how to set up the TPS
Discussion
Hi guys
after cleaning the throttle Body of my SR3 the engine dosn't fire up. Spark is ok and I have fuel.
After I went trough SR3 Trouble Shooting I noticed that I missed to set up the TPS.
I dont have he USB connentor so I tried to st up the TPS with the Volt meter. But I don't know which is the correct value for the cosed throttle.
I found 4 different values. 0,2 V and 0,35- 0,37 V which I already tried. Also I read that 2 V is correct but I can't setit up to 2??? Ad Radical Service manuel is a value of 4.0 termend. But I don't know if this are Volt or apple?
Could anybody help?
Cheers
after cleaning the throttle Body of my SR3 the engine dosn't fire up. Spark is ok and I have fuel.
After I went trough SR3 Trouble Shooting I noticed that I missed to set up the TPS.
I dont have he USB connentor so I tried to st up the TPS with the Volt meter. But I don't know which is the correct value for the cosed throttle.
I found 4 different values. 0,2 V and 0,35- 0,37 V which I already tried. Also I read that 2 V is correct but I can't setit up to 2??? Ad Radical Service manuel is a value of 4.0 termend. But I don't know if this are Volt or apple?
Could anybody help?
Cheers
It depends which ECU you are running and what the throttle map is configured at.
For example, I'm running an MBE ECU with a Radical map and the throttle map is set up for 0.37v at idle (load site zero).
I haven't seen recommendations for 0.2v anywhere. I have seen 1.22-1.25v but this is for the standard hayabusa engine management system, not Radical engine management (MBE or Life). I suppose 0.2v might be the correct value if you have a Life ECU but I don't speak from any experience.
I definitely don't think 2v is correct.
The more recent SR3 manual says set it at 4% but this refers to the Life ECU and to do that you need a laptop connected to it. I note 4% of 5v is 0.2v.
What engine and what ECU have you got? I have just done all this with an MBE ECU and Jenvey's on a 1400 and the correct voltage was 0.37. I have the benefit of being able to see the map on my car though.
For example, I'm running an MBE ECU with a Radical map and the throttle map is set up for 0.37v at idle (load site zero).
I haven't seen recommendations for 0.2v anywhere. I have seen 1.22-1.25v but this is for the standard hayabusa engine management system, not Radical engine management (MBE or Life). I suppose 0.2v might be the correct value if you have a Life ECU but I don't speak from any experience.
I definitely don't think 2v is correct.
The more recent SR3 manual says set it at 4% but this refers to the Life ECU and to do that you need a laptop connected to it. I note 4% of 5v is 0.2v.
What engine and what ECU have you got? I have just done all this with an MBE ECU and Jenvey's on a 1400 and the correct voltage was 0.37. I have the benefit of being able to see the map on my car though.
Edited by ric355 on Friday 18th July 22:50
BertBert said:
tracker11 said:
Could anybody help?
maybe the boys themselves at RPE? Contrary to popular opinion, they do answer the phone and occasionally know what they are on about 
Give us a call if you are having problems.
Did you make sure the throttle is cracked open slightly before setting the tps? It needs to be a very small amount 7-8kgs per hour. Visually you can hardly tell the butterfly is open. If you have that then start at 0.2v and keep trying it and adjusting by say 0.2v at a time until it catches. You should eventually find the right point.
When trying each voltage you can also make sure there is enough air by operating the throttle butterflies using the quadrant under the bodies where the throttle cable is attached with your free hand.
Another thing to make sure is you have the tps on the right way around. The voltage should increase when you open the throttle and it should open all of the way (butterflies at 90 degrees roughly). Ask me how I know ;-)
Hopefully you've only removed the bodies as a set so the balance between them should be unchanged. You may have to readjust the idle once you've found the correct voltage.
It's a tricky business without an ecu interface to set everything up. Even if you get it started you may end up with it running too rich or too lean because it'll run with the load site above zero at idle but way too rich. I'd get hold of one if I were you.
When trying each voltage you can also make sure there is enough air by operating the throttle butterflies using the quadrant under the bodies where the throttle cable is attached with your free hand.
Another thing to make sure is you have the tps on the right way around. The voltage should increase when you open the throttle and it should open all of the way (butterflies at 90 degrees roughly). Ask me how I know ;-)
Hopefully you've only removed the bodies as a set so the balance between them should be unchanged. You may have to readjust the idle once you've found the correct voltage.
It's a tricky business without an ecu interface to set everything up. Even if you get it started you may end up with it running too rich or too lean because it'll run with the load site above zero at idle but way too rich. I'd get hold of one if I were you.
Thanks for your Support guys. Sound like a tricky Job to set the TPS without the correct Tools 
Unfortunately I don't get the engine started today. I set TPS to 0.2 V at idle and tried it 3 or 4 time. Nothing. After a brake I tried it again buy moving the TPS slowly during engine cranking. Again nothing (but I'm not sure if this was the best way?)
I can confirm that the TPS is installed in the correct way. Voltage increase when throttle is opening. When the Butterflies are complety open the Voltage is about 4.2 V and I can adjust the TPS voltage from 0.07 to 1.72 at idle.
I will simplify this Job and buy a ecu Interface to read out the correct TPS value. Is the AD0109 - Download Lead from Radical the correct part to use Easimap 6?
I will also buy a tool to adjust the airmass, does anyone has a recommendation?
Unfortunately I don't get the engine started today. I set TPS to 0.2 V at idle and tried it 3 or 4 time. Nothing. After a brake I tried it again buy moving the TPS slowly during engine cranking. Again nothing (but I'm not sure if this was the best way?)
I can confirm that the TPS is installed in the correct way. Voltage increase when throttle is opening. When the Butterflies are complety open the Voltage is about 4.2 V and I can adjust the TPS voltage from 0.07 to 1.72 at idle.
I will simplify this Job and buy a ecu Interface to read out the correct TPS value. Is the AD0109 - Download Lead from Radical the correct part to use Easimap 6?
I will also buy a tool to adjust the airmass, does anyone has a recommendation?
Just a word of warning on the ECU interface. Radical's MBE ECUs are locked by default and you can't access them. So unless your ECU is already unlocked you won't be able to download the map and therefore won't be able to see how the throttle curve is configured.
Unfortunately there's no way you can tell this until you buy the interface and connect it up. Even if the ECU is locked though, all of the diagnostic information is still accessible so it's still worth having.
The interface can be had from SBD Motorsport. Give them a ring and they'll be able to tell you exactly what you need. It's an MBE985 interface you need.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Engine_Management_Systems/E...
(MBE-MAP-KIT-3-CAN MBE985)
I'll repeat something I said above. The correct TPS voltage at idle is entirely dependent upon the content of the throttle curve as configured in the map. It may well be the case that they come out of the box from Radical at 0.2v these days with the Life ECU, but if you take my current MBE 992b ECU as an example (which was a locked Radical ECU), I had Radical load a base map on it for me for a 1400 powertec engine and the throttle curve starts at 0.37v.
Edited to add: This will do the airflow measurement:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Synchrometer-SK-Model-Fi...
Unfortunately there's no way you can tell this until you buy the interface and connect it up. Even if the ECU is locked though, all of the diagnostic information is still accessible so it's still worth having.
The interface can be had from SBD Motorsport. Give them a ring and they'll be able to tell you exactly what you need. It's an MBE985 interface you need.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Engine_Management_Systems/E...
(MBE-MAP-KIT-3-CAN MBE985)
I'll repeat something I said above. The correct TPS voltage at idle is entirely dependent upon the content of the throttle curve as configured in the map. It may well be the case that they come out of the box from Radical at 0.2v these days with the Life ECU, but if you take my current MBE 992b ECU as an example (which was a locked Radical ECU), I had Radical load a base map on it for me for a 1400 powertec engine and the throttle curve starts at 0.37v.
Edited to add: This will do the airflow measurement:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Synchrometer-SK-Model-Fi...
Edited by ric355 on Sunday 20th July 20:44
I already tried 0,37 V but it don't work. Also 0,2 V is not working so I'm a little bit clueless?!?
Before I noticed that I have to adjust the TPS I have set the TPS to about 0,75 V by accident. At this TPS setting the engine tried to fire up and also starts for less then 1 second. At 0,37 and 0,2 it sounds like the engine has no spark or fuel. Of course it tested both and the fuel and spark are fine.
So I hope I will get the correct voltage with the ECU interface. Otherwise this will get really tricky
Before I noticed that I have to adjust the TPS I have set the TPS to about 0,75 V by accident. At this TPS setting the engine tried to fire up and also starts for less then 1 second. At 0,37 and 0,2 it sounds like the engine has no spark or fuel. Of course it tested both and the fuel and spark are fine.
So I hope I will get the correct voltage with the ECU interface. Otherwise this will get really tricky
If there is a point where you can get it to start for a short period, try holding the throttle open slightly by operating the linkage underneath the throttle bodies to see if you can get it to run for longer. It might be the mechanical idle setting is wrong or the balance between the throttle butterflies is out.
Actually I can't believe that the enigne doesn't start because of the wrong the TPS Setting. I just tried a few voltage from 0.1 up to 0.7
I did a short Video Clips when trying to start the engine. I bought the Radical just a few weeks ago so I'm not so familiare with the SR3 yet. Before I removed the thottle Body to clean it the Raical straight fired up but doesn't run s well. I guess this was because of bad Setting of the butterflies, but just a guess. Maybe someone can notice a strange think at the Video Clip which helps me to identify the fault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZOWWz9kc8k&fe...
I did a short Video Clips when trying to start the engine. I bought the Radical just a few weeks ago so I'm not so familiare with the SR3 yet. Before I removed the thottle Body to clean it the Raical straight fired up but doesn't run s well. I guess this was because of bad Setting of the butterflies, but just a guess. Maybe someone can notice a strange think at the Video Clip which helps me to identify the fault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZOWWz9kc8k&fe...
It's difficult to see from the vid but it looks like the butterflies are all fully closed? If so try adjusting the throttle stop to have then slightly open . Try it, if that fails open them some more and try again
did you remove the plug leads, if so do you have them back on in the correct order?
Are you getting a good healthy spark.
when you turn over the engine with no plugs, ignition on do you see, smell fuel coming from the plug holes?
Simon
did you remove the plug leads, if so do you have them back on in the correct order?
Are you getting a good healthy spark.
when you turn over the engine with no plugs, ignition on do you see, smell fuel coming from the plug holes?
Simon
Agree it's difficult to see from the vid whether the throttles are open at all, but they will look almost fully closed anyway when set right for idle air flow.
Either open them a bit with the idle screw, or just do as I suggested before and push on the throttle quadrant with your hand while trying to start it. If it sounds like it wants to fire up you get a suggestion that it needs opening more. Note if you open them permanently with the idle screw this changes the throttle pot setting and you'll have to adjust it again.
In case you haven't realized, the idle screw is just to the right of where the throttle cable attaches to the throttle bodies on the rear i.e just behind the injector rail - it's an allen bolt about 3mm I think (on my car at least!).
Another thing to check is the condition of the battery.
Either open them a bit with the idle screw, or just do as I suggested before and push on the throttle quadrant with your hand while trying to start it. If it sounds like it wants to fire up you get a suggestion that it needs opening more. Note if you open them permanently with the idle screw this changes the throttle pot setting and you'll have to adjust it again.
In case you haven't realized, the idle screw is just to the right of where the throttle cable attaches to the throttle bodies on the rear i.e just behind the injector rail - it's an allen bolt about 3mm I think (on my car at least!).
Another thing to check is the condition of the battery.
tracker11 said:
Spark is ok and I have fuel.
So it's probably not this, but how much fuel?Reason for asking this is that whilst quite a few Radicals (ours included) will keep running happily down to not much more than a couple of litres left in the tank, they will totally refuse to start up again with any less than about 10 litres in the tank, especially when they have stood unused for a few days.
Ours had stood pumped out for a couple of weeks and I then put in about 5 litres before trying to start it - it simply would not fire - so after much frigging around checking this, that and the other and finding absolutely nothing wrong, I put in another 5 litres and bingo, it fired straightaway. Asking around later, I discovered that several cars had exactly that same strange characteristic, which I assume is down to the pretty unsophisticated but nonetheless effective fuel breathing system that race cars such as Rads often have.
just a short checklist
-spark is ok (just double checked this)
-20 Liter of new fuel (I pumped out all the old fuel before)
-battery is ok and fully loaded
-plug leads were removed but they are in the correct Position (they were marked)
-I smell and see the fuel in the plug holes (also tested each fuel injector)
-fuel pump is working (but I on't know the fuel prssur, but I would say it's ok)
I now opend the Butterfly till you can see a gap and set the TPS to 0,3 V and tried to start the engine. And it start to fire up a second. So I'm a Little bit happy now that it is just a adjustment Problem. I will try some more adjustment to get it started. Maybe I get it running
What would you recommend.
-same TPS Setting (0,3 V for example) and just try to adjust the Butterfly?
-or playing around with both
-or wait till I get the ECU Interface to read out the correct TPS Setting (hopefully ;-) )
by the way is this start up way correct?
1. main power Switch on
2. ignition on
3. crank engine with ignition on
-spark is ok (just double checked this)
-20 Liter of new fuel (I pumped out all the old fuel before)
-battery is ok and fully loaded
-plug leads were removed but they are in the correct Position (they were marked)
-I smell and see the fuel in the plug holes (also tested each fuel injector)
-fuel pump is working (but I on't know the fuel prssur, but I would say it's ok)
I now opend the Butterfly till you can see a gap and set the TPS to 0,3 V and tried to start the engine. And it start to fire up a second. So I'm a Little bit happy now that it is just a adjustment Problem. I will try some more adjustment to get it started. Maybe I get it running
What would you recommend.
-same TPS Setting (0,3 V for example) and just try to adjust the Butterfly?
-or playing around with both
-or wait till I get the ECU Interface to read out the correct TPS Setting (hopefully ;-) )
by the way is this start up way correct?
1. main power Switch on
2. ignition on
3. crank engine with ignition on
Edited by tracker11 on Tuesday 22 July 17:30
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