PR6 unexplained engine cut out
Discussion
Hi Guys,
Anyone got a clue on this one? July 3rd exiting chicane at Donington engine simply dies as if ignition suddenly cut off. Coasted into pit lane, fiddled around with Master Switch, ignition switch - engine fires up and continues to end of race. No signs of anything unusual - put it down to having accidentally flicked ignition switch with back of my glove.
August 27th Silverstone - car runs perfectly all day.
September 10th Brands Hatch - engine suddenly dies after about 8 laps of practice. Towed back to pits where engine fires up and runs perfectly. Fellow driver John Powis takes car out for his practice; after about 8 or 10 laps engine dies on him too. Car towed back to pits where it then starts instantly. In my first race car runs faultlessly. In second race after about 10 laps I'm lying 3rd when engine dies at Druids. Coast onto grass. Switch everything off and after about 20 seconds on again. Engine fires up and car runs OK to end of race. All the instrument read outs are normal although John and I have both hit the soft limiter a couple of times. Cut out possibly experienced in right hand corners but hard to pinpoint. Fellow driver John Powis runs gingerly in his wet race with no problems.
What is causing the sudden cut out and where do I start the investigation? Any ideas?
Anyone got a clue on this one? July 3rd exiting chicane at Donington engine simply dies as if ignition suddenly cut off. Coasted into pit lane, fiddled around with Master Switch, ignition switch - engine fires up and continues to end of race. No signs of anything unusual - put it down to having accidentally flicked ignition switch with back of my glove.
August 27th Silverstone - car runs perfectly all day.
September 10th Brands Hatch - engine suddenly dies after about 8 laps of practice. Towed back to pits where engine fires up and runs perfectly. Fellow driver John Powis takes car out for his practice; after about 8 or 10 laps engine dies on him too. Car towed back to pits where it then starts instantly. In my first race car runs faultlessly. In second race after about 10 laps I'm lying 3rd when engine dies at Druids. Coast onto grass. Switch everything off and after about 20 seconds on again. Engine fires up and car runs OK to end of race. All the instrument read outs are normal although John and I have both hit the soft limiter a couple of times. Cut out possibly experienced in right hand corners but hard to pinpoint. Fellow driver John Powis runs gingerly in his wet race with no problems.
What is causing the sudden cut out and where do I start the investigation? Any ideas?
Funnily enough we have a similarly 'intermittent' problem with the Pro - mostly going like a good 'un then a slight misfire with no particular pattern. Grrr, don't you just love (meaning hate) something that's intermittent!
You say 'possibly experienced in right hand corners', but when you say 'out of chicane @ Dony' I'm thinking just before the start finish straight which is a left milliseconds after a right?
Does it 'drop dead on the spot' or is there any 'spluttering' prior to the pulse stopping?
You say 'possibly experienced in right hand corners', but when you say 'out of chicane @ Dony' I'm thinking just before the start finish straight which is a left milliseconds after a right?
Does it 'drop dead on the spot' or is there any 'spluttering' prior to the pulse stopping?
Not much of an idea about the problem i'm afraid...although I did have a similar problem in my SR4 round right hand bends and this was down to a fueling issue.
Incidentally I was watching at Brands on Saturday, you were doing a good job of holding off the SR3 until that happened !
Incidentally I was watching at Brands on Saturday, you were doing a good job of holding off the SR3 until that happened !
Edited by jamesrose on Tuesday 13th September 12:27
Since posting this issue last night, my mate John Powis has spoken to the big R. They suggest that the ECU is shutting down the electronics because the STACK system oil pressure censor is showing below the (self-designated) warning level and consequently the STACK system is telling the Radical ECU to cut the engine. This makes a certain amount of sense because it was not until Donington that we blanked off part of the oil radiator in order to raise the oil temperature which was too low. Higher oil temperature equals thinner oil, equals lower pressure at low revs. Why lower revs? Well on the approach to Druids I am trail braking and shifting from 4th to 3rd to 2nd all within a very short distance and sometimes the revs can die as I brake and do not have a lot of throttle applied with my right foot. Looking back I am fairly sure that I saw the oil pressure warning light flashing for a split second before the engine died.
Does this make sense?
Of course we will check earths and all other connections too.
Does this make sense?
Of course we will check earths and all other connections too.
Suddenly I remember RPE's Technical Bulletin dated 17 August!
And frankly, being a KISS sort of chap, I'm wondering whether it's all perhaps getting a bit tooooooo clever ......... i.e. it's my money inside the wallet and I'd prefer to be the one deciding if, where and when to call time/pull the plug on/allow respite to the engine in terms of oil pressure/temp, coolant temp, fuel pressure ................
And frankly, being a KISS sort of chap, I'm wondering whether it's all perhaps getting a bit tooooooo clever ......... i.e. it's my money inside the wallet and I'd prefer to be the one deciding if, where and when to call time/pull the plug on/allow respite to the engine in terms of oil pressure/temp, coolant temp, fuel pressure ................
This may be too simple a solution for the problem but make sure ALL the electrical connections behind the dashboard are safe and secure...if they're breaking down ( hard to diagnose ) or are simply loose and give a hit & miss connection this will give out varying signals or simply breaks a connection and the whole circuit falls down..
Simple Old Bloke..
Simple Old Bloke..
It'll be easy to tell from the data logged I presume? If you can see how the OP fluctuates, you can compare with the cut-off thresholds.
As to whether it's a good idea, then you pays yer money...
If it works flawlessly and saves an engine, then it's great. If the thresholds are marginal and it keeps cutting the engine without need, then it'll be a pain in the neck. I think that RPE have just increased some of the values as they were changing the settings at Anglesey.
Bert
As to whether it's a good idea, then you pays yer money...
If it works flawlessly and saves an engine, then it's great. If the thresholds are marginal and it keeps cutting the engine without need, then it'll be a pain in the neck. I think that RPE have just increased some of the values as they were changing the settings at Anglesey.
Bert
It is very likely to be the low oil pressure cut-out. I had this at Anglesey last wkd. Near identical situation and cure. I don't have time right now to consider the detail but I'm sure there are transient situations where the sensor could 'see' a low oil pressure condition, for, say, a very brief period, and when the ECU compares this to RPM etc it's clearly not tallying up, and therefore shutting down.
Also in conversation with the RPE guys, they said they are working on a way of telling you when one of the cutouts has happened rather then just being left with a stopped engine and guesses.
It's a bit hit and miss at the moment. Your engine stops, what do you do? Try and restart of course, but if the cutout has happened, that's exactly what you are no supposed to do!
It's a bit hit and miss at the moment. Your engine stops, what do you do? Try and restart of course, but if the cutout has happened, that's exactly what you are no supposed to do!
mabbott said:
It is very likely to be the low oil pressure cut-out. I had this at Anglesey last wkd.
If as it reads, this incident is the reason I've just received an RPE Tech Bulletin called "Old Oil" (which I opened with interest as I thought "hello, after that recent Fastest Electric Car Ring Record, have we yet another green initiative emerging from Peterborough?) .............NO WORRIES GUYS, IT'S ALL YOUR OWN FAULT, YOU BUNCH OF CHEAPSKATES
splitpin said:
If as it reads, this incident is the reason I've just received an RPE Tech Bulletin called "Old Oil" (which I opened with interest as I thought "hello, after that recent Fastest Electric Car Ring Record, have we yet another green initiative emerging from Peterborough?) .............
NO WORRIES GUYS, IT'S ALL YOUR OWN FAULT, YOU BUNCH OF CHEAPSKATES
Said bulletin has not arrived at Bert-Towers, what does it say Trev?NO WORRIES GUYS, IT'S ALL YOUR OWN FAULT, YOU BUNCH OF CHEAPSKATES
ETA: I've probably been struck off the distribution list as I always respond with inane questions such as "when the cut-out has happened, how do we know what's happened?"
Bert
BertBert said:
Also in conversation with the RPE guys, they said they are working on a way of telling you when one of the cutouts has happened rather then just being left with a stopped engine and guesses.
It's a bit hit and miss at the moment. Your engine stops, what do you do? Try and restart of course, but if the cutout has happened, that's exactly what you are no supposed to do!
What!It's a bit hit and miss at the moment. Your engine stops, what do you do? Try and restart of course, but if the cutout has happened, that's exactly what you are no supposed to do!
Surely you just download the data for the run, look at it in LifeView and see if the key parameter (eg eop1)has strayed below the trigger line (eg eop1 trip) for the critical time (eg 1 sec).
While the Life software is a bit clunky, I have always found it to be stable and reliable (unlike other logging/display systems). So, if the Life system cuts the engine there should not be any mystery about why.
Or am I missing something again?
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