Racing/Track Days
Discussion
I'm considering swapping my road 997 for a SR4 or Prosport to initially use for track days but eventually race when up to speed. Any of you guys done similar and can comment on the smile per pound ratio of each? Have you found running a track/race car more fun than a fast road car with one offering outright performance but on limited days per year with the other more every day usability but not to the same level?
The 997 is a great car but ultimately a little frustrating as it can't really be used to it's full potential on the roads and is potentially expensive to chuck in the tyres at a track day. I have a fair amount of experience racing various sorts of karts and this is the ultimate goal, can't beat the feeling of actually racing somebody once you have got used to the power of a new car.
What sort of life do you get out of tyres on a radical using it on track days and racing? Am I right in thinking that the going rate for a set of race tyres (Matador, Avon, etc) is about £500 plus VAT? What other costs should I be thinking about with a Radical?
Thanks
The 997 is a great car but ultimately a little frustrating as it can't really be used to it's full potential on the roads and is potentially expensive to chuck in the tyres at a track day. I have a fair amount of experience racing various sorts of karts and this is the ultimate goal, can't beat the feeling of actually racing somebody once you have got used to the power of a new car.
What sort of life do you get out of tyres on a radical using it on track days and racing? Am I right in thinking that the going rate for a set of race tyres (Matador, Avon, etc) is about £500 plus VAT? What other costs should I be thinking about with a Radical?
Thanks
hmmm, it's the Radical forum, I wonder what answers you will get??!!
Seriously though, I bought a clubsport for trackday use and it is just so much fun. The clubsport is going to be the cheapest Rad about, but for trackdays it's a fantastic car, bucket loads of smiles. I also have a caterham which is also great fun on track. The Rad is better, but a bit more effort. It's harder to get the bodywork on and off for example and I seem to have to take more bits with me.
As for costs...a CS is cheap (relatively), you dont get through tyres that easily unless you do loads of days and there are generally 2nd hand ones about anyway. The main cost is going to be that of an engine refresh (1500-3000) or a replacement if you toast one.
Of course if you want to get into more modern, flasher looking Rads like the SR4, you will spend more money on it originally and prob want to make a better (read more expensive) job of maintenance. So for example a friend parked my CS in the tyres at Goodwood. If it was a nice pristine SR4, you'd want to put it back to proper condition. On the CS the wounds make it more authentic!!
A CS is going to set you back 8k-10k, an SR4 easily doubel that. Not double the fun though.
If you are racing, then you might need to choose your model depending on where you want to race.
Graham
Seriously though, I bought a clubsport for trackday use and it is just so much fun. The clubsport is going to be the cheapest Rad about, but for trackdays it's a fantastic car, bucket loads of smiles. I also have a caterham which is also great fun on track. The Rad is better, but a bit more effort. It's harder to get the bodywork on and off for example and I seem to have to take more bits with me.
As for costs...a CS is cheap (relatively), you dont get through tyres that easily unless you do loads of days and there are generally 2nd hand ones about anyway. The main cost is going to be that of an engine refresh (1500-3000) or a replacement if you toast one.
Of course if you want to get into more modern, flasher looking Rads like the SR4, you will spend more money on it originally and prob want to make a better (read more expensive) job of maintenance. So for example a friend parked my CS in the tyres at Goodwood. If it was a nice pristine SR4, you'd want to put it back to proper condition. On the CS the wounds make it more authentic!!
A CS is going to set you back 8k-10k, an SR4 easily doubel that. Not double the fun though.
If you are racing, then you might need to choose your model depending on where you want to race.
Graham
buy my clubsport it has full aero kit and will be a good intro for you when you get used to it you can move up to the next level. The prosport is seriously fast and in my opinion is the wrng car to start with. the clubsport will be plenty fast enough for you if you are using a 997 i drive a turbo 996 every day and the clubsport will murder it on a dry track you can see the car in the classified under motorsports track only section thanks
Thanks for your comments guys.
Gridgway - a subconcious attempt to slew the results in the Radicals favour on my behalf perhaps! A fairly unanimous result that track driving a Radical is more fun, perhaps I should try posting the same question on Rennteam or similar...
Wise words about the clubsport cost/pound being much better value than a more modern car - and the experience level required to drive either. I raced gearbox karts for a few years (short circuit only) so have some experience driving stupidly quick machines. Just to set me straight, a Clubsport puts out about 160bhp, SR4/Propsort about 195. Does that make the latter so much quicker or harder to drive?
bazzerv8 - looks like a good package. I'll see if you are still there when it comes to it.
Gridgway - a subconcious attempt to slew the results in the Radicals favour on my behalf perhaps! A fairly unanimous result that track driving a Radical is more fun, perhaps I should try posting the same question on Rennteam or similar...
Wise words about the clubsport cost/pound being much better value than a more modern car - and the experience level required to drive either. I raced gearbox karts for a few years (short circuit only) so have some experience driving stupidly quick machines. Just to set me straight, a Clubsport puts out about 160bhp, SR4/Propsort about 195. Does that make the latter so much quicker or harder to drive?
bazzerv8 - looks like a good package. I'll see if you are still there when it comes to it.
Hi Nick, I too am an ex kart racer. IMHO with your karting experiance you will not find any of the Radicals a handfull to drive. I have a 1100 clubsports that we use for track days only. In the dry I can push it hard, it is very forgiving and not difficult to catch when it starts to slide. In the wet on a good set up its like a kart, understeer in with lot's right foot control required on the way out! On track days most of the SR3's and 4's are quicker than us but it depends who is 
We are often as quick through the corners but get done on the straights. Having said that any Radical with a proper aero package and a good driver is seriously quick tool. Don't forget that only the SR3 and SR4's are two seaters which is even more fun on track days. Good luck if you decide to go racing IMHO grass roots level (750MC) with a Clubsport should not cost too much. To get good results amongst the big boys (Radical Cup etc) you will need spend lot's to buy the best equipment and have a good back up team.
We are often as quick through the corners but get done on the straights. Having said that any Radical with a proper aero package and a good driver is seriously quick tool. Don't forget that only the SR3 and SR4's are two seaters which is even more fun on track days. Good luck if you decide to go racing IMHO grass roots level (750MC) with a Clubsport should not cost too much. To get good results amongst the big boys (Radical Cup etc) you will need spend lot's to buy the best equipment and have a good back up team. Hi nick,
i race 250 superkarts long circuit with the British Superkart Association and earlier this year bought a clubsport for some racing next year. We were at the same races this year with radical at croft and also some were at castle combe GT.
Comparing a superkart to a radical is summarised by the fact that after 20mins in a superkart you need a day recovery where i can do a whole day tracking the clubsport. Nothing compares to the thrill/speed/sensation of a superkart but then i havnet been in an F3 or F1 car.
A radical handles very similar in many respects and you will take to it immediately, the speed sensation is still there but in a "softer" form.
I went for a clubsport as i didnt think another £15k was worth it for just another second a lap.
I have run my car since august doing 5 trackdays with a total over over 10hours running and all i have done is spanner check it fill it with fuel and away i go. (oh once the battery was dead)
A world away from karts
After a days tracking the clubsport when i get in my exige it feels like it handles like a milk float. - cant reccomend one enough!
cheers
i race 250 superkarts long circuit with the British Superkart Association and earlier this year bought a clubsport for some racing next year. We were at the same races this year with radical at croft and also some were at castle combe GT.
Comparing a superkart to a radical is summarised by the fact that after 20mins in a superkart you need a day recovery where i can do a whole day tracking the clubsport. Nothing compares to the thrill/speed/sensation of a superkart but then i havnet been in an F3 or F1 car.
A radical handles very similar in many respects and you will take to it immediately, the speed sensation is still there but in a "softer" form.
I went for a clubsport as i didnt think another £15k was worth it for just another second a lap.
I have run my car since august doing 5 trackdays with a total over over 10hours running and all i have done is spanner check it fill it with fuel and away i go. (oh once the battery was dead)
A world away from karts
After a days tracking the clubsport when i get in my exige it feels like it handles like a milk float. - cant reccomend one enough!
cheers
Hi Nick
Had the very same feel (track car instead of fast road car) but somehow ended up with both. The awesome focused track car is an amazing drug, you can never kick it once hooked, but if you're anything like me you'll miss the fun you *can* have on road.
As to which Radical, well I guess you can't really go wrong. The SR4 or even SR3 benefit from being the latest in a line of developments, are shinier (if that is important to you, and I'm not making any judgements either way), and have 2 seats (definately preferable for me anyway for track days). But the Clubsports are great fun too. Don't know anything about gearbox karts, I came to my SR3 from a Caterham SLR/R400 and the biggest difference was getting used to the invisible hand of downforce. Amazingly stupidly addictive amounts of speed to be carried into corners. And very effective brakes!
Main cost doing track days, apart from the obvious tyres which last according to your driving, is engine refreshes (oil changes cost bugger all obviously). 30 hours for a 1500 SR3 (no idea about CS engine) I guess equates to once pa if you're doing a reasonable number of track days. Front splitters are also something people can get through (1-2 a year).
Cheers
Andrew
Had the very same feel (track car instead of fast road car) but somehow ended up with both. The awesome focused track car is an amazing drug, you can never kick it once hooked, but if you're anything like me you'll miss the fun you *can* have on road.
As to which Radical, well I guess you can't really go wrong. The SR4 or even SR3 benefit from being the latest in a line of developments, are shinier (if that is important to you, and I'm not making any judgements either way), and have 2 seats (definately preferable for me anyway for track days). But the Clubsports are great fun too. Don't know anything about gearbox karts, I came to my SR3 from a Caterham SLR/R400 and the biggest difference was getting used to the invisible hand of downforce. Amazingly stupidly addictive amounts of speed to be carried into corners. And very effective brakes!
Main cost doing track days, apart from the obvious tyres which last according to your driving, is engine refreshes (oil changes cost bugger all obviously). 30 hours for a 1500 SR3 (no idea about CS engine) I guess equates to once pa if you're doing a reasonable number of track days. Front splitters are also something people can get through (1-2 a year).
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks Silv, Craig. Definitely looking at the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to the racing, 750MC looking like the one to go for. Race team includes wife, child and dog so don't want to show up those in the Radical Biduros...
One of things I found with gearbox karts (125's) is that you are very busy in a lap, constantly changing gear up, down, ferocious acceleration or standing on the brakes, very tiring and difficult but also extremely rewarding when you get it right. Craig - I take it from your comments that things are much less hectic in a Radical?
I found I was more competitive at somewhere like Rissington where you have flowing bends that you get the best times from by being very smooth, setting the kart up for the corner and letting it flow through without getting out of line. I'd often feel the gap close to the bloke in front at corners like this and then lose out at the two hairpins. I think this probably came from my time in direct drive karts (TKM mainly - low power stuff) where you do everything you can to maintain momentum, making sure that the kart doesn't slide at all. Do you think this driving style lends itself to Rad's?
One of things I found with gearbox karts (125's) is that you are very busy in a lap, constantly changing gear up, down, ferocious acceleration or standing on the brakes, very tiring and difficult but also extremely rewarding when you get it right. Craig - I take it from your comments that things are much less hectic in a Radical?
I found I was more competitive at somewhere like Rissington where you have flowing bends that you get the best times from by being very smooth, setting the kart up for the corner and letting it flow through without getting out of line. I'd often feel the gap close to the bloke in front at corners like this and then lose out at the two hairpins. I think this probably came from my time in direct drive karts (TKM mainly - low power stuff) where you do everything you can to maintain momentum, making sure that the kart doesn't slide at all. Do you think this driving style lends itself to Rad's?
You can set the car up how you like, I prefer the car to move around a bit so I know what its doing. As for driving style, fast in, fast around and faster out 
Depending in what part of the country you're in the Castle Combe GTs are worth a look, I did my first season there this year.
Depending in what part of the country you're in the Castle Combe GTs are worth a look, I did my first season there this year.things are much less hectic yes...very smooth, forgiving and easy to drive fast...you can make the odd mistake and get away with it mostly...really complimentary machine.
Superkarts on long circuit without suspension are brutal and maybe one of the most hardcore forms of motorsport at the moment ... 160mph an 1" off the floor takes some getting used to.
The difference on long circuit as apposed to short circuit karting is different again as long is more about pure "balls" with fitness and kart set up almost 2ndry. The fact that 4 people have copped it over the last 2 years and that maybe i havnt got the balls to win prompted me to go radical as it would seem the nearest thing closed wheels to a kart.
clubsport gotta be a good idea for an entry level as if its not for you you aint gonna loose much money on the machine.... if any. oh and a spare engine can be sourced from £500 to £1000.
cheers
Superkarts on long circuit without suspension are brutal and maybe one of the most hardcore forms of motorsport at the moment ... 160mph an 1" off the floor takes some getting used to.
The difference on long circuit as apposed to short circuit karting is different again as long is more about pure "balls" with fitness and kart set up almost 2ndry. The fact that 4 people have copped it over the last 2 years and that maybe i havnt got the balls to win prompted me to go radical as it would seem the nearest thing closed wheels to a kart.
clubsport gotta be a good idea for an entry level as if its not for you you aint gonna loose much money on the machine.... if any. oh and a spare engine can be sourced from £500 to £1000.
cheers
Nick,
I ran (trackday) my clubsport 1100 this year half of the time with support of a team and the other half with my wife as pit crew. Body work is light and easy to remove (necessary on my clubsport) in order to oil chain and add gas. I hadn't raced before, only goofing around with friends on karts, and I really haven't had any major traumas. I think that the cars become more of a handful as you approach 100%. I'm probably more like around 85%... I maybe slow but at least I'm consistent
Even at my slow pace, I'm frequently quicker than people in Porsche, Ferrar and "M" BMW's. My M3 handles like a pig compared to the clubsport.
If two seats are an issue, you can always have a conversion to make it 2 seats (I had this done, as well as, of few others here.
Cheers
I ran (trackday) my clubsport 1100 this year half of the time with support of a team and the other half with my wife as pit crew. Body work is light and easy to remove (necessary on my clubsport) in order to oil chain and add gas. I hadn't raced before, only goofing around with friends on karts, and I really haven't had any major traumas. I think that the cars become more of a handful as you approach 100%. I'm probably more like around 85%... I maybe slow but at least I'm consistent
Even at my slow pace, I'm frequently quicker than people in Porsche, Ferrar and "M" BMW's. My M3 handles like a pig compared to the clubsport. If two seats are an issue, you can always have a conversion to make it 2 seats (I had this done, as well as, of few others here.
Cheers
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