Radical vs Juno vs Ligier vs Norma
Discussion
I'm at the start of a hunt for another car, in all likelihood CN spec in case I want to do VdeV.
I had an SR3 so I know what to expect about Radicals. I'm more interested in how it drives rather than comparing them for what they are as machines (for instance: the Juno is rose jointed so in many ways is "superior" in terms of its construction to say a Radical with bushes etc, but since I'm not doing the spannering, I don't really care).
I'd need to take passengers from time to time on track days, I guess that rules out a Norma?
Anybody with real world experience of the differences?
Also, a long shot, anybody have experiences of somebody good to run the car (I'm based in Switzerland)?
I had an SR3 so I know what to expect about Radicals. I'm more interested in how it drives rather than comparing them for what they are as machines (for instance: the Juno is rose jointed so in many ways is "superior" in terms of its construction to say a Radical with bushes etc, but since I'm not doing the spannering, I don't really care).
I'd need to take passengers from time to time on track days, I guess that rules out a Norma?
Anybody with real world experience of the differences?
Also, a long shot, anybody have experiences of somebody good to run the car (I'm based in Switzerland)?
AndrewD said:
Hi Rob
Thanks. Out of interest what do you mean when you're making the distinction between race and track day car? Two seats? Or maintenance (the rose joints), or something else?
Andrew
Basically the Radical is a more forgiving car in terms of driving and setup, it doesn't care if the tracking isn't spot on or the cambers are slightly out. You can still get them around track at a resonable pace. They are easy to maintain and Radical (bar their high prices) do offer good support. Think about how many Radicals you see on trackdays compared to the others? Thanks. Out of interest what do you mean when you're making the distinction between race and track day car? Two seats? Or maintenance (the rose joints), or something else?
Andrew
Thanks Rob. See what you mean though I had assumed I see more Radicals because they've sold more to UK customers and I have tended to go to UK organisers track days.
I'm in two minds - I want to race it but I doubt I'll have the time to do a full season. And I want to do half a dozen track days a year too. I'm less concerned about the setup margin of the car, unless it is a real chore!
I'm in two minds - I want to race it but I doubt I'll have the time to do a full season. And I want to do half a dozen track days a year too. I'm less concerned about the setup margin of the car, unless it is a real chore!
Hi Shiny, I will consider an SR3 but I don't want to be tied to Spain, it isn't so near to CH. It would be very kind of you to let me know about the SR3 you know of - is it my old one?
I was thinking CN spec instead because most of the VdeV races aren't that far away and you get a variety of circuits. By the way, Radical do "cheap" support somewhere?
I was thinking CN spec instead because most of the VdeV races aren't that far away and you get a variety of circuits. By the way, Radical do "cheap" support somewhere?
It is your old one indeed and in top fettle it is too! We just don't get to use it much anymore so it's a bit of a shame and just as well be sold on to someone that will use it 
We paid 150€ for a Radical Spain mechanic to be wiping our brow and looking after the car all day at the last event (think we got a special deal somewhere along the line!)
We paid 150€ for a Radical Spain mechanic to be wiping our brow and looking after the car all day at the last event (think we got a special deal somewhere along the line!)
Hi Andrew,
I'm in Switzerland as well (Geneva) and I have an 1100 Clubsport. As far as radical event/support close by here is what I am aware of:
Swiss distributor does support / maintenance for track day events in the surrounding area (Magny cours, Dijon, Spa, Hockenhiem, 'Ring etc.) There is a team, PoleVision Racing, in Fribourg (http://www.polevisionracing.com/) that race in the European Masters series.
German distributor - I have seen these guys out at the same events as the Swiss (Hockenhiem, Spa, and 'Ring) I think they use the same track day organizer (http://www.pistenclub.com/ and http://www.racecarclub.ch/anmeldung.asp). The Germans also run a racing series in Germany as well as running in the European Masters series. I assume since you live in Zug you can get by in German.
I know that both the Germans and Swiss only run the SR3, for that reason I race in the UK but track day around here. I have raced the last 2 years with teams (Slipstream and Mansol) at 1/2 the price charged by Radical themselves.
I'm planning on going to the 2 day track day event at Hockenhiem at the end of September. Maybe you could see if either the Germans or Swiss will be there and check them out.
Hope this helps a bit.
Jon
I'm in Switzerland as well (Geneva) and I have an 1100 Clubsport. As far as radical event/support close by here is what I am aware of:
Swiss distributor does support / maintenance for track day events in the surrounding area (Magny cours, Dijon, Spa, Hockenhiem, 'Ring etc.) There is a team, PoleVision Racing, in Fribourg (http://www.polevisionracing.com/) that race in the European Masters series.
German distributor - I have seen these guys out at the same events as the Swiss (Hockenhiem, Spa, and 'Ring) I think they use the same track day organizer (http://www.pistenclub.com/ and http://www.racecarclub.ch/anmeldung.asp). The Germans also run a racing series in Germany as well as running in the European Masters series. I assume since you live in Zug you can get by in German.
I know that both the Germans and Swiss only run the SR3, for that reason I race in the UK but track day around here. I have raced the last 2 years with teams (Slipstream and Mansol) at 1/2 the price charged by Radical themselves.
I'm planning on going to the 2 day track day event at Hockenhiem at the end of September. Maybe you could see if either the Germans or Swiss will be there and check them out.
Hope this helps a bit.
Jon
AndrewD said:
I'm at the start of a hunt for another car, in all likelihood CN spec in case I want to do VdeV.
I had an SR3 so I know what to expect about Radicals. I'm more interested in how it drives rather than comparing them for what they are as machines (for instance: the Juno is rose jointed so in many ways is "superior" in terms of its construction to say a Radical with bushes etc, but since I'm not doing the spannering, I don't really care).
I'd need to take passengers from time to time on track days, I guess that rules out a Norma?
Anybody with real world experience of the differences?
Also, a long shot, anybody have experiences of somebody good to run the car (I'm based in Switzerland)?
juno I had an SR3 so I know what to expect about Radicals. I'm more interested in how it drives rather than comparing them for what they are as machines (for instance: the Juno is rose jointed so in many ways is "superior" in terms of its construction to say a Radical with bushes etc, but since I'm not doing the spannering, I don't really care).
I'd need to take passengers from time to time on track days, I guess that rules out a Norma?
Anybody with real world experience of the differences?
Also, a long shot, anybody have experiences of somebody good to run the car (I'm based in Switzerland)?
friend of the family is now working for them and looking after the V de V cars
they sound liek an impressive bunch of people
Edited by jackal on Saturday 23 August 01:38
Hey thanks Barry. I am asking for a price list - 5k for a front undertray sounds nice, is that integrated into the splitter though? Splitters were the issue on the Radical rather than the front undertray
I know a Juno will cost more to run, eg. engine refresh costs more but there are more hours between refreshes. Within reason I'm fine
I know a Juno will cost more to run, eg. engine refresh costs more but there are more hours between refreshes. Within reason I'm fine
Andrew,
I have owned both cars. A radical SR3 that burned in a fire and I now own a Juno SSE-V6.
The Radical was a good car. It is not in the same league as the Juno, though.
The Radical will be a lot of fun on track days, but will not be competitive in the VdeV series. This is dominated by the Liger, Norma, and Juno race cars.
The Juno handles better and has significantly more downforce. The difference is very noticeable. I am not a racer, I just run track days. I plan on racing next season.
If you need two seats this eliminates the Liger and Norma.
Ewan Baldry (the owner of Juno) will offer tremendous support. For example, I had a few issues with bodywork fit on my car. He flew from the U.K. to Michigan, USA, to make some modifications and make sure I was happy with the car. He spent three days here and offered tips on set-up and recommendations for maintenance, etc. I can't imagine anyone coming over from Radical to help out in that way.
Ewan is a genuinely nice person and totally devoted to making his company and race cars a success. He returns e-mails within an hour or two - usually less. I personally can't recommend his cars enough.
There is distributor of parts here in the USA and I have not had any trouble getting any parts I need with in 24 hours.
The engine is car based - Honda, for the VdeV, or Ford Duratec, or the Jaguar (Ford) V6 that I have in my car.
This another plus in my book since it has a tremendous amount of torque. It is easier to drive than the Radical and at the same time is much quicker.
The Juno has been much easier on tires also. I have only replaced one set in over 15 track days and that was because there were some cuts in the sidewall.
If you were in the U.S. I would be glad to give you a ride and show you the difference.
Good luck with your search. I hope you can get a test drive in a Juno or at least an up close look.
Feel free to e-mail me if you have any other questions at grant@kasteninsulation.com.
Cheers,
Grant
I have owned both cars. A radical SR3 that burned in a fire and I now own a Juno SSE-V6.
The Radical was a good car. It is not in the same league as the Juno, though.
The Radical will be a lot of fun on track days, but will not be competitive in the VdeV series. This is dominated by the Liger, Norma, and Juno race cars.
The Juno handles better and has significantly more downforce. The difference is very noticeable. I am not a racer, I just run track days. I plan on racing next season.
If you need two seats this eliminates the Liger and Norma.
Ewan Baldry (the owner of Juno) will offer tremendous support. For example, I had a few issues with bodywork fit on my car. He flew from the U.K. to Michigan, USA, to make some modifications and make sure I was happy with the car. He spent three days here and offered tips on set-up and recommendations for maintenance, etc. I can't imagine anyone coming over from Radical to help out in that way.
Ewan is a genuinely nice person and totally devoted to making his company and race cars a success. He returns e-mails within an hour or two - usually less. I personally can't recommend his cars enough.
There is distributor of parts here in the USA and I have not had any trouble getting any parts I need with in 24 hours.
The engine is car based - Honda, for the VdeV, or Ford Duratec, or the Jaguar (Ford) V6 that I have in my car.
This another plus in my book since it has a tremendous amount of torque. It is easier to drive than the Radical and at the same time is much quicker.
The Juno has been much easier on tires also. I have only replaced one set in over 15 track days and that was because there were some cuts in the sidewall.
If you were in the U.S. I would be glad to give you a ride and show you the difference.
Good luck with your search. I hope you can get a test drive in a Juno or at least an up close look.
Feel free to e-mail me if you have any other questions at grant@kasteninsulation.com.
Cheers,
Grant
Hi Grant
Thanks for the helpful post. I've now tested the Juno CN, and as far as I am concerned it is definately in another league to the SR3! More physical to drive, very stable, loved the paddle shift. Maybe it didn't feel quite as nimble as I'd expected - but that I think is down to the sheer amount of downforce with the fairly hard tyres (to last the endurance races). Heaven knows what it would be like on softer tyres! I've spent much time talking with Ewan by email, and dealt with Ian Hardy in person for my test - and I'd agree with you, refreshingly straight up and helpful.
I'm going to test the Norma and Ligier as well since all the cars are pretty close these days. Incidentally, I've seen pictures of 2-up in a Norma - apparently the 07 and 08 chassis can accomodate a passenger.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks for the helpful post. I've now tested the Juno CN, and as far as I am concerned it is definately in another league to the SR3! More physical to drive, very stable, loved the paddle shift. Maybe it didn't feel quite as nimble as I'd expected - but that I think is down to the sheer amount of downforce with the fairly hard tyres (to last the endurance races). Heaven knows what it would be like on softer tyres! I've spent much time talking with Ewan by email, and dealt with Ian Hardy in person for my test - and I'd agree with you, refreshingly straight up and helpful.
I'm going to test the Norma and Ligier as well since all the cars are pretty close these days. Incidentally, I've seen pictures of 2-up in a Norma - apparently the 07 and 08 chassis can accomodate a passenger.
Cheers
Andrew
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