Laminova oil cooler
Discussion
BertBert said:
be interesting to see how it works. I did wonder whether the coolant could be used to get the oil up to temp more quickly.
Bert
That's how they work, so, yes. Assuming the OP doesn't retain any oil thermostat which may have been in place with the oil/air set up (don't!). Bert
Looks really interesting that Laminova heat exchanger. Never seen it before. Would love to get more info on this set up in the SR3. There would be no weight saving in terms of oil line reduction. Is the Laminove lighter than the standard oil cooler?
Main benefit seems the speedy oil temperature increase. In my old SR3 I just wrapped the oil tank in a Wolverine engine heater pad. Worked very well, was simple, reliable and cheap.
Main benefit seems the speedy oil temperature increase. In my old SR3 I just wrapped the oil tank in a Wolverine engine heater pad. Worked very well, was simple, reliable and cheap.
Have it fitted and rad removed. I have been told m sport use a combined water to oil with also air on the r5 and will come back as soon as I know name of maker. I am running the laminova ( mocal) in a sprint this week. The dry sump tank is in the airflow and I will consider welding fins to increase surface area
I wonder how you tune it? For longer term running (races, not sprints), you need a water rad big enough to lose the heat from the oil and the coolant. I'd guess (all I can do) that the standard water rad might not be up to it.
Then if you want to run the coolant at 90 and the oil at 100, that's not much cooling differential to keep the oil cool enough. So mega flow needed.
Anyone actually know about this stuff?
Bert
Then if you want to run the coolant at 90 and the oil at 100, that's not much cooling differential to keep the oil cool enough. So mega flow needed.
Anyone actually know about this stuff?
Bert
Water/oil is old technology -- Toyota used it in the MR2 nearly 25 years ago, more recently Alfa and VAG have used it. I suspect that aeronautical applications date back much further.
Principle advantages are that you can put a water/oil heat exchanger anywhere you can get water and oil to it and that they're far more robust than air/oil systems.
If the radiator is marginal, just seal it properly and duct it.
Principle advantages are that you can put a water/oil heat exchanger anywhere you can get water and oil to it and that they're far more robust than air/oil systems.
If the radiator is marginal, just seal it properly and duct it.
Spotted in the Online Store and apparently 'exclusive' to the PR6 >
http://secure2.cyberware.co.uk/~rad-shop/acatalog/...
PS This is of course the gold-plated internally version which is excellent for heat conduction.
http://secure2.cyberware.co.uk/~rad-shop/acatalog/...
PS This is of course the gold-plated internally version which is excellent for heat conduction.
BertBert said:
... I did wonder whether the coolant could be used to get the oil up to temp more quickly.
Bert
This does sound like a good idea, since the water gets up to temperature more quickly than the oil. I wonder if it's been tried (on a Radical).Bert
(Whoops, just read the thread more carefully and realised that the 'Laminova' is exactly an oil/coolant heat exchanger, so I've answered my own question
)As an aside, some turbo-prop aircraft use the fuel (in the wing box) as a (cooling) heat exchanger for the gearbox oil - a large mass of cool fuel in the wing easily absorbs the heat energy of a relatively small mass of warm gearbox oil. Such a system avoids the need for a dedicated oil-air heat exchanger (ie, 'oil cooler') for which there would inevitably be an aerodynamic drag penalty.
Edited by Laurence7 on Wednesday 30th April 17:54
Ah! At last a well informed and sensible thread.
I've used them pretty extensively on hill climb cars (Big R and non Big R) and they seem to come as standard on SR8s (but in company with two massive water rads).
The plusses are that you save some mass (an obsession amongst Hillbillies) and the oil warms up pretty quickly. The minuses seem to be that one struggles a bit to reject all that heat from a single rad and the transfer of heat from oil to water becomes difficult as the temperatures of both increase - if you think about the basic thermodynamics this is obvious - and both the oil and water temps can get from 80/60 to uncomfortable levels very quickly (think less than 2 minutes of flat out running) particularly if air speed through the rad decreases. That said, I've never run a bike engined Radical past the point of thermal discomfort to see if the laws of physics can be inverted!
I've run an SR8 on a single water rad for around 10 minutes of spirited driving before starting to worry about the temps. However, on 2 water rads in series I've not seen a problem.
Interestingly, we make no provision (bar incidental air wafting past the structural sump) for oil cooling at all on the Force and I've known it to run a whole minute without going critical................
I've used them pretty extensively on hill climb cars (Big R and non Big R) and they seem to come as standard on SR8s (but in company with two massive water rads).
The plusses are that you save some mass (an obsession amongst Hillbillies) and the oil warms up pretty quickly. The minuses seem to be that one struggles a bit to reject all that heat from a single rad and the transfer of heat from oil to water becomes difficult as the temperatures of both increase - if you think about the basic thermodynamics this is obvious - and both the oil and water temps can get from 80/60 to uncomfortable levels very quickly (think less than 2 minutes of flat out running) particularly if air speed through the rad decreases. That said, I've never run a bike engined Radical past the point of thermal discomfort to see if the laws of physics can be inverted!
I've run an SR8 on a single water rad for around 10 minutes of spirited driving before starting to worry about the temps. However, on 2 water rads in series I've not seen a problem.
Interestingly, we make no provision (bar incidental air wafting past the structural sump) for oil cooling at all on the Force and I've known it to run a whole minute without going critical................
Ran the car over weekend and will reinstall oil rad as after each run we found oil temp 15 deg higher than water (as per stack dash and sensors) .it may make more sense to install both as the water will warm the oil quicker. The car was competing for first time in our ownership at kirkstown track. My son got 5th overall behind pilbeam and oms cars and 1st in class.we ran Avon a15 radials for our first time as in the past used crossply. Grip superb. Off to France end of May to st geouno hillclimb.
Ran the car over weekend and will reinstall oil rad as after each run we found oil temp 15 deg higher than water (as per stack dash and sensors) .it may make more sense to install both as the water will warm the oil quicker. The car was competing for first time in our ownership at kirkstown track. My son got 5th overall behind pilbeam and oms cars and 1st in class.we ran Avon a15 radials for our first time as in the past used crossply. Grip superb. Off to France end of May to st geouno hillclimb.
An oil temp 15 deg higher than the water temp at the end of a run is not unusual and not something I would worry about.
If you think of your basic thermodynamics, a 15 deg difference doesn't create much of a temperature gradient to promote a good heat transfer rate between oil and water. Consider this gradient compared with that arising from the 80 deg difference between water and ambient air that you're likely to see at the water rad.
What were the absolute values?
If you think of your basic thermodynamics, a 15 deg difference doesn't create much of a temperature gradient to promote a good heat transfer rate between oil and water. Consider this gradient compared with that arising from the 80 deg difference between water and ambient air that you're likely to see at the water rad.
What were the absolute values?
LCM said:
What were the absolute values?
Indeed ......... likewise, keen to hear.Reason being that the oil temp being 15degC above the water temp could prove to be absolutely spot on in my book. For sure, for circuit racing in the UK, something like a 1340 PR6 is massively over-sized in the rad department as soon as it's moving at a decent lick on track.
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