Do I Have a Cooling Issue?
Discussion
Chaps,
I’m hoping I can draw upon your collective wisdom.
When racing the car (2006 SR3 1500) at Pembrey at the weekend, it started running a little hotter than I had noticed before. In particular, the temperature would increase notably under power. It didn’t get very hot and it didn’t exceed 102 degrees (as indicated on the Farringdon steering wheel dash) and dropped back to low to mid 90s when off power. Is this normal? It doesn’t normally exceed about 95 degrees, I don't think. I’d be grateful for your thoughts. It wasn’t a hot day but was warm when the sun came out and there is a very long left hand corner at Pembrey which might well block the radiator intake. The oil temp stayed just above 100 degrees the whole time.
Also, the cooling fan didn’t seem to want to do a very good job of cooling the car down sat in parc ferme after the race. I’ll check the fan is still working. I’ll also check that the electric water pump is running. Anyone had experience of an electric water pump failure?
Cheers.
Paul
I’m hoping I can draw upon your collective wisdom.
When racing the car (2006 SR3 1500) at Pembrey at the weekend, it started running a little hotter than I had noticed before. In particular, the temperature would increase notably under power. It didn’t get very hot and it didn’t exceed 102 degrees (as indicated on the Farringdon steering wheel dash) and dropped back to low to mid 90s when off power. Is this normal? It doesn’t normally exceed about 95 degrees, I don't think. I’d be grateful for your thoughts. It wasn’t a hot day but was warm when the sun came out and there is a very long left hand corner at Pembrey which might well block the radiator intake. The oil temp stayed just above 100 degrees the whole time.
Also, the cooling fan didn’t seem to want to do a very good job of cooling the car down sat in parc ferme after the race. I’ll check the fan is still working. I’ll also check that the electric water pump is running. Anyone had experience of an electric water pump failure?
Cheers.
Paul
Given what you describe (what occured when, conditions, temps generally), doesn't sound as though everything is quite right to me .......... we were racing at Anglesey on Sunday and it was goodly warm with hardly a breeze; no gaffa on the water rad and the PR6 was running at circa 75degC during the race, which is pretty well perfect for the most efficient combustion. Wouldn't have been surprised to see your water temp rising up to say 95degC in assembly/pre green flag, but I'd have expected to see that fall back to more like 75-85degC on the move at maximum attack.
I'm not sure you can easily compare a 2012 PR6 cooling with a 2006 SR3. If the SR3 normally runs 100 degrees oil and 95 degrees water in the race, then it's deviations from that that would be the immediate concern. My SR3 will run a much higher water temp if the oil is running at 100 rather than running at 85**.
However if the behaviour of Paul's SR3 has changed to be load dependent, then it looks like something is going on. If the cooling capacity is marginal, then the temp will vary due to load. It may be the water pump has become less functional or some other change. Matt Bell's water pump wasn't working at some point at Oulton and it definitely boiled (water temp 130+) and I suspect it happened quite quickly. So I'd be surprised if you had complete water pump failure therefore. Also it must be 12v for test purposes surely?
You can get overheating if the HG is beginning to go, but I'd expect to see other watery problems if that were happening.
Bert
However if the behaviour of Paul's SR3 has changed to be load dependent, then it looks like something is going on. If the cooling capacity is marginal, then the temp will vary due to load. It may be the water pump has become less functional or some other change. Matt Bell's water pump wasn't working at some point at Oulton and it definitely boiled (water temp 130+) and I suspect it happened quite quickly. So I'd be surprised if you had complete water pump failure therefore. Also it must be 12v for test purposes surely?
You can get overheating if the HG is beginning to go, but I'd expect to see other watery problems if that were happening.
Bert
- I may have to revise Bert's rules of gaffa to take account of the interdependencies between oil and water cooling requirements!
BertBert said:
I'm not sure you can easily compare a 2012 PR6 cooling with a 2006 SR3.
Just to be clear, I wasn't, but it is a fact of near biblical proportions that a water temp of 72-75degC is the most efficient for combustion ......... so closer to that one can get, so much the better. From choice, I would never want to see a running water temp of more than 95degC except in very exceptional circumstances.Paul, It's not right, either you have an engine problem, a cooling problem or a sensor problem. A standard SR3 should not run at 100deg
check that the rad is not blocked with rubber and crap. Check the pump is working, a pair of wires straight from the batt will prove it. If that doesn't fix it, call RPE
Simon
check that the rad is not blocked with rubber and crap. Check the pump is working, a pair of wires straight from the batt will prove it. If that doesn't fix it, call RPE
Simon
I had a simmilar problem with my 2005 SR3. It was due to the fan not kicking in at the right temp which resulted in high water temps in the pits and under load on the track. Water pump problems normally are not gradual and translate into a dramatic increase in temp no matter what the load.
My problem turned out to be loose wiring to the sensor.
My problem turned out to be loose wiring to the sensor.
I have my water pump hooked up with a connector. If I want to turn the main power on to download data I can without the water pump running continuously by just unpluging it.
I can also cycle the water in the system in the pits with an auxiliary 12V Battery although excessive heat is not my cars problem.
Throw a inline plug in the system just before the pump and it will be very easy to check to see if its working properly.
I can also cycle the water in the system in the pits with an auxiliary 12V Battery although excessive heat is not my cars problem.
Throw a inline plug in the system just before the pump and it will be very easy to check to see if its working properly.
Edited by Ron V on Wednesday 8th August 21:52
Have seen older Sr3s have issues with rear light looms fouling on bodywork frame at rear which in turn causes 30 amp fuse on rear bulkhead to go and this part of water pump circuit, 1 CASE on a 3 MANY YEARS ago and a second to a 3 on a track day when they asked the right people at the right time who had learned their lesson previously!.COULD ALSO be just a badly intermittent contacting fuse,probably not your problem but worth a place on the check list. P.S RPE can config fan operation depending on management system..
Spot on.
Dodgy wiring/connection to sensor or pump (possibly itself in terms of the former) or relief cap sounds favourite to me.
Obviously this assumes the obvious have been checked, such as water level, quality of water and the rad face being free of small lost children etc have all been checked.
Dodgy wiring/connection to sensor or pump (possibly itself in terms of the former) or relief cap sounds favourite to me.
Obviously this assumes the obvious have been checked, such as water level, quality of water and the rad face being free of small lost children etc have all been checked.
Yep, the cap was recently replaced so is good. Agreed the pump is favorite. Am I correct in thinking it always runs when the engine is running (as opposed to the ignition is on) or does it have a sensor? If so which one? The wiring diagram suggests it is controlled by the ECU along with the fan. Clearly the fan is on a sensor (via the ECU) but I was boldly assuming that the pump was on as soon as the engine is running (like the fuel pump, less its quick squirt before start up) and doesn't have a seperate sensor.
Thanks!!!!!!
Thanks!!!!!!
Which is why we (and are told to) kill the engine via the ignition toggle switch and leave the big red rotational master switch in the on position for say ten minutes more?
And Simon is absolutely right; if you've ever had a fanbelt go on a road car and 'lose' the water pump, watch the startling rate at which the water temp climbs to 'there she blows!' levels, now imagine that in a Hayabusa in a racing Radical
Favourite for me is a wiring breakdown and/or the sensor itself and do be especially watchful of 'connection spades', male and female; they can look just fine from superficial inspection, but actually can be hanging on by the merest thread; the slightest touch and they give up the ghost and fall off!
The first thing I would do is to use a thermometer (old-fashioned sort or a new fangled laser type) to find out what the water temps actually are real-time and whether those correspond (or do not correspond) with what the gauges are apparently telling me.
And Simon is absolutely right; if you've ever had a fanbelt go on a road car and 'lose' the water pump, watch the startling rate at which the water temp climbs to 'there she blows!' levels, now imagine that in a Hayabusa in a racing Radical
Favourite for me is a wiring breakdown and/or the sensor itself and do be especially watchful of 'connection spades', male and female; they can look just fine from superficial inspection, but actually can be hanging on by the merest thread; the slightest touch and they give up the ghost and fall off!
The first thing I would do is to use a thermometer (old-fashioned sort or a new fangled laser type) to find out what the water temps actually are real-time and whether those correspond (or do not correspond) with what the gauges are apparently telling me.
We had very similar issues with our 2005 SR3 1500. We changed the pump, directly wired to the pump, changed the pressure cap, none of which fixed the problem. RPE couldn't find a definitive cause either. The best they could offer is an air deflection plate that fits to the front of he side pod as apparently the shape of the early side pods actually prevented air flowing through the rad. I was never convinced though.
We had very similar issues with our 2005 SR3 1500. We changed the pump, directly wired to the pump, changed the pressure cap, none of which fixed the problem. RPE couldn't find a definitive cause either. The best they could offer is an air deflection plate that fits to the front of he side pod as apparently the shape of the early side pods actually prevented air flowing through the rad. I was never convinced though.
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