Clubsport zzr1100 upgrade
Discussion
Hi All, I moved to Cyprus some time ago and they have just opened a track here (Achna) Currently i have a standard zzr engine from a bike in my clubsport but this quickly established a lap record. I had broken the casing on my powertec engine but i now have one to put all the powertec internals in which will give me an extra 25 hp (previous dyno of 150hp) My question is while this engine is currently stripped what can i upgrade as my friends liked the radical so much they are importing prosports.The track here is very tight and i only get into 4th so i was looking for alternate gearing. I found a 54 tooth rear sprocket but would like a 14 tooth front if anyone knows the whearabouts. Can i upgrade the zzr to compete with the busa of the prosport or should i go the busa route. Thanks in advance Keith
Powertec ZZR's are actually pretty standard inside, if you do a search on this forum for ZZR1100/powertec/ clubsport upgrade etc you'll get a few threads on this stuff which will be more helpful than my response. Whichever way you look at it you'll not keep up with a 'busa in a straight line with a ZZR1100, upgrading to 'busa isn't cheap though>
If you can't find the other threads I'll dig them out for you.
Dunc.
If you can't find the other threads I'll dig them out for you.
Dunc.
First thing to say is that I'm a Hayabusa fan having owned/used most variations from standard 1300 to full house 1598.
Second thing to say is that Japanese superbike engine are so good to start with that tuning them always ends up costing lots of money for not a huge gain in power.
So, what to do?
Fit a bigger engine!
Yes, you could fit a 1300 K7 'Busa (or, for more money, a 1340 K8) but why not consider staying with Kawasaki and fitting a ZZR1400 (or ZX14). The ZZR 1400 is a stunning engine (hard for me to say that as a 'Busa man) and on the same dyno and the same chassis I've seen a standard one with a Power Commander produce RWHP figures in the same ball park as a 1440 or 1475 'Busa. You can read more on the topic here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... zzr 1400 into a radical SR4
With that much power, you might want to do something about the aero but that's a story for another day.
As for gearing, a good rule of thumb is that 1 tooth on the engine sprocket is worth 10mph and 1 tooth on the diff sprocket 3mph. If you're competent with Excel, you can obviously write your own spreadsheet to do all the maths or PM me and I'll send you one for a 1200 Kwakker that you can adapt.
Second thing to say is that Japanese superbike engine are so good to start with that tuning them always ends up costing lots of money for not a huge gain in power.
So, what to do?
Fit a bigger engine!
Yes, you could fit a 1300 K7 'Busa (or, for more money, a 1340 K8) but why not consider staying with Kawasaki and fitting a ZZR1400 (or ZX14). The ZZR 1400 is a stunning engine (hard for me to say that as a 'Busa man) and on the same dyno and the same chassis I've seen a standard one with a Power Commander produce RWHP figures in the same ball park as a 1440 or 1475 'Busa. You can read more on the topic here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... zzr 1400 into a radical SR4
With that much power, you might want to do something about the aero but that's a story for another day.
As for gearing, a good rule of thumb is that 1 tooth on the engine sprocket is worth 10mph and 1 tooth on the diff sprocket 3mph. If you're competent with Excel, you can obviously write your own spreadsheet to do all the maths or PM me and I'll send you one for a 1200 Kwakker that you can adapt.
LCM said:
Second thing to say is that Japanese superbike engine are so good to start with that tuning them always ends up costing lots of money for not a huge gain in power.
Very wise words, well worth listening to and taking onboard.I have seen post wallet removal calculations based on "how much per additional rwhp did that cost me?" and you'd be amazed, some might even say horrified; all I would say is that the vast majority of folks who have been there/done that have been heard exclaiming "if I'd have known that for sure I wouldn't have!"
The most cost-effective performance enhancement available is to be had from that organic thingy clutching the steering wheel, then with hill-climbing, there's all that aero, gearing, suspension, brakes etc malarkey ............ and the quantum of brave pills one can swallow.
splitpin said:
Very wise words, well worth listening to and taking onboard.
I have seen post wallet removal calculations based on "how much per additional rwhp did that cost me?" and you'd be amazed, some might even say horrified; all I would say is that the vast majority of folks who have been there/done that have been heard exclaiming "if I'd have known that for sure I wouldn't have!"
The most cost-effective performance enhancement available is to be had from that organic thingy clutching the steering wheel, then with hill-climbing, there's all that aero, gearing, suspension, brakes etc malarkey ............ and the quantum of brave pills one can swallow.
ahh brave pills where can i get some?need to visit bank manager,thanks man with fast car and no pills.I have seen post wallet removal calculations based on "how much per additional rwhp did that cost me?" and you'd be amazed, some might even say horrified; all I would say is that the vast majority of folks who have been there/done that have been heard exclaiming "if I'd have known that for sure I wouldn't have!"
The most cost-effective performance enhancement available is to be had from that organic thingy clutching the steering wheel, then with hill-climbing, there's all that aero, gearing, suspension, brakes etc malarkey ............ and the quantum of brave pills one can swallow.
splitpin said:
Very wise words, well worth listening to and taking onboard.
I have seen post wallet removal calculations based on "how much per additional rwhp did that cost me?" and you'd be amazed, some might even say horrified; all I would say is that the vast majority of folks who have been there/done that have been heard exclaiming "if I'd have known that for sure I wouldn't have!"
The most cost-effective performance enhancement available is to be had from that organic thingy clutching the steering wheel, then with hill-climbing, there's all that aero, gearing, suspension, brakes etc malarkey ............ and the quantum of brave pills one can swallow.
ahh brave pills where can i get some?need to visit bank manager,thanks man with fast car and no pills.I have seen post wallet removal calculations based on "how much per additional rwhp did that cost me?" and you'd be amazed, some might even say horrified; all I would say is that the vast majority of folks who have been there/done that have been heard exclaiming "if I'd have known that for sure I wouldn't have!"
The most cost-effective performance enhancement available is to be had from that organic thingy clutching the steering wheel, then with hill-climbing, there's all that aero, gearing, suspension, brakes etc malarkey ............ and the quantum of brave pills one can swallow.
Thanks for the advice so far, The track here is much tighter than anything in the uk, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedjTXm8QXM The purpose here is to compete with the busa engined prosports that are coming. If you look on the vid you can see that the straights are not very long but i do need more straight line speed.So again which would be the best route. I like the sound of the kawasaki 1400 but are these available reasonably priced? I would welcome any engines for sale, even a powertec 185. Finally i have tried to identify an engine by its number and have failed. The number is Zx1 28004613. any help would be appreciated. My urgency on parts is that a container leaves uk on 17th Jan. many thanks in advance again
radical27 said:
Thanks for the advice so far, The track here is much tighter than anything in the uk, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedjTXm8QXM The purpose here is to compete with the busa engined prosports that are coming. If you look on the vid you can see that the straights are not very long but i do need more straight line speed.So again which would be the best route. I like the sound of the kawasaki 1400 but are these available reasonably priced? I would welcome any engines for sale, even a powertec 185. Finally i have tried to identify an engine by its number and have failed. The number is Zx1 28004613. any help would be appreciated. My urgency on parts is that a container leaves uk on 17th Jan. many thanks in advance again
That's not tight. But this is:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzHRTouiG34 (my son on his first time in a racing car [an 1100 Clubbie now owned by viperu in Romania])
I know it's a sprint track but a 1400 Clubbie with good aero (modesty prevents me naming the designer) is competitive with 1500 Prosport times.
dunc_sx said:
Powertec ZZR's are actually pretty standard inside, if you do a search on this forum for ZZR1100/powertec/ clubsport upgrade etc you'll get a few threads on this stuff which will be more helpful than my response. Whichever way you look at it you'll not keep up with a 'busa in a straight line with a ZZR1100, upgrading to 'busa isn't cheap though>
Don't rule out a ZZR1200 though. I got a cheap one off ebay, did the mods to dry sump it and while it was apart ported the head, reassembled it and stuffed it in the car (Clubsport) September last year, beat the 1300 Prosports at Combe at the last race and didn't let a 1500 SR4 get away at Lydden after that. Didn't even get a chance to rolling road it so probably wasn't running completely optimal and gearing way too tall at Lydden.The Powertec ZZR1100s do have a small amount of porting done on them, some of it in the right place too!!
(as found when I took my one apart).
The 1200 crossed my mind but i hadnt heard any reports until now. Fitting isnt a problem,nor is making new mounts or making exhausts. I even have access to a brand new dyno. The problem is Glen Finns 1300 prosport is coming and i need to compete with that. The gearing is also a big problem here, we really need a 14 tooth front sprocket,but cant find one anywhere or a closer ratio box. The new owner of the prosport goes around in my clubbie in about the same time as me so there is nothing in the drivers so i need to even up the cars. Any engines out there?
Thanks Martin,It seems i have 3 options which all require different degrees of wallet opening. The cheapest appears to be a rebore using my original head and cams with the poss addition of a dyno ign, the middle option appears to be a 1200 conversion with my cams,and thirdly the scary wallet one of putting a busa in. Any further suggestions appreciated and of course any offers of a "giveaway" engine invited.
Hi Martin, i will check tomorrow as im out on track again.What brake pads are available these days, i guess i should replace mine as the car has been unused for a few years. I did find some used ones in a box i had, they are hawk hb 104 but going onto cambridge motorsports site (where they came from) they dont seem to list them. I also have my avo fronts set to 3 clicks, is that right.
Damper settings depend upon the track, tyres (type/make/pressures), spring rates and how you like it to feel.
Just try it on lots of different settings and see how it goes.
I ran mine on 7 clicks front (350 lb springs) 14 clicks rear (600 lb springs) and used to back it off to 3 front 7 rear in the wet (on Dunlop Radials) but that is withe rear wing and front splitter/diffuser etc
Just try it on lots of different settings and see how it goes.
I ran mine on 7 clicks front (350 lb springs) 14 clicks rear (600 lb springs) and used to back it off to 3 front 7 rear in the wet (on Dunlop Radials) but that is withe rear wing and front splitter/diffuser etc
Gassing Station | Radical | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff