mgb smoke from vents

[jms700]

hello, another post sorry.

started the car up this morning, and as soon as i started moving smoked poured out of the windscreen vents for about 5 seconds then stopped. is this a heater core issue ? i looked for leakes onto the exhasut and couldnt see any. its not happened again. any advice?

thanks

[na]

If it's the heater matrix leaking then it wont be smoke as such

If it was smoke then obviously be very careful before driving the car

If it was mist could it be water from outside the car (rain/washing)

More details needed

what colour "smoke"?

what did it smell like?

Edited: as you wont smell the coolant at start up

Edited by na on Thursday 5th May 15:52

[jms700]

quite sure it was smoke, was thick and white ish, i know this isnt going to be the best description, but it smelt old and musty. not like plastic melting i dont think. it has been brilliant weather up here for a few weaks and i accidently left my window open last night and it was humid. could damness of got in and causes some sparks and then smoke ?

thanks for the quick reply

[na]

electrical burning has quite a distintive smell, it depends what's burning as to smoke colour

problem solving over a forum is very difficult and video doesn't show smoke or the smell well

because of that I may be wrong now - but - I doubt (note the word used) it's rain on your electrics - soft top cars are sometimes parked and driven in very heavy rain

to logically diagnose the problem it's questions and answers

up to you, either by one finger typing or if you email me I'll give you my tele number and try and talk you through it - note I'm not a mechanic, electrician or even b owner now - just experience

[na]

jms700 said:

it smelt old and musty

I was very tempted to put an old (B) joke in reply there

that might be the clue but even there are more than one possible cause

[jms700]

seeing as its not happened since i dont think theres much diagnosing i can do until it happens again ( tomoro morning maybe, not at all hopefully) but thanks for the offer.

iv been on a lot of forums for cars, mainly club triumph which is absolutly brilliant for the spitfire and other technical bits and iv have got a lot of help there for my spitfire. but iv got to say you have been giving great advice and been very helpfull, thanks. i appreciate it

[na]

James it don't need to happen again for a diagnostics want I meant was I need to asked a question and then move on based on the answer you give

I can understand you not wanting to ring some of fart that worries too much about stuff that aint about driving the car but if you do this stuff you'll spend more time driving and potentially have a lot less problems to deal with - I only enjoy driving my car and don't enjoy doing any work on it but will do preventative maitanence (and of course the fault finding and repairs)

without logical diagnostic the other approach is the scatter type with possible causes and solutions every which way

I've got three I can think of now, no sorry five

Is your "donkey's dick" clear?

[jms700]

it would be good to find out the cause your right,

well, i spent a long time trying to find out what the donkeys dick was, it seemed quite mysterious.
i think i found out what it was but dont see how it would relate to the smoke?
from what i read lookinf for it it seems to be a mystery so i feel i shouldnt blurt out what it is ?

[na]

James I thought you knew as you were on the thread - I was wrong

anyway if that's blocked it will put rain/wash water oner the centre consol eventually giving the driver a wet left leg an the passenger a wet right leg

this only relevant if the steam was from the consol soundproofing and carpet matterials heating up and drying out from the engine and g/box heat and rising to the cooler windscreen where it may appear, but not actually, coming from the vents

a long wire is needed to carefully push through the dd to clear the laying debris and perhaps the use of hot water too, better still is to get under the car and to evacuate the debris from below

of course we've not done a logical diagnostics to determine if this is the cause or relevant to your problem - but keep that pathway clear is always a good idea

a few more scatter ideas are available - or logical diagnotics requiring questions and answers

[jms700]

thats what i thought it was, but it was hard to find that out. i dont see how that would cause the smoke though ? it didnt happen again this morning. it might be my imagination but the car seems to be running a wee bit rougher. and seems to be running lean but i dont see how that could effect it.

[na]

jms700 said:

thats what i thought it was, but it was hard to find that out. i dont see how that would cause the smoke though ?

it wouldn't, condensation as materials dry out

jms700 said:

it didnt happen again this morning. it might be my imagination but the car seems to be running a wee bit rougher. and seems to be running lean but i dont see how that could effect it.

might be your imagination, might not, might be related might not, if it's running lean then it might run rough

You've two issues first is the white "smoke", second rough running

For the second get your owners maual out and thoroughly check the things you would on an annual service then also inspect

HT leads - are they firmly seat both ends? wipe them over with a clean rag look at their condition, are they brittle, pinched, scuffed - if you take the leads off mark the numbers first and take the off one at a time

coil lead - as with other HT leads but you may need to 'burp' the coil end if the cover is tight (ask your mum ot grandmum about 'burping' Tupperware to get the idea)

dissy cap - leave the HT leads connected so you don't loose firing order - clean the inside with a clean rag, look at spark points for pits and scorches, make sure middle sprung bit has plenty left and shows signs of touching rotor

rotor arm (loose top rivet?) clean the blade edge with a clean pencil rubber, look for pits and scorches

make sure the low tension leads on the coil (and all wires and connections) are clean and secure

if you do this and the full (checking rather than replacing) items from the annual service you'll probably find the source of the rough running or have eliminated it

do any topping up of fluids required (dashpots, ect.)

Report back any suspect items - or replace them if it's that obvious

Do you know if your heater valve fully opens (and closes)? they go stiff, and clog up inside, if they not operated regularly

Anyway full open your heter vavle, regarless of outside temp (open all the windows and wear sandals) and drive like that for a few days whilst regularly checking for dampness on both sides of the consol (you might need to lift the carpeting and put your hand under

You're checking to see if your matrix is leaking, warm or hot water and it's doubtful that it's rain or washing water

On your black combined heater and fan box in the engine bay do you have grommets sealing the box to the two water pipes?

Are the jubilee clips tight on the hoses there?

I use 4-LIFE as an engine coolant apart from its other benefits I've always fuond it shows up even very small leaks well - note 4-LIFE may not be good in engines that are not fairly new or have be reconnditioned within a reasonable mileage

[na]

Oh I should have also put with a clean (part of) rag clean the outside of the dissy cap, taking a lead off (one at a time) it should be clean on the post where the HT lead cover goes over

check each one and the whole of the dissy cap for damage (you can't usually see it but if you can well there's one source of trouble)

to make things easier you could before removing any leads or dissy cap mark up both with the numberof the cylinder that each goes to - but if you lose the order they go in you'll have more work to figure out the correct order so be very careful - it was be worse than the problem you started with

I bet the Wildone's having a good laugh at this

James don't forget the important bit go through the annual service as a check list and inspect each part and you might not get as far as this anyway

OR if you've not done a service for over 6-9 months then do the annual service for real plus the bits I've put

[danger mouse]

Having had my heater box to pieces the other day, as far as I can see, there can only be three causes of vapour coming out of any interior heater vent.
Evapouration of any liquid (either condenstaion/rain water or, as happened to me, WD40 spayed into the heater box to ease a seized director flap) on the matrix, a ruptured matrix or electrical issue with fan motor.

If everything still works, the symptoms cleared up and the car doesn't overheat, you're probably ok.

The heating system pulls all outside air through the scuttle intake so the source shouldn't be from the engine bay I don't think.

[na]

It's not fully established what happened but I'm thinking along those lines but the smoke bit is best not ignored

good point about the heater motor but that does sit outside the heater box however I suppose some smoke or smell could go into the heater box as it's also inside the heater box

I can't remember what smoke burning plastic or electrics give off but it would be more blue to black I would have thought, the smell is quite destintive tho'

I do know that water vapour is in smoke but I'd guess the smoke may actually be water vapour but I wasn't there and James says it was smoke so things can't be counted in or out at this stage

ironic, only this week I expanded my 'usual advice to new and potential owners' bit to include coolant change and cleaning of whole system, engine block, rad and heater matrix

I'm all for doing preventive stuff when you first get the car to save on faults, problems and worries later, well at least to cut them down

IF it's matrix then we'll go through (as required) cleaning, coolant change, repair, upgrades, foams and seals and the option of 4-LIFE

the basic coolant change is in the (essential) owners Handbook, well it is in mine and I'd have thought same for late B

[jms700]

ok, thnaks for all the tips, will check them all soon as i get a chance adn report back if i find any thing interresting.

thank you for all the help.

[na]

fine

don't just forget about it thoughr or you'll learn all about sod's Law

[jms700]

have done the checks you have recomended. found that the spark points in distributor cap are burnt slightly and scored where rotar arm hits, should i replace the cap ?

the entire engine bay is very very oily so will clean every thing up.

found coolant leaking ( slowly) out of the hose to the heater unit. possible cause of smoke ? or is it to be expected ?

thanks again.

[na]

jms700 said:

have done the checks you have recommended. found that the spark points in distributor cap are burnt slightly and scored where rotor arm hits, should i replace the cap ?

what all the checks ?????

as these things are difficult to judge or describe accurately over a forum and as the the caps are not expensive to replace then I'd recommend you replace it and the rotor arm with a good quality ones from somewhere like - http://www.distributordoctor.com/red-rotor-arms.ht...

the rotor doesn't actually touch the dissy contacts it's the spark jumping from the rotor, the gap between the two is important that's why I say to clean the rotor blade with a clean pencil rubber which will not be abrasive and shorten the rotor, by your description I think you should change the rotor now too, plus if you replace the two together now you know they're done

of course you know what I gonna say - theses swaps are covered under my usual full and proper service advice

jms700 said:

the entire engine bay is very very oily so will clean every thing up.

why is it very, very oily? keep on eye on it all after cleaning and report back - how have you been checking stuff properly if everything's covered in oil??? - this could be minor or bad you need to know which

unless I’ve got it wrong(?) you'd had the car long enough to have done loads of regular checks and routine servicing, in fact I thought you'd had the car a year - you're begining to really see why I suggest a full and proper 36,000-mile service ASAP after first getting the car - I'm not just a windbag

jms700 said:

found coolant leaking ( slowly) out of the hose to the heater unit. possible cause of smoke ?

quite possibly

jms700 said:

or is it to be expected ?

do you mean should you expect small water leaks? - no, not all, tighten, or if necessary replace, the jubilee clip, check the rest of the coolant system, hoses and clips

have you also, if necesaary, topped up the coolant, with the correct coolant mixture

I was tempted to add something there but, I wont

I thought you used this car as a daily and also have a '71 Spitfire, with both you need to follow the owners Handbook of regular checks, and full and proper servicing, maintenance and repair, especially if you've not owned the car for long, as some owners don't do the necessary full and proper servicing and maintenance the cars require - then problems and reliability issues arise and the careless owners blame the car not themselves and the myth of these cars being unreliable grows

jms700 said:

thanks again.

no problem but you must follow all the advice not just the convenient parts - are you sure you've read my other posts, I'm not into soothing words like mummies and daddies give

I think you need to get your oil issue sorted and stop the coolant leak to heater then you need to go through what you can (which will be most of it) of a full and proper 36,000 mile service and then you’ll find the car runs much better – or like it should

You’ll have to have the owners Handbook as you have a ’81 B (and ’71 spit) whereas I own a’73 Midget there will be minor differences

oh, and good news - you'll need to do all this for the Spit too - better news once you get things sorted full and proper serving, maintenance and repairs become easier and less and the cars remain in good order, a pleasure to drive and very reliable

[jms700]

have the replacement distributor cap and rotor all ready so will try that, have been cleaning up the oil while going round and its much better now so will see if it gets oily again . since i got the car not had too much time to work on it over the winter. but much more time now so getting stuck in.

will be doing the 36000 mile services in three weaks time when iv got a free space in the garage to use and some more free time.

iv just gone through most of the owners hand book which is very usefull as you sugested.

the car is a daily driver so i do do the usual checks that i did on the spitfire. its definetly true about them being reliable as long as you keep on top of things.

thanks again for all the help.

[na]

James you do not have to justify yourself to me, it's not my car it's yours

James as you'd been doing your weekly checks you'll know how long the very very oily engine bay has been this way . . .

no let me start again - was today the first time you noticed all this oil or have you noticed before

the engine is one of the less important components are far as safety goes as if the engine don't run then the car is safer than when it's moving

the brake resevior should be your first thing you look at everytime you lift the bonnet

but

engine oil is like blood to the body, a small nose bleed every now and again isn't usually too serious in itself but a sustained loss of blood that's isn't stopped and prevented and evetually it gets drastic - same for the engine, bye, bye engine

now yours could be from a minor cause or mistake and not even serious let alone fatal but you must check - what's your oil pressure reading normally when fully warmed up, as per Handbook, at idle and moving at X,XXX rpm ?