Newbie....Wheel Bearings.....Doh
Discussion
Hi all,
I recently bought a CS No.004.... yep thats about as early as they get. But it did have full data logging and push button gearchange etc so was not a bad buy..
Trouble is both the right hand side wheel bearings were shot or at least I thought they were but even with the new ones the wheels still have in my opinion too much play even with the rears tourqued to 250ft/lb's..even though Radical say some play is normal?
I have been doing some investigation and the BRT1004 bearings were origionally fitted to a Fiat Chiquichento (spelt nothing like that)not exactly a super fast car! Radical said that the origional clubsport was done on a budget and that was the only bearing they could source at the time (although they still use them today in the SR4 so you would have thought they could have had some specially made for the correct loads and duty i.e. a race car by now!)any way BRT technical guy said he would suggest fitting a double row taper bearing and managed to source 2 sizes 65x35x35 (renault 11/9) and 68x35x38 (Ibiza) (standard BRT1004 is 66x35x33)I am going to speak to radical and see if they will machine me a new upright to suit as it would only mean machining the bore 1mm smaller and cutting the split pin slot in 2mm higher for the smaller bearing if not i will try and get a unmachined one and do it myself.
I will try and talk radical into doing the work and maybe testing as I think its about time since they now have the money they invest some time into sorting some proper bearings for our racing cars!!!!!
What experiance's have you all had with wheel bearings....do they last long?
Cheers
Scott Hughes
Radical Clubsport 1100
I recently bought a CS No.004.... yep thats about as early as they get. But it did have full data logging and push button gearchange etc so was not a bad buy..
Trouble is both the right hand side wheel bearings were shot or at least I thought they were but even with the new ones the wheels still have in my opinion too much play even with the rears tourqued to 250ft/lb's..even though Radical say some play is normal?
I have been doing some investigation and the BRT1004 bearings were origionally fitted to a Fiat Chiquichento (spelt nothing like that)not exactly a super fast car! Radical said that the origional clubsport was done on a budget and that was the only bearing they could source at the time (although they still use them today in the SR4 so you would have thought they could have had some specially made for the correct loads and duty i.e. a race car by now!)any way BRT technical guy said he would suggest fitting a double row taper bearing and managed to source 2 sizes 65x35x35 (renault 11/9) and 68x35x38 (Ibiza) (standard BRT1004 is 66x35x33)I am going to speak to radical and see if they will machine me a new upright to suit as it would only mean machining the bore 1mm smaller and cutting the split pin slot in 2mm higher for the smaller bearing if not i will try and get a unmachined one and do it myself.
I will try and talk radical into doing the work and maybe testing as I think its about time since they now have the money they invest some time into sorting some proper bearings for our racing cars!!!!!
What experiance's have you all had with wheel bearings....do they last long?
Cheers
Scott Hughes
Radical Clubsport 1100
We've been using SKF bearings which seem to be a slight improvement over the Premier bearings Radical sells. That number is SKF BAH-0015E. Wheel bearing life has a lot of variables but I don't find them to last particularly wrong and they're REALLY easy to damage when installing.
I also did a thread on how to replace a wheel bearing on my Prosport (should be the same on a clubsport):
http://socalpeeps.yuku.com/topic/657
I also did a thread on how to replace a wheel bearing on my Prosport (should be the same on a clubsport):
http://socalpeeps.yuku.com/topic/657
NASA racer said:
We've been using SKF bearings which seem to be a slight improvement over the Premier bearings Radical sells. That number is SKF BAH-0015E. Wheel bearing life has a lot of variables but I don't find them to last particularly wrong and they're REALLY easy to damage when installing.
I also did a thread on how to replace a wheel bearing on my Prosport (should be the same on a clubsport):
http://socalpeeps.yuku.com/topic/657
Thanks, I also did a thread on how to replace a wheel bearing on my Prosport (should be the same on a clubsport):
http://socalpeeps.yuku.com/topic/657
I have just re-read your post very good! this is how I replaced mine.. you mention worn hubs? I assume this is the centre bit that the drive shaft fits into? what about worn uprights? can these have an effect the wheel woble? I am purchasing some SKF bearings tomorrow so I will see if they are any better, and I will also check the play in a new bearing as maybe I have toasted (as you put it) my bearing while fitting them as you suggest this is quite easy....
Yes, if there is any free play with the bearing in the upright or the hub in the bearing, this "wobble" will quickly destroy the bearing. To make matters even more complicated, these bearings sometimes have a "sloppy" and a "tight" side...the inner bearing is split so feel if there is more free play on one half than on the other...if there IS (and I usually find there is), then install the "sloppy" side IN the upright and keep the "tight" side out. This reduces overall play.
I think some of the problems I've had have been with using solid rear rotors with no cooling ducts...heat may be a factor in the relatively short life my rear bearings have. I check them after every race weekend and find that I am lucky to get a season out of rear bearings. Haven't really had any issues with the fronts but they have a relatively easy live compared to the rear since there's no driveline forces in them.
Double-check everything...we've found some odd differences between cars. Mine is chassis 090 and earlier cars MAY have some differences so measure everything before installing to be sure I'm not giving you a bearing that might be a bit "off" your hub/upright.
I think some of the problems I've had have been with using solid rear rotors with no cooling ducts...heat may be a factor in the relatively short life my rear bearings have. I check them after every race weekend and find that I am lucky to get a season out of rear bearings. Haven't really had any issues with the fronts but they have a relatively easy live compared to the rear since there's no driveline forces in them.
Double-check everything...we've found some odd differences between cars. Mine is chassis 090 and earlier cars MAY have some differences so measure everything before installing to be sure I'm not giving you a bearing that might be a bit "off" your hub/upright.
Oh and I've been much more careful with freezing/heating the parts...I've been "baking" my uprights at 200 degrees F for about half an hour and putting my bearings in the freezer for the same period of time...after I press the bearings in, I put the unit in the sun and let it return to ambient temperature over maybe an hour before pressing the frozen hub into the bearing. Due to the ease of damaging the bearings during install, I've been more and more careful about heating/cooling/supporting everything and I always buy "spare" bearings for when I do screw one up pressing it in.
Hi Scott
The wheel bearings used for the Club/Prosports were also specified for the Fiat Punto (as I found out when I bought a set from a motor factor). When you consider that a Punto with luggage and four well-built Italians will weigh the best part of one and a half tonnes, the use of these bearings on a Clubsport doesn't seem quite so inappropriate (all-up weight with one well-built Englishman, about 550kg
). It might be that the Prosport is more prone to shorter bearing life since, not only is it a tad heavier than a Clubsport, but also generates more down-force, hence more cornering force and hence more offset side-load on the bearings - particularly the more heavily-loaded rear ones.
I think Pete's advise regarding installation is spot on - you wont install the bearings reliably without proper tooling and ideally a solid hydraulic press and someone who knows how to use it. The use of a press will avoid the need to warm the upright and freeze the bearing - though if you've got access to a press and you can warm the upright/freeze the bearing as well, then that's got to be the best way.
If your interested, on my PC at work I have drawings of the tooling that I had made up to press the old bearing out and press the new bearing in. I could email them to you Monday if you like.
Laurence
The wheel bearings used for the Club/Prosports were also specified for the Fiat Punto (as I found out when I bought a set from a motor factor). When you consider that a Punto with luggage and four well-built Italians will weigh the best part of one and a half tonnes, the use of these bearings on a Clubsport doesn't seem quite so inappropriate (all-up weight with one well-built Englishman, about 550kg
). It might be that the Prosport is more prone to shorter bearing life since, not only is it a tad heavier than a Clubsport, but also generates more down-force, hence more cornering force and hence more offset side-load on the bearings - particularly the more heavily-loaded rear ones.I think Pete's advise regarding installation is spot on - you wont install the bearings reliably without proper tooling and ideally a solid hydraulic press and someone who knows how to use it. The use of a press will avoid the need to warm the upright and freeze the bearing - though if you've got access to a press and you can warm the upright/freeze the bearing as well, then that's got to be the best way.
If your interested, on my PC at work I have drawings of the tooling that I had made up to press the old bearing out and press the new bearing in. I could email them to you Monday if you like.
Laurence
Laurence7 said:
Hi Scott
The wheel bearings used for the Club/Prosports were also specified for the Fiat Punto (as I found out when I bought a set from a motor factor). When you consider that a Punto with luggage and four well-built Italians will weigh the best part of one and a half tonnes, the use of these bearings on a Clubsport doesn't seem quite so inappropriate (all-up weight with one well-built Englishman, about 550kg). It might be that the Prosport is more prone to shorter bearing life since, not only is it a tad heavier than a Clubsport, but also generates more down-force, hence more cornering force and hence more offset side-load on the bearings - particularly the more heavily-loaded rear ones.
I think Pete's advise regarding installation is spot on - you wont install the bearings reliably without proper tooling and ideally a solid hydraulic press and someone who knows how to use it. The use of a press will avoid the need to warm the upright and freeze the bearing - though if you've got access to a press and you can warm the upright/freeze the bearing as well, then that's got to be the best way.
If your interested, on my PC at work I have drawings of the tooling that I had made up to press the old bearing out and press the new bearing in. I could email them to you Monday if you like.
Laurence
Laurence, The wheel bearings used for the Club/Prosports were also specified for the Fiat Punto (as I found out when I bought a set from a motor factor). When you consider that a Punto with luggage and four well-built Italians will weigh the best part of one and a half tonnes, the use of these bearings on a Clubsport doesn't seem quite so inappropriate (all-up weight with one well-built Englishman, about 550kg
). It might be that the Prosport is more prone to shorter bearing life since, not only is it a tad heavier than a Clubsport, but also generates more down-force, hence more cornering force and hence more offset side-load on the bearings - particularly the more heavily-loaded rear ones.I think Pete's advise regarding installation is spot on - you wont install the bearings reliably without proper tooling and ideally a solid hydraulic press and someone who knows how to use it. The use of a press will avoid the need to warm the upright and freeze the bearing - though if you've got access to a press and you can warm the upright/freeze the bearing as well, then that's got to be the best way.
If your interested, on my PC at work I have drawings of the tooling that I had made up to press the old bearing out and press the new bearing in. I could email them to you Monday if you like.
Laurence
Fare point referance the weight of the fully loaded car! although I don't think a punto will be able to generate the same side loading as a CS or PS as you pointed out.
Thanks for the offer of the tooling drawings but I have allready made the tooling required when I fitted the bearings. (I have access to a fully fitted toolmaking shop, hydraulic press and I used to be a toolmaker so I know what I am doing)I am going to be trying some of the SKF bearings next week, and will be extra careful when pushing the hub into the bearing after checking the amount of play already apparent in the bearing! I will let you know how I get on... I have a feeling my uprights are worn and the bearing is not being compressed as much as required by the required interferance fit in the upright BRT said this would effect the overall play in the bearing... So I maybe getting my credit card out for some new uprights!
Right...I tried some new SKF bearing I bought today and they have the same play in them as the others... this was tested before I pushed the hub in so i know I have not damaged them... So I moved onto plan B I ground 1.5 thou about 0.035mm off the front face of the parts in the center of the bearing after removing them from the bearing........ and hey presto no more play! the bearings still feel free running and don't seem to have been affected by being stripped apart, some play still exists when only a small amount of clamping pressure is applied to the bearing but once about 80ft/lbs is applied the play is gone! I will let you know how I get on with them at Donnington! Fingers crossed
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