Spa track day incident
Discussion
managed to convert the file to an uploadable version that photobucket would accept. sorry about the logo but the file converter was free.
this footage came from one of the trackside cameras they use in race control to direct the race.
race control said it was the fault of the Caterham for pulling across the track and hitting me when i was almost past him.
pitty he scarpered before i could get back to the pits on the back of a crane truck..... packed up and left the circuit... go figure!
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums-1/h243/dario-z4/...
this footage came from one of the trackside cameras they use in race control to direct the race.
race control said it was the fault of the Caterham for pulling across the track and hitting me when i was almost past him.
pitty he scarpered before i could get back to the pits on the back of a crane truck..... packed up and left the circuit... go figure!
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums-1/h243/dario-z4/...
Edited by DarioT on Friday 8th August 22:54
Edited by DarioT on Sunday 10th August 21:45
Edited by DarioT on Sunday 10th August 21:46
Ordinary Bloke said:
I know it's not what you want to hear, but it looks like an honest mistake, he didn't see you coming alongside. I hope the damage wasn't too bad (and the underwear can be washed)...
i can take that, but to bugger off and not explain himself.... or his side of the story. thats the difficult bit to get to grips with. good etiquette is important at these events. i would be horrified to have done this to somebody else.
It was most definitely the Caterham's mistake - it looks to me to be simply a genuine error on his part, with no malice at all - but it shows and underlines the importance of "discretion being the better (and way cheaper) part of valour" on a track day - several cars, a short straight and in that instance, I like to think (but I can't be sure!) that I'd have held back in the absence of a clear signal from him that "I've seen you, you're quicker, come on by". He certainly should have come and seen you afterwards and said "Sorry Mate, I just didn't see you coming", to which I assume you'd have said "Thanks for the apology Mate, one of those things, these things happen." I think the message here is just hold back until the next clear and certain opportunity; it's probably just a few seconds away; seconds that make all the difference between a full day's enjoyment and yet another 'damaged wallet'.
AndrewD said:
Ouch.
Had he indicated / waved you past Dario? Difficult for me to see from that video
I was hoping to come over and ask for a passenger lap (was in the Gulf Exige, sharing with my co-owners)
glad you asked. i had over taken many many cars all through the 2 days. a lot would signal, but it was not always common place to do so. often a small movement off line was sufficient to get the message that i could pass and this was employed by some.Had he indicated / waved you past Dario? Difficult for me to see from that video
I was hoping to come over and ask for a passenger lap (was in the Gulf Exige, sharing with my co-owners)
on this occassion i was looking at the driver and saw him look in the mirror. i took the movement to the right to be the move off line so i passed. there was no one more supprised that me and my passanger (who alos saw what i saw) when i was pased him and side swiped me just ahead of the front wheel. the car was fully 10ft sticking out past the front of his vehicle.
if he had crushed my nose i could understand.... but it was in the rear flank along way back from the front of the car. there is a little bit of me that thinks it was deliberate and thats why he scarpered!
just my opinion.
DarioT said:
AndrewD said:
Ouch.
Had he indicated / waved you past Dario? Difficult for me to see from that video
I was hoping to come over and ask for a passenger lap (was in the Gulf Exige, sharing with my co-owners)
glad you asked. i had over taken many many cars all through the 2 days. a lot would signal, but it was not always common place to do so. often a small movement off line was sufficient to get the message that i could pass and this was employed by some.Had he indicated / waved you past Dario? Difficult for me to see from that video
I was hoping to come over and ask for a passenger lap (was in the Gulf Exige, sharing with my co-owners)
on this occassion i was looking at the driver and saw him look in the mirror. i took the movement to the right to be the move off line so i passed. there was no one more supprised that me and my passanger (who alos saw what i saw) when i was pased him and side swiped me just ahead of the front wheel. the car was fully 10ft sticking out past the front of his vehicle.
if he had crushed my nose i could understand.... but it was in the rear flank along way back from the front of the car. there is a little bit of me that thinks it was deliberate and thats why he scarpered!
just my opinion.
Given your description of the overtake, it seems you overtook without an explicit signal from him. It was the exit of a quick corner which would have sent him out to the right anyway, and only a short straight before entry to Stavelot. As you say, people had been allowing you past like this before but it only takes one, a bit flustered seeming this red thing looming in his mirror, who knows.
Sorry about the damage ... at least it is "only" the wallet to suffer.
Having messed it in the first place and then totally disgracing himself by not having the round things to seek you out and apologise (i.e. doing a runner), I think he should try to make amends by at least meaningfully contributing to your costs. Do we know / can we find out who he was? Such as from the organiser? If we can find out and we find ourselves on a track day with him a) we can send him to Coventry (until he does the right thing as far as Dario is concerned) and b)give the bloke a seriously wide berth........!
splitpin said:
Having messed it in the first place and then totally disgracing himself by not having the round things to seek you out and apologise (i.e. doing a runner), I think he should try to make amends by at least meaningfully contributing to your costs. Do we know / can we find out who he was? Such as from the organiser? If we can find out and we find ourselves on a track day with him a) we can send him to Coventry (until he does the right thing as far as Dario is concerned) and b)give the bloke a seriously wide berth........!
Jonny at Bookatrack would not provide me the information.... i suppose its a data protection thing!but as we were all advised in the driver briefing on the monday all cars will be photographed and placed on the website!.... against the car owners name, so i'll bide my time until the photos are available. when i know who he was (it had a number plate T7 FUN) i will be able to approach im and ask for his support in repairing the car, and of course his side of the story.
i would much rather sort this out in a gentlmanly manner!
Glad no one hurt.
I very much doubt the collision was in anyway deliberate. From the video the caterham is using the same lines as the white 911 and I suspect he simply had no idea the radical was alongside.
The rad is much faster through the corner and actually gets alongside in the exit. I wonder if the cat driver still thought the tin top was behind him.
If it was a bat trackday I am sure Johnny was very clear in his briefing that overtaking should be by consent only. I don't see the cat moving off line and without a wave or a signal I might have hesitated before overtaking on what is a very short straight. (This is easy to say sitting with a laptop but I also might have gone for it in the excitement of a trackday).
Personally i don't see you can apportion blame unless he clearly waved the rad past and then sideswiped him. Shame though couldn't be resolved by a "sorry" in the pits afterwards. If it had been me I would have searched the other driver out if only to know they were OK.
Again the main thing is no one seems to have been hurt.
I very much doubt the collision was in anyway deliberate. From the video the caterham is using the same lines as the white 911 and I suspect he simply had no idea the radical was alongside.
The rad is much faster through the corner and actually gets alongside in the exit. I wonder if the cat driver still thought the tin top was behind him.
If it was a bat trackday I am sure Johnny was very clear in his briefing that overtaking should be by consent only. I don't see the cat moving off line and without a wave or a signal I might have hesitated before overtaking on what is a very short straight. (This is easy to say sitting with a laptop but I also might have gone for it in the excitement of a trackday).
Personally i don't see you can apportion blame unless he clearly waved the rad past and then sideswiped him. Shame though couldn't be resolved by a "sorry" in the pits afterwards. If it had been me I would have searched the other driver out if only to know they were OK.
Again the main thing is no one seems to have been hurt.
Having watch the footage, IMO it looks to be as much you fault as his. You made your move whilst he was still exiting the previous corner after being given no explicit signal. The fact that he looked in his mirror could be interpreted either way. As far as I can see he maintained the racing line and would have been looking right toward the next right hander and therefore would not have seen a car on his left hand side. As you were overtaking you must have seen him moving over, using the racing line, and had ample opportunity to back out of it.
I can appreciate your frustration at the fact that he left with no explanation, but I wouldn't necessarily take that as an admission of guilt. Some people simply don't like confrontation and will avoid it at all cost.
I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear, and for the damage, but that is my opinion based on the footage.
I can appreciate your frustration at the fact that he left with no explanation, but I wouldn't necessarily take that as an admission of guilt. Some people simply don't like confrontation and will avoid it at all cost.
I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear, and for the damage, but that is my opinion based on the footage.
1 said:
You made your move whilst he was still exiting the previous corner after being given no explicit signal. The fact that he looked in his mirror could be interpreted either way. As far as I can see he maintained the racing line and would have been looking right toward the next right hander and therefore would not have seen a car on his left hand side. As you were overtaking you must have seen him moving over, using the racing line, and had ample opportunity to back out of it.
Got to agree with the above , the Caterham was in front and maintained his line , the overtaking manouver looked somewhat "enthusiastic" given that this was on a track day.Accidents do happen on track days (and that's all it was - an accident), thats why we sign the indemnity forms.
It's not cricket to start pursuing people for costs etc - that's a very slippery slope...
Hi, it looked like a little tap, anyway track days are to push you and your car to a safe limit and no more if you do not understand, the size of your wallet does not eqaute to a good driver .so the responsibillity lies with the overtaken driver, with acknowledgement of the car in front to let you go .
ft
ft
RetroWheels said:
1 said:
You made your move whilst he was still exiting the previous corner after being given no explicit signal. The fact that he looked in his mirror could be interpreted either way. As far as I can see he maintained the racing line and would have been looking right toward the next right hander and therefore would not have seen a car on his left hand side. As you were overtaking you must have seen him moving over, using the racing line, and had ample opportunity to back out of it.
Got to agree with the above , the Caterham was in front and maintained his line , the overtaking manouver looked somewhat "enthusiastic" given that this was on a track day.Accidents do happen on track days (and that's all it was - an accident), thats why we sign the indemnity forms.
It's not cricket to start pursuing people for costs etc - that's a very slippery slope...
It was a track day, not a test day / race.
The radical driver was over enthusiastic in passing without clear consent and paid the price. He should take it like a man and stop moaning.
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