best pads for hillclimbs???
Discussion
scooby151 said:
pr6 , Hi spec
I've never been one for slavishly copying the masses, for that way mediocrity lies.......................... 
But, one is entitled to ask what the BIG BOYS use.
OK Boss, what do the BIG BOYS use?
To a man, class L (unlimited Goulds, Pilbeams, GWRs and so on) use Performance Friction PF01.
For very good reason, pretty flat mu and a linear response to pressure.
This means that, provided you put a couple of degrees in them on the way to the line, they work the first time you push the pedal and keep working in the same manner all the way to the finish. Plus, if you want to increase your rate of deceleration, you push the pedal harder. There is no "self energising effect like a lot of friction material. This effect may initially seem attractive as the retardation increases for no extra brake pressure, but this effect flatters to deceive. With downforce on a car, you want exactly the opposite, max retardation on first application when downforce is at its maximum followed by progressive reduction in braking effect as speed decreases (you'll be remembering, of course, that downforce varies with the square of velocity, so this will come as no surprise).
I used Hawk Black in Wilwood calipers with some success, I also tried Hawk Blue in line with the advice of a self-appointed expert and found that they were dreadful as they never got hot enough and only slowed the car down through material sacrfice. When I switched to HiSpec, I consulted the Late Roy's boy Anthony Lane at Tech-Craft who was unequivocal in advising PF01 - see http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=1&a...
I've used PF01 on all my cars since and know why BIG R have adopted them as their standard.
Edited by LCM on Sunday 26th February 09:18
LCM said:
splitpin said:
Oo-er ...... does this mean the Happy Couple will demonstrate formation Glasgow Handshakes @ The Reception? 
Right post: wrong thread? 
Anyway, it was always going to end in the D Word ........ you come from different sides of the river.
splitpin said:
Read your post here, remembered your proposal to Angus on the other one, his reply/recommendation way above which seemed to differ to yours. As you know, right or wrong thread has never bovvered me, ever the lateral thinker/mindless meanderer ........... anyway, nowt wrong with a bit of cross-threading, just as long as it's not on a Radical.
Anyway, it was always going to end in the D Word ........ you come from different sides of the river.
Ah!Anyway, it was always going to end in the D Word ........ you come from different sides of the river.
But do not be misled by Angus's teuchter mien into assuming that I must (for the sake of balance?) be a Sassenach. While I've lived down here for 23 years now, the ancestral home lies twixt Forth and Tay. Different sides of more than one river perhaps, but more alike than either of us cares (or dares) to admit............
Anyway, enough of this misty eyed reminiscence. There is something in what Angus says, road pads are made to work from low temps on a winter's day and bite first time every time. I guess it's a matter of the old bravery/aggression/length of arm/depth of pocket paradox.
I probably brake later, brake harder and brake more aggressively than most (I have reduced Alasdair's Civic S to a smoking, juddering, brakeless pile of poo in 2 laps of CB and Mrs M's Clio Cup to the same condition in just 3) so road pads just don't work for me.
Plus, PF01s have impressively low wear rates and are kind to discs (unlike Blacks which I've found to be pretty aggressive) so they may work out cheaper in the long run.
Be prepared for news of Angus switching from Winfield to Performance Friction as a result of this revelation.
LCM said:
But do not be misled by Angus's teuchter mien into assuming that I must (for the sake of balance?) be a Sassenach. While I've lived down here for 23 years now, the ancestral home lies twixt Forth and Tay. Different sides of more than one river perhaps, but more alike than either of us cares (or dares) to admit............
I realised .............. given the thread, somewhere near Braco would be too much of a spooky coincidence to ask for I suppose?As you say, the PF01 is a superb pad in terms of what it does and how kindly to the discs it is in the process. But, as you were possibly alluding to when you asked 'What Car/Caliper?', whilst it is not an issue to the roundy roundy green flag chaps, warm up to effectiveness does vary accordingly; rapid with near instant bite and feel in the Hi-Spec SR4 we had, whereas considerably slower with an initial wooden feel and poor bite in the Wilwood Prosport we had.
splitpin said:
I realised .............. given the thread, somewhere near Braco would be too much of a spooky coincidence to ask for I suppose?
As you say, the PF01 is a superb pad in terms of what it does and how kindly to the discs it is in the process. But, as you were possibly alluding to when you asked 'What Car/Caliper?', whilst it is not an issue to the roundy roundy green flag chaps, warm up to effectiveness does vary accordingly; rapid with near instant bite and feel in the Hi-Spec SR4 we had, whereas considerably slower with an initial wooden feel and poor bite in the Wilwood Prosport we had.
Just west of Perth actually. So, close but no cigar, Mr President. As you say, the PF01 is a superb pad in terms of what it does and how kindly to the discs it is in the process. But, as you were possibly alluding to when you asked 'What Car/Caliper?', whilst it is not an issue to the roundy roundy green flag chaps, warm up to effectiveness does vary accordingly; rapid with near instant bite and feel in the Hi-Spec SR4 we had, whereas considerably slower with an initial wooden feel and poor bite in the Wilwood Prosport we had.
LCM said:
Just west of Perth actually. So, close but no cigar, Mr President.
Being a Highlander (from as far north as the mainland goes) myself, someone from so far south could well be regarded as a Sassenach.Anyway is there any advantage changing from the standard Willwoods to HiSpecs, and are they a straight bolt on replacement?
SportsLibre said:
Being a Highlander (from as far north as the mainland goes) myself, someone from so far south could well be regarded as a Sassenach.
Anyway is there any advantage changing from the standard Willwoods to HiSpecs, and are they a straight bolt on replacement?
No advantage whatsoever. They cost money and then you just get round the track in less time and so get less value for your £. Anyway is there any advantage changing from the standard Willwoods to HiSpecs, and are they a straight bolt on replacement?
I think that what you need are some nice E-pads for your Wilwoods. We have recently started production here in the National Forest now that the Ash trees are reaching maturity - these pads are totally environmentaly friendly, re-cyclable, come from certified sustainable sources and are totally carbon neutral. They also give huge improvements in your track time/money threshold and are totally suited to someone, who if they came from any farther North, would be an Inuit
Seriously though Angus, HiSpec are a lot stiffer than the Willies and are normally matched with larger, floating rotors and PF01 pads and will transform "on the limit" braking. They are available in Wilwood compatible lug mounts. Martin B has recently switched but I'm blowed if I can find the thread at the moment where he reports on his experience. There's also another slightly veiled thread around (Trev, can you find it?) on the subject of buying direct from HiSpec (who make the R branded ones). The trick is not to phone HiSpec and ask for Radical discs and calipers (for they will quite rightly refuse to supply you with the R branded ones) but to work out the dims and then contact HiSpec and ask for calipers and rotors to those dims. They can then supply you with HiSPec branded items. IIRC HiSpec do not supply the bells so you will still need to buy these from BIG R.
Having thus upgraded your brakes you will expose the deficiencies in your "one careful owner, never raced, rallied or rolled, ten year old slicks"..........................
LCM said:
This one? >http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I think the one on Martin B's braking improvements is in the other place?
Edited by splitpin on Monday 27th February 17:08
splitpin said:
This one? >
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I think the one on Martin B's braking improvements is in the other place?
Well, that's what I thought too.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I think the one on Martin B's braking improvements is in the other place?
Edited by splitpin on Monday 27th February 17:08
But spent a nostalgic hour looking,
provisionally concluded that it must be under an obscure title so learnt an awful lot about ostrich sexing then gave up as there's more to life..................
Josh Smith said:
Wasn't it on the ROC forum under one of Myds SR4 posts?
Yes it was!It's here: http://www.radicalownersclub.com/forum/viewtopic.p... in the middle of page 2. My visual memory had it as a much bigger post so I only read the first line during my search and so missed the key comment in the 2nd line.
Must be getting old or tired (or both )
I think I need a holiday.
That's a good idea L.
I know, let's go on a tour
of Michelin diners in Eastern France 
to help the latest attempt to once more achieve racing snake status. 
Excellent
Eurostar Thursday lunchtime then, dinnner at Jacky Michel in Chalons
take it from there........Au revoir mes copins, a tout a l'heure. Le grand repas commence.......
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