Discussion
Would appreciate some elementary feedback on some recent thoughts.
For some time I've been mulling over whether to buy a track day car or not.
In essence, I found track days boring in closed top cars and about 5 years ago just stopped doing it. I was also never a great fan of ragging my road cars.
However, I recently drove a single seater and couldn't stop laughing. It's clear that the thrill of a sticky, open top, track focussed car is there.
I'm not actually interested in a super fast car as I suspect that I would never come close to finding it's limits and also it will be pretty lonely on track days having no competition. I'd rather have a slower car than most as this creates challenges that require improving skills and experience to counter.
It doesn't need to be road going, but I guess that could be an advantage.
Ultimately, it would make sense to buy something that is eligiable for various race series.
The Caterham seems a logical option and while I have a beard and drink real ale it is a stereotype I'm in no rush to conform to.
The core question is whether a Radical is a prudent option and then which one, bearing in mind that I'd er towards a slower car, it needs to be cheap to run and repair etc within reason.
TIA.
For some time I've been mulling over whether to buy a track day car or not.
In essence, I found track days boring in closed top cars and about 5 years ago just stopped doing it. I was also never a great fan of ragging my road cars.
However, I recently drove a single seater and couldn't stop laughing. It's clear that the thrill of a sticky, open top, track focussed car is there.
I'm not actually interested in a super fast car as I suspect that I would never come close to finding it's limits and also it will be pretty lonely on track days having no competition. I'd rather have a slower car than most as this creates challenges that require improving skills and experience to counter.
It doesn't need to be road going, but I guess that could be an advantage.
Ultimately, it would make sense to buy something that is eligiable for various race series.
The Caterham seems a logical option and while I have a beard and drink real ale it is a stereotype I'm in no rush to conform to.
The core question is whether a Radical is a prudent option and then which one, bearing in mind that I'd er towards a slower car, it needs to be cheap to run and repair etc within reason.
TIA.
With the proviso that every Radical is and will be super fast compared to virtually every other car and you can live without a road-goer, if it's still available, I'd say go look at (and likely buy) Casper >
http://www.radicalownersclub.com/view-classified/1...
http://www.radicalownersclub.com/view-classified/1...
Edited by splitpin on Monday 19th September 17:19
Well, that's twice this year I have agreed with Trev. It'll do ok with a 17 stone person, but clearly you wont get a pax in (being only a single seat). I think if taking pax is an essential, you'll need to go SR3. 17st plus ano won't work all that well in a SR4.
But don't dismiss the caterham option. I wasn't really aware that Caterham owners are that beardy! They are different cars to run at track days and the radical needs more attention on the day and between.
What's your budget?
Bert
But don't dismiss the caterham option. I wasn't really aware that Caterham owners are that beardy! They are different cars to run at track days and the radical needs more attention on the day and between.
What's your budget?
Bert
That solves that query. 
. Sorry for not mentioning I was aiming for 2 seats. Primarily as I would be bringing an instructor with me etc.
My Old Man had an original 7 when I was a kid so I have a soft spot for them. It was the car i learnt to drive in, on private roads when i was about 13. Also a very good friend has Graham Nearn's old CSR which is a phenomenal bit of kit.
I've spent a reasonable amount of time behind the wheel of Caterhams and I'll never have a negative word for them but it doesn't do it for me. There isn't any logic here, it's just one of those irrational things.
I was looking at a Westfield XTR but it was suggested that a Radical was all round a little better on the track.
Re budget, I don't really know. The way I am looking at this is that the more money tied up in something the more you feel obliged to use it and the more you worry about damaging it. I guess I'd look at no more than £25k.
. Sorry for not mentioning I was aiming for 2 seats. Primarily as I would be bringing an instructor with me etc. My Old Man had an original 7 when I was a kid so I have a soft spot for them. It was the car i learnt to drive in, on private roads when i was about 13. Also a very good friend has Graham Nearn's old CSR which is a phenomenal bit of kit.
I've spent a reasonable amount of time behind the wheel of Caterhams and I'll never have a negative word for them but it doesn't do it for me. There isn't any logic here, it's just one of those irrational things.
I was looking at a Westfield XTR but it was suggested that a Radical was all round a little better on the track.
Re budget, I don't really know. The way I am looking at this is that the more money tied up in something the more you feel obliged to use it and the more you worry about damaging it. I guess I'd look at no more than £25k.
DonkeyApple said:
I was looking at a Westfield XTR but it was suggested that a Radical was all round a little better on the track.
A what?No competition!
Everyone I've ever known has weeweed (sp) all over the XTR in the most basic Clubbie (even if the Westie has a 'Busa).
Despite the fact that at times we moan about the BIG R here, we know that £ for £ they can't be beat.
S26VE P said:
For that budget you will easily get an SR3 with change. As you don't want full on fastest a 1300. Radical themselves had a few cheap examples recently.
What's the difference between the ones around 20k and those above 40k?Is it just age/usage or are the newer ones notably different tech?
Also, I can imagine that on track days it could get annoying as I'm guessing that exit speeds are far more a function of entry speed than on more conventional performance cars which rely more on power to pull out of a corner. Thus on busy days you'll have to go in slow due to traffic and struggle to then get past after as they power out and you are having to get back your lost pace?
Do people find themselves being held back and frustrated on many days?
I did a donington track day in my SR3 RS earlier this year and it was very frustrating indeed. In the old days in my clubbie it felt just right at track days. Up there with the fastest caterhams, 911s etc, but not overwhelmingly quicker.
So it could well be that a 1300 SR3 works really well for what you want to do. You could get Radical to get you out in one at one of their try out days.
The cost ramp comes in with newness and goodies. The high cost ones will the the RS type with lots of factory goodies (like paddles, air jacks, full data logging, centre lock wheels etc). There's nothing wrong with the older non-RS types, 1300, manual shift etc.
What you need to do though is to avoid a worn out one! Sounds obvious, but you don't want to be constantly fixing tired bits that break. That's not specifically because of cost, but it'll certainly ruin the fun if it keeps having issues on track days.
And finally, never believe what people say about the hours of their engine without documentary (preferably ecu download) proof. So look for a properly looked after car or a refreshed one from Radical.
HTH
Bert
So it could well be that a 1300 SR3 works really well for what you want to do. You could get Radical to get you out in one at one of their try out days.
The cost ramp comes in with newness and goodies. The high cost ones will the the RS type with lots of factory goodies (like paddles, air jacks, full data logging, centre lock wheels etc). There's nothing wrong with the older non-RS types, 1300, manual shift etc.
What you need to do though is to avoid a worn out one! Sounds obvious, but you don't want to be constantly fixing tired bits that break. That's not specifically because of cost, but it'll certainly ruin the fun if it keeps having issues on track days.
And finally, never believe what people say about the hours of their engine without documentary (preferably ecu download) proof. So look for a properly looked after car or a refreshed one from Radical.
HTH
Bert
Thanks for that. Very informative.
I would probably buy from Radical as I would be knew to the product and for simplicity be happy to pay for peace of mind.
So, the older SR3 is the 1300 with less goodies and could get involved in tussles with other cars? For me track day thrills were not just about honing your own personal ability but also being able to bench mark your improvements by slowly reeling in a car in front or keeping one at bay in your mirrors.
So long as the product is well matched with things like Caterhams then this should be fine but I am worried that you end up with something which is too good to do this with.
Also, what levels of fettling are required? Obviously with a 7 you can essentially drive to the track and go straight on. With the Radical it's obviously going to need extracting from a box but does it require tinkering on site etc?
Thanks.
I would probably buy from Radical as I would be knew to the product and for simplicity be happy to pay for peace of mind.
So, the older SR3 is the 1300 with less goodies and could get involved in tussles with other cars? For me track day thrills were not just about honing your own personal ability but also being able to bench mark your improvements by slowly reeling in a car in front or keeping one at bay in your mirrors.
So long as the product is well matched with things like Caterhams then this should be fine but I am worried that you end up with something which is too good to do this with.
Also, what levels of fettling are required? Obviously with a 7 you can essentially drive to the track and go straight on. With the Radical it's obviously going to need extracting from a box but does it require tinkering on site etc?
Thanks.
I think the 1300 SR3 would match that requirement extremely well.
Also with an SR3 you don't have a chain to check and maintain. There shouldn't be too much fettling at a track day provided the base car is in good nick. You would check it over between sessions. Front and rear body off, tug wheels, check brakes, suspension clean and inspect. Check oil and coolant. Look for leaks and stuff. The less technology the better for this. No need for flappy paddles, air jacks, centre locks etc.
If the weather is changeable and you are running slicks and wets, you can end up with quite a lot of wheel changes and changing suspension settings between wet, damp and dry.
Then you need to do a thorough clean and check between track days so you end up in good condition for the next one.
Depending on where you are, come to Snett for the next Radical race meeting to have a gander. We're a friendly bunch!
Bert
Also with an SR3 you don't have a chain to check and maintain. There shouldn't be too much fettling at a track day provided the base car is in good nick. You would check it over between sessions. Front and rear body off, tug wheels, check brakes, suspension clean and inspect. Check oil and coolant. Look for leaks and stuff. The less technology the better for this. No need for flappy paddles, air jacks, centre locks etc.
If the weather is changeable and you are running slicks and wets, you can end up with quite a lot of wheel changes and changing suspension settings between wet, damp and dry.
Then you need to do a thorough clean and check between track days so you end up in good condition for the next one.
Depending on where you are, come to Snett for the next Radical race meeting to have a gander. We're a friendly bunch!
Bert
BertBert said:
I think the 1300 SR3 would match that requirement extremely well.
Also with an SR3 you don't have a chain to check and maintain. There shouldn't be too much fettling at a track day provided the base car is in good nick. You would check it over between sessions. Front and rear body off, tug wheels, check brakes, suspension clean and inspect. Check oil and coolant. Look for leaks and stuff. The less technology the better for this. No need for flappy paddles, air jacks, centre locks etc.
If the weather is changeable and you are running slicks and wets, you can end up with quite a lot of wheel changes and changing suspension settings between wet, damp and dry.
Then you need to do a thorough clean and check between track days so you end up in good condition for the next one.
Depending on where you are, come to Snett for the next Radical race meeting to have a gander. We're a friendly bunch!
Bert
Cheers. I might well do that. Also with an SR3 you don't have a chain to check and maintain. There shouldn't be too much fettling at a track day provided the base car is in good nick. You would check it over between sessions. Front and rear body off, tug wheels, check brakes, suspension clean and inspect. Check oil and coolant. Look for leaks and stuff. The less technology the better for this. No need for flappy paddles, air jacks, centre locks etc.
If the weather is changeable and you are running slicks and wets, you can end up with quite a lot of wheel changes and changing suspension settings between wet, damp and dry.
Then you need to do a thorough clean and check between track days so you end up in good condition for the next one.
Depending on where you are, come to Snett for the next Radical race meeting to have a gander. We're a friendly bunch!
Bert
I will remember though not to mention the XTR, it seems to incur the same kind of frothing that mantioning putting a Chevvy engine in a TVR does to those chaps
One final question: I've seen some older cars for sale which have been made road legal, this does have some interest as I would most likely be going to track days alongside Caterhams which will be driving there. Obviously, it's not going to drive like a Rolls but other than the downside of compromise tyres and carrying only a small tool kit etc do people do this and get by?
DonkeyApple said:
BertBert said:
I think the 1300 SR3 would match that requirement extremely well.
Also with an SR3 you don't have a chain to check and maintain. There shouldn't be too much fettling at a track day provided the base car is in good nick. You would check it over between sessions. Front and rear body off, tug wheels, check brakes, suspension clean and inspect. Check oil and coolant. Look for leaks and stuff. The less technology the better for this. No need for flappy paddles, air jacks, centre locks etc.
If the weather is changeable and you are running slicks and wets, you can end up with quite a lot of wheel changes and changing suspension settings between wet, damp and dry.
Then you need to do a thorough clean and check between track days so you end up in good condition for the next one.
Depending on where you are, come to Snett for the next Radical race meeting to have a gander. We're a friendly bunch!
Bert
Cheers. I might well do that. Also with an SR3 you don't have a chain to check and maintain. There shouldn't be too much fettling at a track day provided the base car is in good nick. You would check it over between sessions. Front and rear body off, tug wheels, check brakes, suspension clean and inspect. Check oil and coolant. Look for leaks and stuff. The less technology the better for this. No need for flappy paddles, air jacks, centre locks etc.
If the weather is changeable and you are running slicks and wets, you can end up with quite a lot of wheel changes and changing suspension settings between wet, damp and dry.
Then you need to do a thorough clean and check between track days so you end up in good condition for the next one.
Depending on where you are, come to Snett for the next Radical race meeting to have a gander. We're a friendly bunch!
Bert
I will remember though not to mention the XTR, it seems to incur the same kind of frothing that mantioning putting a Chevvy engine in a TVR does to those chaps
One final question: I've seen some older cars for sale which have been made road legal, this does have some interest as I would most likely be going to track days alongside Caterhams which will be driving there. Obviously, it's not going to drive like a Rolls but other than the downside of compromise tyres and carrying only a small tool kit etc do people do this and get by?
Yep, whilst a lot of folks can't really see the attraction, folks do have road-reg Rads that they drive to tracks and then trackday. And they absolutely love them and that's all that matters.
And here's one Radical Owner that wouldn't knock XTRs: I come across the odd one here and there and those that I see are generally very well cared for and driven by like-minded genuinely nice folks who take a lot of pride in their car. No, they are nowhere near as quick as a Rad and I would expect that; a Rad is a race car that is being lightly used in a trackday context, whereas an XTR is sort of a Caterfield made to look like a Rad.
So said, they go well enough and I for one would rather have a well-maintained (and it has to be said sorted) XTR than a misused and abused Radical.
The best decision you will ever make in your 'I want to go really fast' life will be to buy the right (a spot on) Radical.
The worst decision you will ever make in your 'I want to go really fast' life will be to buy the wrong (a crappy) Radical.
Edited by splitpin on Tuesday 20th September 12:27
splitpin said:
As BertBert says providing a Radical is in good nick and properly prepped beforehand, the actual maintenance side at a Trackday is not very demanding at all; in fact, other than taking off and putting back on bodywork to get to things, I'd say it's a breeze; if anything, I think he sort of oversells the merits of no chain on a 3; the chain drive is far more DIYer friendly for swapping over rear cogs for different tracks and with no full blooded race-type starts on Trackdays, my experience is that if the chain is a good one, it probably needs adjustment about every three trackdays. 2 or 3 lubes during the course of the day, what's difficult about that. So said, with your weight, it suggests a 3 if you need two seats, so cast chains from your mind; so said, I think a camera and proper datalogging allows hugely talented chaps like Nigel Greensall to put you right/point out the error of your ways just as well as actually sitting alongside you.
Yep, whilst a lot of folks can't really see the attraction, folks do have road-reg Rads that they drive to tracks and then trackday. And they absolutely love them and that's all that matters.
And here's one Radical Owner that wouldn't knock XTRs: I come across the odd one here and there and those that I see are generally very well cared for and driven by like-minded genuinely nice folks who take a lot of pride in their car. No, they are nowhere near as quick as a Rad and I would expect that; a Rad is a race car that is being lightly used in a trackday context, whereas an XTR is sort of a Caterfield made to look like a Rad.
So said, they go well enough and I for one would rather have a well-maintained (and it has to be said sorted) XTR than a misused and abused Radical.
The best decision you will ever make in your 'I want to go really fast' life will be to buy the right (a spot on) Radical.
The worst decision you will ever make in your 'I want to go really fast' life will be to buy the wrong (a crappy) Radical.
Cheers.Yep, whilst a lot of folks can't really see the attraction, folks do have road-reg Rads that they drive to tracks and then trackday. And they absolutely love them and that's all that matters.
And here's one Radical Owner that wouldn't knock XTRs: I come across the odd one here and there and those that I see are generally very well cared for and driven by like-minded genuinely nice folks who take a lot of pride in their car. No, they are nowhere near as quick as a Rad and I would expect that; a Rad is a race car that is being lightly used in a trackday context, whereas an XTR is sort of a Caterfield made to look like a Rad.
So said, they go well enough and I for one would rather have a well-maintained (and it has to be said sorted) XTR than a misused and abused Radical.
The best decision you will ever make in your 'I want to go really fast' life will be to buy the right (a spot on) Radical.
The worst decision you will ever make in your 'I want to go really fast' life will be to buy the wrong (a crappy) Radical.
Edited by splitpin on Tuesday 20th September 12:27
Knowing what I am like just a simple package to run and maintain for a season or two is suffice. At a later date, if it becomes a bug then spending more time tailoring the vehicle etc becomes an easy choice.
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