sprinting or hillclimbing a radical opinions
Discussion
sorry for the long winded post on my first post in this section,but here goes.
i generally build/buy kits,do a bit of work on them then sell them on(usually at a proffit) with the aim of eventually getting a radical or oms single seater. im at the point where my next move could be a budget radical,which would be used for hills and sprints mainly,but the occasional track day due to the closed wheel design!
the early clubsport with zzr1100 is looking like the only option i have with a sub £10k budget,but wanted to know any potential pitfalls of these cars? availability of parts, aero mods,upgrades,etc and also some technical specs with power,weight, chain driven diff etc
any help would be greatly appreciated before i spend my hard earned cash! cheers
i generally build/buy kits,do a bit of work on them then sell them on(usually at a proffit) with the aim of eventually getting a radical or oms single seater. im at the point where my next move could be a budget radical,which would be used for hills and sprints mainly,but the occasional track day due to the closed wheel design!
the early clubsport with zzr1100 is looking like the only option i have with a sub £10k budget,but wanted to know any potential pitfalls of these cars? availability of parts, aero mods,upgrades,etc and also some technical specs with power,weight, chain driven diff etc
any help would be greatly appreciated before i spend my hard earned cash! cheers
Firstly, the Clubsport is a great car for Hill and Sprint, great fun and can set good times, I have used one to some success for many years now. (as long as LCM was not around)It always surprises me why so few of them come out to play in the Speed events. Please do.
Now the critical bits.
With the new generation of purpose built Sports Libres such as the Force LM it is ultimately too heavy and in 1100 guise underpowered. Luckily these new (and extremely expensive) machines are thin on the ground so I rarely see them.
Most of the events split the sports Libre at 1700 or 2000cc so again the small 1100 can be up against some quite powerful cars, but with its superior handling and aero is still good match.
I see that most of the cars that come up for sale already have an undertray and some modified with the Prosport rear wing. Personally I haven't bothered with the rear wing as it adds significant weight and drag and have never felt the need for it, possibly just my smooth (slow?) driving style but rear end grip is not the limiting factor in fact quite the opposite!
After a couple of years I fitted a ZX14 (the details of the change can be found on here if you search the threads).
My advice for your budget is to look for a car that alread has the bigger busa engine, either a modified Clubsport or better still a Prosport which is basically the same car but fitted as standard with the busa, more areo, centre lock wheels etc.
Having said that an 1100 is likely to be a good bit cheaper and every bit as much fun, you could alway convert it to a busa later?
Now the critical bits.
With the new generation of purpose built Sports Libres such as the Force LM it is ultimately too heavy and in 1100 guise underpowered. Luckily these new (and extremely expensive) machines are thin on the ground so I rarely see them.
Most of the events split the sports Libre at 1700 or 2000cc so again the small 1100 can be up against some quite powerful cars, but with its superior handling and aero is still good match.
I see that most of the cars that come up for sale already have an undertray and some modified with the Prosport rear wing. Personally I haven't bothered with the rear wing as it adds significant weight and drag and have never felt the need for it, possibly just my smooth (slow?) driving style but rear end grip is not the limiting factor in fact quite the opposite!
After a couple of years I fitted a ZX14 (the details of the change can be found on here if you search the threads).
My advice for your budget is to look for a car that alread has the bigger busa engine, either a modified Clubsport or better still a Prosport which is basically the same car but fitted as standard with the busa, more areo, centre lock wheels etc.
Having said that an 1100 is likely to be a good bit cheaper and every bit as much fun, you could alway convert it to a busa later?
Edited by SportsLibre on Sunday 28th April 21:26
thankyou very much for your help. any ideas on weight with the zzr1100? also im not an experienced racing driver or anything but thought the added benefit of a more reliable car (and the closed wheel design) so can be used on circuit far out way the fact i could buy a lighter oms or similar for the same money!
SportsLibre said:
With the new generation of purpose built Sports Libres such as the Force LM it is ultimately too heavy and in 1100 guise underpowered. Luckily these new (and extremely expensive) machines are thin on the ground so I rarely see them.
add Bloody Ugly to the list...............As SportsLibre says, it's a good little car for sprints and hillclimbs. We've had a few good tussles in the last few years and whilst the new generation of cars (Force LM, etc.) are a whole different league, I've yet to come up against one. Both SportsLibre and I tend to be near the front of the class.
The Clubsport is quite heavy, but it benefits from good aero compared to most cars you'll find in that class, which makes up for it. As stated, an 1100cc engine is a bit lacking in power, so don't underestimate the importance of finding one with the right engine if you can stretch to it. Swapping in a 'Busa won't be cheap by the time you've bought the engine, dry sump, exhaust, ECU and wotnot even if you don't count your time.
Of course, if you wanted to take another route into Sports Libre, buy an OMS and some cycle wings. You'll be lighter and have better scope for aero work. Just don't turn up to any events I enter...
The Clubsport is quite heavy, but it benefits from good aero compared to most cars you'll find in that class, which makes up for it. As stated, an 1100cc engine is a bit lacking in power, so don't underestimate the importance of finding one with the right engine if you can stretch to it. Swapping in a 'Busa won't be cheap by the time you've bought the engine, dry sump, exhaust, ECU and wotnot even if you don't count your time.
Of course, if you wanted to take another route into Sports Libre, buy an OMS and some cycle wings. You'll be lighter and have better scope for aero work. Just don't turn up to any events I enter...
andylaurence said:
The Clubsport is quite heavy, but it benefits from good aero compared to most cars you'll find in that class, which makes up for it. ........
Of course, if you wanted to take another route into Sports Libre, buy an OMS and some cycle wings. You'll be lighter and have better scope for aero work. Just don't turn up to any events I enter...
Of course, if you wanted to take another route into Sports Libre, buy an OMS and some cycle wings. You'll be lighter and have better scope for aero work. Just don't turn up to any events I enter...
and as the OP asked, I should say a notional wet but driverless weight of 440-450kg wouldn't be far off for a Clubbie in it's original guise.And
you could do that to/with an OMS if you're happy to use the rules that let you cheat 
This is afterall Motorsport.splitpin said:
And there was me just about to start posting on the BSDF .........
In fact, thinking about it, it would be cheating if you weren't cheating, wouldn't it? 
As for the BikeSports Drivers' Forum, I've just posted a brief report for Saturday's races. Post away. I'm getting a bit lonely.
There are a few cars being built that will essentially be clothed single seaters. It's what'll signal the end to small sports racers at the top of the Sports Libre tree. Let's not forget that a "two" seater Force qualified for the Top 12 yesterday. Of course, it'll be a while until they filter down to regional/club level events.
Where's the Bikesports forum? I've Googled it, but no results. All I can find is a Facebook page.
Where's the Bikesports forum? I've Googled it, but no results. All I can find is a Facebook page.
Count Johnny said:
As for the BikeSports Drivers' Forum, I've just posted a brief report for Saturday's races.
It's certainly brief, not sure it qualifies as report though!http://bikesports.freeforums.org/brands-apr-2013-t...
Bert
mnrvortxf20c said:
sorry for the long winded post on my first post in this section,but here goes.
i generally build/buy kits,do a bit of work on them then sell them on(usually at a proffit) with the aim of eventually getting a radical or oms single seater. im at the point where my next move could be a budget radical,which would be used for hills and sprints mainly,but the occasional track day due to the closed wheel design!
the early clubsport with zzr1100 is looking like the only option i have with a sub £10k budget,but wanted to know any potential pitfalls of these cars? availability of parts, aero mods,upgrades,etc and also some technical specs with power,weight, chain driven diff etc
any help would be greatly appreciated before i spend my hard earned cash! cheers
Have you looked here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...i generally build/buy kits,do a bit of work on them then sell them on(usually at a proffit) with the aim of eventually getting a radical or oms single seater. im at the point where my next move could be a budget radical,which would be used for hills and sprints mainly,but the occasional track day due to the closed wheel design!
the early clubsport with zzr1100 is looking like the only option i have with a sub £10k budget,but wanted to know any potential pitfalls of these cars? availability of parts, aero mods,upgrades,etc and also some technical specs with power,weight, chain driven diff etc
any help would be greatly appreciated before i spend my hard earned cash! cheers
BTW, what was the Midland Speed Championship has Sports Libre class breaks at 1400 and 2000cc. So an 1100 Clubsport would not necessarily look ridiculous (though a 1300-1400 would be better).
With a sub £10k budget you are really limited to a Clubsport (1100 probably) with Wilwood brakes and standard (non) aero! The problem with engine transplants is that when you do one you open the floodgates to spending more money. If you put in a decent 1300/1340 'Busa or 1400 Kwakker and drive it hard you probably will find the limits of the brakes (hopefully without finding the limits of the track, but possibly not). This then means a brake upgrade to the Big R/Hi-Spec floating rotor/butch caliper fellas which with some decent hoses will cost you around £2.5k from Peterborough. Then you're going to have to tackle the aero. In standard form the Clubsport is a mess underneath with only couple of ally quadrants to close off the front of the chassis and the rear being open to the elements and thus a feast of turbulence. So you then need an LCM FUT, LCM extractor sidepods and a rear diffuser to start to exploit the aero possibilities of the flow under the floor (for, with so little power this is your most efficient and effective route).
That said, a Clubsport is a rugged and robust little thing and a hoot to drive. You can be neat, smooth and quick or leary, sideways and feel quick! The choice is yours. My son started in Casper the Clubsport (now aero converted and living happily with Radu in Bucharest) and had a whale of a time. It gave him the chance to find his feet in the world of slicks and aero without hurting himself and 18 months later he's driving my 1600 Force with verve and confidence (and yesterday beat his old Dad and got FTD!).
Count Johnny said:
Sorry Graham.
Forgot to mention light-hearted.
Graham tells me he has read it too and enjoyed it very much!Forgot to mention light-hearted.
Back vaguely to the OP's questions...is a clubsport competitive in its class in Bikesports? It's certainly a hoot to drive and it strikes me that it's more at home in circuit racing than on the hills.
BErt
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