Great option for replacing rivets

[BioBa]

I found this great supplier of aircraft aluminium fasterners and I plan to replace most of my Radical rivets with aluminium button head screws and aluminium lock nuts. Very good pricing and they ship world wide! Have a look at their web site: http://www.fastener-express.com/aluminum-fasteners...
I bought a set of the M4 x .7 x 12mm and a set of the M4 x .7 x 16 mm. $11 for 50 units was about 1/3 of the price I had been quoted in Australia.
I love the fact that they also have them anodized in various colours but I stuck to the silver ones.

[Count Johnny]

Except, they're a bit heavier than a rivet and - having tried to go a bit mad on weight saving by replacing lots of non-critical stuff with aluminium hardware - I can tell you that the in-hex in the button heads tends be be a bit of a one hit wonder leaving you with a fastener that won't unfasten.

Mind you, if we're talking titanium..$$$$$$$

[BertBert]

Which rivets are you planning on replacing and why would you do that?
Bert

[Count Johnny]

And, thinking about it, I don't reckon they will exert as much clamping force and will be weaker in sheer.

It might look a bit 'trick' in some places, but I'd say any pros (and I can only think of one) would be more than outweighed by a multitude of cons.

[BioBa]

BertBert said:

Which rivets are you planning on replacing and why would you do that?
Bert

I was planning to replace the rear diffuser rivets and the rivets on the triangular front diffuser bracket.
I had to repair my rear diffuser twice and find it very cumbersome to have to drill out rivets every time plus it is inevitable that the holes become larger and larger forcing me to buy new brackets.
I think the holding power of these aircraft aluminium screws is much more than you think. It would be interesting to test it out. Has anybody done some testing?

[Count Johnny]

They won't have the tensile and shear strength of a proper, flush break, steel mandrel rivet (like a Cherry Q).

Not being entirely familiar with a Radical, in these areas, I don’t know whether Radical use ‘proper’ rivets or what the forces are, but I can tell you that you will quickly chew the in-hex out of the button head – like probably the first time.

Also - on the basis that you are introducing a baby mill, in the form of the threaded portion of the fastener – I suspect that hole elongation may be even worse.

If I had a mind to go fancy on the fastener front, again – the horse has slightly bolted, weight wise, on my Speads, so I can’t see me bothering – I’d spend the dollar on titanium:

http://www.pro-bolt.com/index.php/titanium.html

Or (really) I’d stay with rivets and buy myself a proper rivet removal tool:

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PROD...

Except (being really anal) I’ve already got one.

Edited by Count Johnny on Wednesday 20th June 09:03

[BertBert]

Makes sense if you are going to take apart and put back together many times, but personally, I'd be perfectly happy drilling and re-riveting rather than fiddling around with fasteners.

Thought you were planning on a mass-de-rivet project which would have been a bit mad

Bert

[BioBa]

Count Johnny said:

Or (really) I’d stay with rivets and buy myself a proper rivet removal tool:

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PROD...

Except (being really anal) I’ve already got one.

Edited by Count Johnny on Wednesday 20th June 09:03

Now you are talking! I did not know a rivet removal tool existed. I like it and with it I might even stay with rivets.
By the way Radical uses aluminium rivets not steel.
I'm not a member of a F1 team so Titanium screws are out of the question.

[BertBert]

oooer, I better get one of those! Mind you, it's a bit late as I'm not planning on de-panelling another radical chassis in the near future.

Did I mention the rather lovely refurbished SR4 chassis I'm selling? You're right, I did!

Bert

[splitpin]

You can almost guarantee that the few (or is it several?) that are in a 'cow-son' position for getting out with a good old drill/flexi-drive (man versus a soft old ally rivet-head is hardly a challenge) will be likewise with this.

Mind you like most, always keen to add to my extensive collection of various tools I've bought over the years that I've never or hardly ever used, especially imperial ones when nearly everything on a european car has been metric for donkeys years. So OK, I'm seriously tempted

Now, an SR4 chassis, that is news, could be interested, tell us more BB.

[Count Johnny]

BioBa said:

Now you are talking! I did not know a rivet removal tool existed. I like it and with it I might even stay with rivets.
By the way Radical uses aluminium rivets not steel.
I'm not a member of a F1 team so Titanium screws are out of the question.

Almost all rivets have an aluminium shroud and steel mandrel (that's the bit that breaks off from the 'tail' when you set it).

The big difference between a common or garden 'pop' rivet and a proper structural rivet (like a Cherry Q) is that, on a proper rivet, the mandrel breaks off at the top of the rivet - thus providing an aluminium shrouded piece of steel throughout the hole - whereas, with a 'pop' rivet, you merely get a remaining ball of steel beneath the lower surface of the two panels that are being joined - thus providing a hollow piece of pretty soft aluminium in the hole, that will immediately enter into a 'who will wear out first?'competition with the hole and will form a join that is weak in both tension and sheer.

Given the size of your country, I'm guessing that light aircraft hardware and tools will be reasonably easy to come by. If not, Aircraft Spruce, in the States, will supply and ship your heart's desires.

Fascinating subject, rivets. I could go on forever. Oh, I see I have!

[Count Johnny]

For example, this tool is a doozie for countersinking holes, for countersunk rivets, in sheet material:

http://www.panamericantool.com/countersinks/micro-...

A bit surplus to requirements since they stopped making riveted wings (for both aircraft and racing cars) out of sheet aluminium, but it's a lovely piece of kit and the ideal partner to your rivet removal tool - and the hydraulic rivet gun that your going to want to get when you get to setting 'proper' rivets.

Get one, like mine, that will set Rivnuts too.

Am I going on about rivets again?

[Count Johnny]

splitpin said:

Mind you like most, always keen to add to my extensive collection of various tools I've bought over the years that I've never or hardly ever used, especially imperial ones when nearly everything on a european car has been metric for donkeys years. So OK, I'm seriously tempted.

Unfortunately - being a bit of a bd son of a gun - my motorsickle (have you met Slo-Poke?) features Imperial, Metric and Whitworth fasteners, so travelling light can be a bit of a problem.

Obviously, all SERIOUS fasteners (being American) are Imperial, and I'm sure that the rod ends on Radicals must be Imperial.

Interestingly, really (really) high strength bolts (like ARP conrod bolts) have a thread form that is based upon Whitworth's design of 150 years ago.

Am I going on about bolts, now?

Anyway, obsessed with measurement, was Whitworth. Invented the micrometer, don'tcha know.

Blimey, I'm off again...

Edited by Count Johnny on Wednesday 20th June 18:40

[Count Johnny]

Count Johnny said:

Invented the micrometer, don'tcha know.

No he didn't. Must have made that up in my head.

[splitpin]

Count Johnny said:

Count Johnny said:

Invented the micrometer, don'tcha know.

No he didn't. Must have made that up in my head.

Now you're talking turkey .............. English, clever old devil!

Makes bloody good currants too.

Is this thread getting too lateral?

(sorry, just couldn't resist that shocker )

[Count Johnny]

splitpin said:

Makes bloody good currants too.

Raisons, too.

Do you remember those packets? Bring back memories of those jellies with fruit in them that you used to get in jars with a pop off lid, they do.

And Jublees too. Obviously, being a pedant, I used to point out to people at school that the were actually Jubilees (or was it Calypsos?)

Either way, as you can imagine - then as now - my literary prowess and attention to detail made me terribly popular with the girls!

Have I gone off on one again?

[BioBa]

I could not help myself - I bought the blind rivet removal tool. I'm excited.
Have I cought some sort of rivet virus?

[dunc_sx]

Perhaps a silly question but when you de-panel a rad chassis (I'm planning to refurbish mine this coming winter) do you basically end up with the old ones rattling about inside it?

Cheers,

Dunc.

[splitpin]

dunc_sx said:

Perhaps a silly question but when you de-panel a rad chassis (I'm planning to refurbish mine this coming winter) do you basically end up with the old ones rattling about inside it?

For the most part, that's my perception.

But a well-timed vindaloo+ will certainly more than offset the weight gain

[Count Johnny]

BioBa said:

I could not help myself - I bought the blind rivet removal tool. I'm excited.
Have I cought some sort of rivet virus?

It's certainly the start of a pretty slippery slope.