SR3 Upright "life" Part 2
Discussion
Unbelievable - last week I read arnoldhars thread and yesterday the same thing happened to me!
Before a 180 km/h sweeping right hand turn I suddenly felt my brakes getting spongy. I immediately slowed down and headed to the pit exit. Half way down the pit lane the car started to shutter and came to an abrupt stop. After close inspection it was clear that the left rear hub had sheared off and the wheel was being held in place by the drive shaft and the brake callipers! The sponginess of the brakes must have been caused by the wheel already having excessive play rubbing against the brake pads causing the brakes to overheat. Scary stuff and I think I am very lucky that the failure did not happen at full speed inside the turn. I had very limited information on the ageing of my car parts as to my amazement the previous owner (Radical Australia) was not able to provide me with a detailed parts replacement record. Only front uprights and drive shaft were dated all other parts had no date. Since my ownership I have dated all new parts but obviously there are still parts that have no date. P.S.: Anybody has a spare/not wanted new left rear upright for sale?
Before a 180 km/h sweeping right hand turn I suddenly felt my brakes getting spongy. I immediately slowed down and headed to the pit exit. Half way down the pit lane the car started to shutter and came to an abrupt stop. After close inspection it was clear that the left rear hub had sheared off and the wheel was being held in place by the drive shaft and the brake callipers! The sponginess of the brakes must have been caused by the wheel already having excessive play rubbing against the brake pads causing the brakes to overheat. Scary stuff and I think I am very lucky that the failure did not happen at full speed inside the turn. I had very limited information on the ageing of my car parts as to my amazement the previous owner (Radical Australia) was not able to provide me with a detailed parts replacement record. Only front uprights and drive shaft were dated all other parts had no date. Since my ownership I have dated all new parts but obviously there are still parts that have no date. P.S.: Anybody has a spare/not wanted new left rear upright for sale?
Guys,
even if the uprights are dated, you do not know how many hours they have done,you do not know if they have been is a collision, you do not now if the car has been kerb hopping. Buying a second hand one to replace a broken one leaves you in the same place
The only way to avoid this is to buy new ones. Adding 3k to the budget of the car when you buy is to cover the cost is a far safer way
Would you buy a second hand parachute?
Simon
even if the uprights are dated, you do not know how many hours they have done,you do not know if they have been is a collision, you do not now if the car has been kerb hopping. Buying a second hand one to replace a broken one leaves you in the same place
The only way to avoid this is to buy new ones. Adding 3k to the budget of the car when you buy is to cover the cost is a far safer way
Would you buy a second hand parachute?
Simon
Reading these threads with interest. Some fair comments regarding buying new parts and 'lifing'. This is exactly what we did when we ran customer cars… mainly because our customers had enough of a budget.
Now we are running our own Radical, we do not have the budget to do as Radical recommend. Like a lot of other Radical owners i'm sure. Question is a hard one, as our car is only used for trackdays we stretch the hours.
But as a point of interest I have done a costing exercise and if you replace all parts at the hours expressed by Radical. Cost of parts alone is over £11,000 + vat per year, assuming 30 hours (10 trackdays) per year and the usual £4500 for engine and box with nothing wrong. (and excluding tyres)
Now we are running our own Radical, we do not have the budget to do as Radical recommend. Like a lot of other Radical owners i'm sure. Question is a hard one, as our car is only used for trackdays we stretch the hours.
But as a point of interest I have done a costing exercise and if you replace all parts at the hours expressed by Radical. Cost of parts alone is over £11,000 + vat per year, assuming 30 hours (10 trackdays) per year and the usual £4500 for engine and box with nothing wrong. (and excluding tyres)
Most driver use different "lifing" criteria of parts depending on whether they are full-on racing or using the car for more relaxed track days. In regards to engine life 80 to 100 of track day hours are not uncommon when compared to the Radical recommended 50 race hours.
I think the same can be applied to other parts. At the end it is a personal decision how far you want to go beyond the recommended exchange intervals. As I only use my car for track days I have been increasing the recommended exchange hours by 50% and some less important parts (regarding safety) to 100%. I have been applying this to all parts I have installed or to the pars that had been dated. Unfortunately there are parts on my car where I have no age information - in particular the upright in question! After my little incident I will replace all important non-dated parts to make sure I am aware of the age of all components on my car.
I think the same can be applied to other parts. At the end it is a personal decision how far you want to go beyond the recommended exchange intervals. As I only use my car for track days I have been increasing the recommended exchange hours by 50% and some less important parts (regarding safety) to 100%. I have been applying this to all parts I have installed or to the pars that had been dated. Unfortunately there are parts on my car where I have no age information - in particular the upright in question! After my little incident I will replace all important non-dated parts to make sure I am aware of the age of all components on my car.
Not a bad thought. I don't use the tie downs that go into the hubs. I feel like the torque the hub up and put unnecessary force on the hub/upright when transporting.
I tie my car down with a strap over the rears tires only. The front of my car doesn't get tied down at all.
I would be interested to know how the 2 cars with broken hubs are tied down.
I tie my car down with a strap over the rears tires only. The front of my car doesn't get tied down at all.
I would be interested to know how the 2 cars with broken hubs are tied down.
Here are the tie downs I use:
http://www.kinedyne.com/products/502/2-webbing.htm...
bottom of the page Part # 15668.
They work really well.
http://www.kinedyne.com/products/502/2-webbing.htm...
bottom of the page Part # 15668.
They work really well.
Ron V said:
I tie my car down with a strap over the rears tires only. The front of my car doesn't get tied down at all.
Do you find the front of the car bounces up and down Ron or never really noticed? I've always thought you should tie down either one front and diagonally opposite wheel or I tie down two fronts and one rear just to be sure Dunc.
dunc_sx said:
Do you find the front of the car bounces up and down Ron or never really noticed? I've always thought you should tie down either one front and diagonally opposite wheel or I tie down two fronts and one rear just to be sure
Dunc.
Wheel rack and table means our Rad has to go on nose first on our BJ RS3; we secure via C/L transport hoops to both rear wheels; lashed tight enough but not daftly tight; front wheels not lashed at all, nothing; doesn't move an inch. I get the car in position (I know I'm fussy but I like it to be spot on straight and right in the middle) then I put in chocks evenly behind both rear wheels and then pull the car gently and evenly backwards onto them using the rearmost 'stop the car going forward' straps, then do the forward direction 'stop the car going backwards' straps, again gently and evenly. Dunc.
I think its good policy not to rely on lashing the front wheels; it is quite capable of knocking the geo out or worse, especially as I've seen some people way way overtensioning the straps. I think Steve is right in wondering whether this could help initiate hub failures; in my view it could but we'll never know for sure I guess.
In fact, earlier this year, one of the Big R's Chaps told me that they now use just a single rear wheel lash when using their BJ, but I was not comfortable with that; I tried it once just to see and the front did shift a fraction sideways ....... with just one wheel lashed, the whole car could pivot around one lashing point ........ when I open that trailer, I want to see the car sitting in exactly the same position it was when I closed the lid, no ifs, no buts.
The chap I bought the car from bent all four uprights by lashing their car to a trailer when they were new to Radicals and they are very experienced racers. He did describe how but sadly I can't remember.
Interesting too that it seems to make sense to attach the car using the rears and both failures were rear uprights. Do Radical have a view on this?
Interesting too that it seems to make sense to attach the car using the rears and both failures were rear uprights. Do Radical have a view on this?
Edited by Coldaswell on Sunday 9th September 21:59
Hi Dunc,
The front of the car doesn't move at all. And I have hit some big bumps probably going a bit too fast trying to make it to the track on time.
I am with Trev on the no tie downs on the front, ever! I go with the same technique of blocking the rear tires evenly and then tightening the straps one click at a time on either side. Evenly and un-tensioned. Not too tight as well.......we are not hauling 4000 pound cars here.
I can totally see radical using only one wheel tie down, that would solve the "pulling the rear wheels back at a different rate" problem. I'm sure it would be pretty easy to "twist" the suspension bolts holding the arms on as well if done incorrectly. I am however not confortable with that either. I use 2 and just don't reef on them.
Ron
Now lets talk about what I found on the drain plug magnet today when doing an oil change......
The front of the car doesn't move at all. And I have hit some big bumps probably going a bit too fast trying to make it to the track on time.
I am with Trev on the no tie downs on the front, ever! I go with the same technique of blocking the rear tires evenly and then tightening the straps one click at a time on either side. Evenly and un-tensioned. Not too tight as well.......we are not hauling 4000 pound cars here.
I can totally see radical using only one wheel tie down, that would solve the "pulling the rear wheels back at a different rate" problem. I'm sure it would be pretty easy to "twist" the suspension bolts holding the arms on as well if done incorrectly. I am however not confortable with that either. I use 2 and just don't reef on them.
Ron
Now lets talk about what I found on the drain plug magnet today when doing an oil change......
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