After market ECU?
Discussion
I have used the stock Suzuki Hayabusa ecu (both Gen I and Gen II) with great success. With some inexpensive wiring harness modifications and some excellent free software, you can tune, diagnose and generally do just about whatever you need. And the ECU, wiring harness, throttle bodies, etc, can all be easily had from eBay for minimal money (even less so if purchased as part of a car kit). You can also get parts (sensors, injectors, etc) from your local Suzuki dealer.
-Matt
-Matt
BioBa said:
I was also told by someone else that the standard Suzuki ECU is very good and cheap.
It's actually VERY capable. Some examples:- no-lift-shift can be controlled by the ECU with simply the addition of a load cell in the shift linkage somewhere, with both ignition and fuel cut
- for the drag race crowd, there is a two stage rev limiter, which for the road race crowd could work quite nicely as a pit lane speed limiter
- if you're so inclined to go down the forced induction path, simply swap in a 2 (or 3) BAR Intake Air Pressure sensor, tune as required, and the stock ECU will properly fuel/time the engine, as well as control a waste gate solenoid
- if you retain the stock 02 sensor, there are "autotune" type features available as well.
Tons of information here:
http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/f469024/suzuki-g...
It's not quite as versatile and feature rich as a full custom (i.e. Pectel/Motec/etc) but it's not far off, and can be loads cheaper.
-Matt
BioBa said:
Thanks for the info. I was also told by someone else that the standard Suzuki ECU is very good and cheap.
I used the Suzuki ECU with great success on a 1585 and then a 1440 'Busa.
Don't forget that you'll likely need a Nikko-G box to fool the ECU into thinking that you aren't in 5th or 6th gear and thus subject to the 'bike manufacturers' voluntary top speed limits and a Power Commander to map the fuel for optimum performance while the ECU handles the spark.
But you don't tell us what ECU you've got at the moment and why it's a problem that it's locked...............
Plus, Bert^2 speaks with straight tongue. The boys at RPE are very helpful and it's always worth giving Dan a call to see if he can help. You should get him on service AT radicalperformanceengines.com
BertBert said:
Have you asked the UK powertec guys if they can help in any way?
When I asked the same question some time ago (2-3 years?) I was told the only option I had was to purchase a new MBE ECU (I had an older, pre-Life ECU setup) and Radical would be able to share a basic map with me. I would then be responsible for final tuning, etc. I completely understand why they do this (single make spec racing series around the world, etc). Needless to say, this option was quite cost prohibitive and didn't really put me any further ahead than simply using the Suzuki wiring harness. Like BioBa I'm not close to any Radical/RPE/PowerTec facility so support is difficult when needed. Bike engined cars(non-Radical), both road and oval racing, using the factory ECU, are quite common. If I recall correctly, BioBa is in Oz, and I'd guess his Stohr/West racing brethren are mostly using factory Suzuki ECUs.
-Matt
LCM said:
Don't forget that you'll likely need a Nikko-G box to fool the ECU into thinking that you aren't in 5th or 6th gear and thus subject to the 'bike manufacturers' voluntary top speed limits and a Power Commander to map the fuel for optimum performance while the ECU handles the spark.
No need for Power Commander or any of the "TRE" or top speed limiter tricker boxes now that the ECU has been "hacked." All very nice and clean with the standard factory wiring loom/ECU (with the appropriate removals of gauge, light, kickstand switch, etc, wiring).-Matt
I hand made a custom loom to run a Busa with the standard ECU in a previous project, extremely lightweight and utilised resistors soldered at various points to influence the ECU input signals allowing the engine to start and be unrestricted. I still have that wiring diagram somewhere ....!
I would concurr with Matt that there is quite a lot of scope with the OEM ECUs, you only need to view the Busa forums across the water to see what some are up to.
I would concurr with Matt that there is quite a lot of scope with the OEM ECUs, you only need to view the Busa forums across the water to see what some are up to.
LCM said:
But you don't tell us what ECU you've got at the moment and why it's a problem that it's locked...............
Can you please provide some more information on any changes that are required to use the Suzuki ECU. What sort of cables do I need? Will any of the Radical sensors plug straight in? Any links to e-bay items required would be very helpful.
BioBa said:
I had to re-cut the 'dogs' on the gear box and the machine shop commented that he felt the exhaust ports were a little to dark. He offered to put the engine on the dyno to test for its parameters but because I have the Radical ECU with no cable and software we could not do it. After contacting Radical I was told that I can not change any engine parameters on the Radical ECU due to warranty issues (ECU is locked). That's why I am looking at an alternative ECU.
Can you please provide some more information on any changes that are required to use the Suzuki ECU. What sort of cables do I need? Will any of the Radical sensors plug straight in? Any links to e-bay items required would be very helpful.
Do you have any warranty that will be affected anyway? If you do, you'll only keep it by keeping to the standard locked ECU. I presume their real reason is that they don't want their map open to all and sundry.Can you please provide some more information on any changes that are required to use the Suzuki ECU. What sort of cables do I need? Will any of the Radical sensors plug straight in? Any links to e-bay items required would be very helpful.
Bert
BioBa said:
LCM said:
But you don't tell us what ECU you've got at the moment and why it's a problem that it's locked...............
Can you please provide some more information on any changes that are required to use the Suzuki ECU. What sort of cables do I need? Will any of the Radical sensors plug straight in? Any links to e-bay items required would be very helpful.
If you decide to change the mapping I would recommended an unlocked ECU from RPE/Radical, it would come with a base map that you can 'tweak' as you see fit. As you know this would remove your warranty, but so would changing your management. Do you actually still have any warranty?
This would be cheaper than changing your complete management system and also can help with things like resale value of the car.
Give Dan at RPE a call to discuss further if you require, I hear he can be a helpful guy and I know you have his contact details ;-)
BioBa said:
How does the flat shifter communicate with the Radical ECU?
It doesn't:-http://www.flatshifter.com/technical/
Dunc.
Anyway Babak, enough of this gentle ribbing.
Let's get down to logic.
You had a car that ran well (if it hadn't have done so you'd have been on here telling us) using a locked RPE ECU (you don't tell us which variety but I'm guessing it's an MBE) with an RPE developed map for standard spec engines that works fine for probably hundreds of other moderateley satisfied customers.
A bloke at the local machine shop says that your ports are a bit black (we don't know how black) and suddenly you want to re-wire your car (as my old Jewish Granny would have said)! Oy vey ist mir - the boy has more money than sense. Send some my vay.
If it ran fine before the bloke said it was all black, how does it run now?
Not so good eh?
Well one thing I'll take a wager with you on is that the RPE map was pretty good when it was loaded into the ECU and, given that you haven't got a plug or a lead, it's still pretty good for a standard engine in decent nick.
So what else has changed?
Is the engine just knackered and needing a re-build (like me) or have you got an over-enthusiastic fuel pressure regulator or the like (for there aren't too many things that will cause a fuel injected engine to run too rich).
So why not check before you spend real money, stick it on a rolling road and analyse the exhaust gases (I'm sure Dan Dan being a helpful chap could give you some target readings) and then, if the exhaust is carrying too much un-burnt fuel, look at everything else before you even think of changing the ECU!
îæìÎèåáÏ!
Let's get down to logic.
You had a car that ran well (if it hadn't have done so you'd have been on here telling us) using a locked RPE ECU (you don't tell us which variety but I'm guessing it's an MBE) with an RPE developed map for standard spec engines that works fine for probably hundreds of other moderateley satisfied customers.
A bloke at the local machine shop says that your ports are a bit black (we don't know how black) and suddenly you want to re-wire your car (as my old Jewish Granny would have said)! Oy vey ist mir - the boy has more money than sense. Send some my vay.
If it ran fine before the bloke said it was all black, how does it run now?
Not so good eh?
Well one thing I'll take a wager with you on is that the RPE map was pretty good when it was loaded into the ECU and, given that you haven't got a plug or a lead, it's still pretty good for a standard engine in decent nick.
So what else has changed?
Is the engine just knackered and needing a re-build (like me) or have you got an over-enthusiastic fuel pressure regulator or the like (for there aren't too many things that will cause a fuel injected engine to run too rich).
So why not check before you spend real money, stick it on a rolling road and analyse the exhaust gases (I'm sure Dan Dan being a helpful chap could give you some target readings) and then, if the exhaust is carrying too much un-burnt fuel, look at everything else before you even think of changing the ECU!
îæìÎèåáÏ!
Edited by LCM on Friday 9th November 07:00
Edited by LCM on Friday 9th November 07:02
Edited by LCM on Friday 9th November 07:03
Edited by LCM on Friday 9th November 07:22
LCM said:
Anyway Babak, enough of this gentle ribbing.
Let's get down to logic.
You had a car that ran well (if it hadn't have done so you'd have been on here telling us) using a locked RPE ECU (you don't tell us which variety but I'm guessing it's an MBE) with an RPE developed map for standard spec engines that works fine for probably hundreds of other moderateley satisfied customers.
A bloke at the local machine shop says that your ports are a bit black (we don't know how black) and suddenly you want to re-wire your car (as my old Jewish Granny would have said)! Oy vey ist mir - the boy has more money than sense. Send some my vay.
If it ran fine before the bloke said it was all black, how does it run now?
Not so good eh?
Well one thing I'll take a wager with you on is that the RPE map was pretty good when it was loaded into the ECU and, given that you haven't got a plug or a lead, it's still pretty good for a standard engine in decent nick.
So what else has changed?
Is the engine just knackered and needing a re-build (like me) or have you got an over-enthusiastic fuel pressure regulator or the like (for there aren't too many things that will cause a fuel injected engine to run too rich).
So why not check before you spend real money, stick it on a rolling road and analyse the exhaust gases (I'm sure Dan Dan being a helpful chap could give you some target readings) and then, if the exhaust is carrying too much un-burnt fuel, look at everything else before you even think of changing the E
I agree with you that there is no point in messing with something that works. It's when things do not work or when you want to see if things are working as good as they should do I need to be able to investigate. You have to understand that there is no Radical mechanical support what so ever where I live. I wish I could just drop the car in the Radical shop for a check up but that is not an option (closest Radical work shop is 900 km from my place). Therefore I am considering switching to components like the Suzuki ECU which allow myself or local bike shops to help out when required. As helpful as Radical is when you are at the track sometimes you need to be able to respond to issues right away. Let's get down to logic.
You had a car that ran well (if it hadn't have done so you'd have been on here telling us) using a locked RPE ECU (you don't tell us which variety but I'm guessing it's an MBE) with an RPE developed map for standard spec engines that works fine for probably hundreds of other moderateley satisfied customers.
A bloke at the local machine shop says that your ports are a bit black (we don't know how black) and suddenly you want to re-wire your car (as my old Jewish Granny would have said)! Oy vey ist mir - the boy has more money than sense. Send some my vay.
If it ran fine before the bloke said it was all black, how does it run now?
Not so good eh?
Well one thing I'll take a wager with you on is that the RPE map was pretty good when it was loaded into the ECU and, given that you haven't got a plug or a lead, it's still pretty good for a standard engine in decent nick.
So what else has changed?
Is the engine just knackered and needing a re-build (like me) or have you got an over-enthusiastic fuel pressure regulator or the like (for there aren't too many things that will cause a fuel injected engine to run too rich).
So why not check before you spend real money, stick it on a rolling road and analyse the exhaust gases (I'm sure Dan Dan being a helpful chap could give you some target readings) and then, if the exhaust is carrying too much un-burnt fuel, look at everything else before you even think of changing the E
Also understand that I am in the process of gathering information and feedback from other drivers to see what my best options are. Don't worry I'm not planing to jump into a re-wire because of slightly darker exhaust ports. Just trying to plan ahead and learn from others.
Nearly all other Hayabusa driven cars in QLD use the Suzuki ECU and I could draw from their know how and mechanical support when switching ECUs.
What options are there to use the Radical ECU to view engine parameters. What cable/software do I need?
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