engines, with two basic exhaust formats; full race and a quiet silencer of which there are basically two variants, the later being described as
98dB. That I therefore fail to see why they cannot be more meaningful in terms of guidance as to whether or not a Radical would meet the criteria, better guiding their Customers along the lines of for example, "obviously without any guarantee on our part, providing your Radical has a fully functional quiet silencer fitted, it should be able to comply with both the static and drive-by noise limits"........or not as the case may be.
I have requested that they respond via the thread on RF on PH; i.e. to say something meaningful about how and why Radicals are welcome or not as the case may be at Bedford Autodrome.
If they reply direct to me, I will ask Will to circulate this via ROC's email; ROC gives us a potential 'Group Muscle' that we previously didn't have. MSV are either friends or enemies of Radical Owners and I for one would like to know which; if the latter, they won't be getting any of my folding at any of their venues......not even the ones I can get my Radical onto without all this frigging about.
The Customer is King. rea;istically split pin, Bedford is for road going cars.
the arrangements get worse that you describe!
the pits are in the middle of the circuit and they have NO space ofr trailers!
again there is a parking area away from the circuit some 500m and if you are like me and i see myself as not "secial" of "unusual" i want to have my trailer to had with all of my pits and pieces.
even if you have a support vehicle these are not allowed in to the pits are.
went there today with a mate and there were NO race car derivatives at all except for a few caterfileds!
i commend your efforts, but they wont change as their market focus lays elsewhere!
the arrangements get worse that you describe!
the pits are in the middle of the circuit and they have NO space ofr trailers!
again there is a parking area away from the circuit some 500m and if you are like me and i see myself as not "secial" of "unusual" i want to have my trailer to had with all of my pits and pieces.
even if you have a support vehicle these are not allowed in to the pits are.
went there today with a mate and there were NO race car derivatives at all except for a few caterfileds!
i commend your efforts, but they wont change as their market focus lays elsewhere!
splitpin said:
Particularly with a 'one strike and out' policy, I also find it unsatisfactory (with what must be a huge database their end) that they apparently cannot be more authorative on the likelihood of a Radical meeting the static and drive-by noise limits; I have noted that most all Radicals (save the SR8 & SR5 which are both rare as far as Trackdays are concerned) have either 1300 Suzuki or 1200 Kawasaki engines, with two basic exhaust formats; full race and a quiet silencer of which there are basically two variants, the later being described as
98dB.
Whilst I admire your efforts, I think you being too ambitious here! Palmersport would be bonkers to try being authoritative about which cars will and won't be too loud. Two main reasons. If they do it for Rads, what about Porsches, Caterhams and well every other make of car? That's just not really practical.98dB.
Secondly, there are far too many variables even with Rads as to the exhausts (type, condition and age), the state of tune, the induction etc. Also Radical themselves talk twaddle on the subject. For example I have used the two generations of quiet (98db) exhausts on my Clubsport. The current one is okish. The previous one was s
te. It was "definitely ok" for Combe apparently , but came up at 105db! When questioned, they admitted that it possibly, might just about scrape through if the noise tester was looking the other way and the engine was at 1/3 revs not 2/3 or 3/4 as it's sposed to be!It's not a great situation, but I think it's just a facet of modern track day life. It's the fault of council officialdom fired by Nimbys really.
Bert
Take all the points made, but I still reckon we've got to stand up to this sort of crap/couldn't care less attitude else they'll think us chaps in Radicals (and simmilar) can be ignored and/or forgotten/are a walkover.
The NIMBY element is beginning to seriously hack me off; what's next? > a blanket 98dB (then later 85dB?) limit at Silverstone to keep the neighbours happy? Err, excuse me, when did you move in, how long has Silverstone been a racetrack, you hadn't heard of it before you bought and moved in? These people need standing up to, not pandering to, else they'll think they can spoil all our fun; the likes of Radical Owners first, but eventually everyone. If you want proof of what can happen if guys like Radical & Hardcore Porker Owners don't stand-up, just look at Donington (amongst others); there aren't many days when you could take a Radical there now. Anyone fancy an Exclusively G-Whizz Trackday? Thought not.
There are a lot of people spending our money dreaming up stupid rules for us to solve problems that don't actually exist, but the fact remains that there are the Rules and then there is the Reality; the static noise test is meaningless period (and inherently unfair on a Radical to boot.) When did NIMBY last get noise polluted by car after car after car sitting stationary revving away at 7500-ish rpm?
Surely the only noise level that actually matters is the drive-by one and many's the time I've stood on the pit wall at Silverstone thinking given their performance, how incredibly quiet Radicals are compared to many Porsches etc. In fact, the noisiest car I've ever heard was an E Type....going about half the speed of your average Radical and it was ear-splitting, it's lack of pace improving the chances of eardrum perforation.
As for Bedford Aerodrome, the more Dario tells us about it the more half-baked the place sounds. Sleeping policemen for goodness sake! Can't they afford a powered up and down jobbie? Times must be tough at MSV. Looks like a good place to take something a lot more boring than a Radical !
The NIMBY element is beginning to seriously hack me off; what's next? > a blanket 98dB (then later 85dB?) limit at Silverstone to keep the neighbours happy? Err, excuse me, when did you move in, how long has Silverstone been a racetrack, you hadn't heard of it before you bought and moved in? These people need standing up to, not pandering to, else they'll think they can spoil all our fun; the likes of Radical Owners first, but eventually everyone. If you want proof of what can happen if guys like Radical & Hardcore Porker Owners don't stand-up, just look at Donington (amongst others); there aren't many days when you could take a Radical there now. Anyone fancy an Exclusively G-Whizz Trackday? Thought not.
There are a lot of people spending our money dreaming up stupid rules for us to solve problems that don't actually exist, but the fact remains that there are the Rules and then there is the Reality; the static noise test is meaningless period (and inherently unfair on a Radical to boot.) When did NIMBY last get noise polluted by car after car after car sitting stationary revving away at 7500-ish rpm?
Surely the only noise level that actually matters is the drive-by one and many's the time I've stood on the pit wall at Silverstone thinking given their performance, how incredibly quiet Radicals are compared to many Porsches etc. In fact, the noisiest car I've ever heard was an E Type....going about half the speed of your average Radical and it was ear-splitting, it's lack of pace improving the chances of eardrum perforation.
As for Bedford Aerodrome, the more Dario tells us about it the more half-baked the place sounds. Sleeping policemen for goodness sake! Can't they afford a powered up and down jobbie? Times must be tough at MSV. Looks like a good place to take something a lot more boring than a Radical !
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