what spec to look for in a clubsport? any item a must?

[mnrvortxf20c]

hi all. first of all thanks to all on here for the continued help.
i have set the ball rolling and my current race car and trailer are for sale! i have agreed in principal to buy a bj minno from a member on here.
i am now (or will be in a week or so) ready to start the search for a clubsport but was wondering if anything is a must have item,that i will definately need to buy if the car doesnt have it?
i am trying to negotiate a deal to buy one which is probably known by many on here but i dont want to make it public which one it is just yet.i have the spec sheet and basic spec is
aditional front foot protection (3 piece front undertray)
prosport brake upgrade
carbon brake cooling ducts
dry sumped zzr 1100 engine
39mm flat slide race carb upgrade
rear diffuser/undertray
3 sets wheels/tyres

what sort of power does the zzr 1100 make on flatslide racing carbs? thanks again

[dunc_sx]

That looks like a good spec, I'd just go by condition/history and worry about the other stuff later.

Dunc.

[Martin B]

Whatever power output is quoted for the ZZR1100, don't believe it, especially the Powertec figures!

Basically, the Powertec engine is a bog stock engine with minimal port mods to the short side radius of the ports and at the area where the carb mounting rubbers fit to the head. There is also a cam timing change on the exhaust cam. There are a few other mods to enable it to be dry sumped but don't effect the power output.
(I found this out when I took my Powertec '185' spec apart after a blow up a few years ago).

They are really good fun to drive though

Edited by Martin B on Monday 24th June 21:34

[BertBert]

dunc_sx said:

That looks like a good spec, I'd just go by condition/history and worry about the other stuff later.
Dunc.

I'd agree 100%. Don't end up buying a knackered one (ask me how I know!). I'd be very particular about uprights and wishbones. Having had two uprights fail, it's not a fun thing to do. I'm not sure whether you can adequately test them for cracks and metal fatigue (others may know), but I'd want to be running on new ones or ones with a really, actually known history.
Bert

[mnrvortxf20c]

Thanks. why are the upright failing? im assuming years of hard racing?

[Count Johnny]

BertBert said:

I'm not sure whether you can adequately test them for cracks and metal fatigue (others may know)

Google 'Non Destructive Testing'. There are plenty of firms around as, for obvious reasons, it's used a lot in aviation.

[dunc_sx]

You can also DIY NDT if you fancy it, kits are available (DPI - Dye Penetrant Inspection). I couldn't comment on how accurate or easy to use they are though but they are basically just a spray can. Also DPI only picks up surface defects, I would be interested in knowing what methods are typically used by the racers since there's plenty to choose from?

Cheers,

Dunc.

Edited by dunc_sx on Tuesday 25th June 16:30

[LCM]

mnrvortxf20c said:

aditional front foot protection (3 piece front undertray)
prosport brake upgrade

What's a 3 piece FUT? Is it just the floor of the crash box and 2 quadrants to fill in the gap beteeen the crash box and the body?

What's a Prosport brake upgrade? AFAIK Prosports and Clubsports came with the same (slightly limited) Wilwood brakes. If it's an upgrade to the PR6 floating disk HiSpec style caliper (whether Big R or HiSpec branded) it's a very worthwhile upgrade.

[mnrvortxf20c]

hi lcm. it says on spec sheet extras list
aditional foot protection (with 3 peice front undertray) £375
braking system upgrade to prosport spec. vented rear discs and 4 pot calipers £85
so not sure mate, id imaging at only an extra £85 the brake upgrade is not massive but the 3 peice fut im not sure.
would you mind me mailing you with a link to the car to check it for me? as i dont have the budget to get stung on a car which needs a lot of money spending on it! cheers

[dunc_sx]

Perhaps it means 4-pot rears instead of 2-pots? Depending on vintage?

Dunc

[mnrvortxf20c]

thats what it soundl like dunc. a 2 pot to 4 pot upgrade!
since doing loads of reading i seem to keep on hearing a 20- 25 hour refresh schedule costing up to £2k? whats involved in this as you could easily clock up 20 hours in 5 trackdays! that would make things really expensive. cheers

[LCM]

mnrvortxf20c said:

hi lcm. it says on spec sheet extras list
aditional foot protection (with 3 peice front undertray) £375
braking system upgrade to prosport spec. vented rear discs and 4 pot calipers £85
so not sure mate, id imaging at only an extra £85 the brake upgrade is not massive but the 3 peice fut im not sure.
would you mind me mailing you with a link to the car to check it for me? as i dont have the budget to get stung on a car which needs a lot of money spending on it! cheers

No probs to PM me.

From what you say I'd guess that the 3 piece FUT is a crash box (compulsory for competition and I wouldn't drive one without as for most people your feet are forward of the front axle centreline). And at that price I'd agree with Duncan, it's probably just the Wilwood 4 pot calipers rather than the puny 2 pot fellas.

BUT the key thing to pick up is Bert^2's point - how much life is left in key components? In Big R's manual, the service life is given for all the key components. Replacing them all is not cheap.

[mabbott]

The more I think about it, the more I think my old Clubsport is a good proposition. It's still in the ads. It shouldn't be too difficult to trace what it's done since 2010 which is when it had pretty much new corners all round and new bodywork given the couple of excursions the owner subsequent to me had with it. Additionally if the hours on the motor can be verified that's not a bad package all round if looking a little grubby in terms of prep / cleanliness.

[splitpin]

mabbott said:

...... and new bodywork given the couple of excursions the owner subsequent to me had with it.

That explains it - I wondered why that car has still current PR6 wheel arch vents particular to front and rear rather than the universal ones that the Clubbies had!

[mnrvortxf20c]

mark. is it the white one on autotrader at £9995? if so thats the one ive been liiking at! its also on here but more pics on autotrader!

[Steve57]

LCM said:

What's a 3 piece FUT? Is it just the floor of the crash box and 2 quadrants to fill in the gap beteeen the crash box and the body?

What's a Prosport brake upgrade? AFAIK Prosports and Clubsports came with the same (slightly limited) Wilwood brakes. If it's an upgrade to the PR6 floating disk HiSpec style caliper (whether Big R or HiSpec branded) it's a very worthwhile upgrade.

Looking at the pics, No FUT on the car? Carbon brake ducts?
Why is the rear diffuser off? no real issue as long as brackets still available.
Newer wishbones fitted so they should be AOK,

[mnrvortxf20c]

wishbones dont look new to me though. theres a white and blue one for sale also which has new wishbones etc and looks a lot cleaner!

[Steve57]

They are the new style.

[Count Johnny]

dunc_sx said:

You can also DIY NDT if you fancy it, kits are available (DPI - Dye Penetrant Inspection). I couldn't comment on how accurate or easy to use they are though but they are basically just a spray can. Also DPI only picks up surface defects, I would be interested in knowing what methods are typically used by the racers since there's plenty to choose from?

Cheers,

Dunc.

Edited by dunc_sx on Tuesday 25th June 16:30

Most fatigue cracks will be at the surface but the parts have be really (really!) clean so DIY dye penetrant kits may not be the way to go.

X-rays and ultrasonic tests will show internal flaws - although these will have generally occurred during manufacture - and I was talking to a chap a while back who said he had a process which worked on painted/plated parts.

All of the historic F1 and Group C lot NDT their critical components to a schedule. Me? I test my components by breaking them.

[SportsLibre]

splitpin said:

That explains it - I wondered why that car has still current PR6 wheel arch vents particular to front and rear rather than the universal ones that the Clubbies had!

No wheel arch vents on a standard Clubsport.