MG B handling improvements
Discussion
Inherited my dad's MG B at the end of the year and quickly realised that it's nowhere near as good to drive as my old one (replaced by the Alfa in 2007).
It has absolutely bog standard 1979 suspension and rolls like a pig and flicks the tail out at stupidly slow speeds in the damp. I reckon I've got about a grand or so to improve it, so I'm thinking:
Stiff at the front, supple at the rear:
MG B hive lowering kit
Spax front and rear
3/4 or 7/8" anti roll bar front with poly bushes
Parabolics on the rear with fast road bushes (worked well on my old one)
Decent tyres all round (currently on ceats!) thinking yokohamas.
My old one had lower springs at the front with uprated lever arms and a 7/8" antiroll bar and was rock hard. The back was ok - konis and normal springs originally, swapped to parabolics when they wore. It also ran on continentals, which were great about 90% of the time and only frightened me once when it aquaplaned.
Anybody got any more thoughts / experiences / advice? Budget is about a grand, so I can't replace the whole front crossmember and go fully IRS at the back.
It has absolutely bog standard 1979 suspension and rolls like a pig and flicks the tail out at stupidly slow speeds in the damp. I reckon I've got about a grand or so to improve it, so I'm thinking:
Stiff at the front, supple at the rear:
MG B hive lowering kit
Spax front and rear
3/4 or 7/8" anti roll bar front with poly bushes
Parabolics on the rear with fast road bushes (worked well on my old one)
Decent tyres all round (currently on ceats!) thinking yokohamas.
My old one had lower springs at the front with uprated lever arms and a 7/8" antiroll bar and was rock hard. The back was ok - konis and normal springs originally, swapped to parabolics when they wore. It also ran on continentals, which were great about 90% of the time and only frightened me once when it aquaplaned.
Anybody got any more thoughts / experiences / advice? Budget is about a grand, so I can't replace the whole front crossmember and go fully IRS at the back.
alfa pint said:
Inherited my dad's MG B at the end of the year and quickly realised that it's nowhere near as good to drive as my old one (replaced by the Alfa in 2007).
It has absolutely bog standard 1979 suspension and rolls like a pig and flicks the tail out at stupidly slow speeds in the damp. I reckon I've got about a grand or so to improve it, so I'm thinking:
Stiff at the front, supple at the rear:
MG B hive lowering kit
Spax front and rear
3/4 or 7/8" anti roll bar front with poly bushes
Parabolics on the rear with fast road bushes (worked well on my old one)
Decent tyres all round (currently on ceats!) thinking yokohamas.
My old one had lower springs at the front with uprated lever arms and a 7/8" antiroll bar and was rock hard. The back was ok - konis and normal springs originally, swapped to parabolics when they wore. It also ran on continentals, which were great about 90% of the time and only frightened me once when it aquaplaned.
Anybody got any more thoughts / experiences / advice? Budget is about a grand, so I can't replace the whole front crossmember and go fully IRS at the back.
Alfa.It has absolutely bog standard 1979 suspension and rolls like a pig and flicks the tail out at stupidly slow speeds in the damp. I reckon I've got about a grand or so to improve it, so I'm thinking:
Stiff at the front, supple at the rear:
MG B hive lowering kit
Spax front and rear
3/4 or 7/8" anti roll bar front with poly bushes
Parabolics on the rear with fast road bushes (worked well on my old one)
Decent tyres all round (currently on ceats!) thinking yokohamas.
My old one had lower springs at the front with uprated lever arms and a 7/8" antiroll bar and was rock hard. The back was ok - konis and normal springs originally, swapped to parabolics when they wore. It also ran on continentals, which were great about 90% of the time and only frightened me once when it aquaplaned.
Anybody got any more thoughts / experiences / advice? Budget is about a grand, so I can't replace the whole front crossmember and go fully IRS at the back.
Had a few MG's and messed about with the suspension on them all. This is the best combination I have found (CB BGT).
Lower and stiffer front and rear springs. (£36 a pair at the front, £132 rears and another £40 worth of bump stops).
Stiff bushes on the front and standard on the rear to keep it stiff at the front and supple at the back. (around £60 worth I think),(Moss recommend Nylatron bushes on the rear spring, they made the ride harsh and noisy, so I went back to rubber bushes)
Negative camber wishbones.(£46)
Lever arm dampers kept, but uprated the valves and oil in the front. The standard dampers are actually ok when in good nick and the factory teams all kept them as do the Yank MG racers now. (£15 quid each for the competition valves)
7/8ths Anti Roll bar on front.(£75)
This reduced body roll and keeps it level and responsive in the corners.
The tyres let it down badly once the mods were done so:
I'm on wires so gucci tyres are hard to fit, so Dunlop SP30's (185 / 70s) were fitted later (£330) these have proved to be a good compliment to the mods listed above and I am very happy with the improvements.
From checking the invoices this is £830 worth of kit if you fit it yourself.
I have some spare poly bushes if you want them.
Mac, cheers for that.
Was contemplating keeping the lever arm dampers as I've heard a few people do that rather than go gas shocks.
My original B had negative camber wishbones on it, but it was practically impossible to park the steering was so heavy (and I'm no weakling!) and I was going through a set of front tyres every 4k miles due to excessive inside wear. Replaced them with normal wishbones - steering was more normal and the tyre wear transformed. Didn't notice a huge difference in the handling either.
Hoping the changes to the front will remove the bad shudder that appears at 70mph. It looks as though the bushes are shot. Kingpins seem ok.
Was contemplating keeping the lever arm dampers as I've heard a few people do that rather than go gas shocks.
My original B had negative camber wishbones on it, but it was practically impossible to park the steering was so heavy (and I'm no weakling!) and I was going through a set of front tyres every 4k miles due to excessive inside wear. Replaced them with normal wishbones - steering was more normal and the tyre wear transformed. Didn't notice a huge difference in the handling either.
Hoping the changes to the front will remove the bad shudder that appears at 70mph. It looks as though the bushes are shot. Kingpins seem ok.
Alfa I can recommend Super-Flex Polyurethane bushes from fitting to Midget they were better than and replaced the yellow urethane ones that were put on a year or so before
Also I'll mention tyres, if they're older than 5-6 years no matter how much tread they're best changed and of course correct tyre pressues
Also I'll mention tyres, if they're older than 5-6 years no matter how much tread they're best changed and of course correct tyre pressues
Podie said:
Cheers for that, but way too expensive. Although the castor correction looks very interesting and certainly cheap enough to consider trying.I fitted gas shocks front and rear (and then found out subsequently that upgraded vavles and oil is the way most seem to prefer). I had the car weighed at each wheel and it was significantly heavier on the drivers side, which someone suggested was old springs. I was also suffering with quite a bit of roll on the front and a lively back in the wet.
I've just replaced the anti-roll bar with a 3/4 one and new springs front and rear and superflex bushes all round, with the front shocks medium hard and the rear soft and it's transformed it. I haven't tried pushing it too much yet as want to give it a nut and bolt check now it's all bedded in, but first impressions of standard springs with the upgraded anti-roll bar and poly bushes are all good and the car handles much better because of it. Need to get it weighed again to check the weight distribution again now.
I've just replaced the anti-roll bar with a 3/4 one and new springs front and rear and superflex bushes all round, with the front shocks medium hard and the rear soft and it's transformed it. I haven't tried pushing it too much yet as want to give it a nut and bolt check now it's all bedded in, but first impressions of standard springs with the upgraded anti-roll bar and poly bushes are all good and the car handles much better because of it. Need to get it weighed again to check the weight distribution again now.
I'd second what mactheknife says regarding lever arm dampers, in good condition they're hard to beat without spending alot of money on suspension mods. I've had spax on a previous B (rear only) and on my current BGT (front and rear). Aside from any handling effects, after a while (in my experience and others) the spax 'rattle' like buggery at low speeds on bumpy roads and it can drive you mad... stiff at the front soft at the rear is good as long as you get the balance right for your style of driving...
Edited by Chilliman on Tuesday 8th March 11:15
alfa pint said:
Cheers - the tyres are relatively new (the car used to do 70 miles a day), they're just a cheap and nasty compound (CEAT) and offer no grip at all in the wet / damp. I doubt if they're as old as 3 yo, and have shed loads of tread left on the rears.
no matter what tread is left on your present sounds like better quality replacements will offer (at reasonable prices for a B) good improvementsI've replaced tyres with loads of tread for better ones a few times and never regeed it
If you have negative camber wishbones fitted you need to have about 1/8th inch of Toe In to get the handling right. This sorts the tyre wear and heavy steering out.
They do improve the turn in on sharp corners.
If you fit lower springs you can go very low. I could barely get a jack under the car once it was done. I have changed the tyres since and the ground clearance is much improved. Speed bumps can now be climbed over without fear of damage.
Once you get the combination of springs, bushes, dampers and tyres right the car is transformed.
Getting the wire wheels properly balanced has proved worth the effort. Wires don't fit on the balancing machine without special cones to hold them. PM me if you need to get cones.
I now have no speed wobbles shakes or vibrations.
They do improve the turn in on sharp corners.
If you fit lower springs you can go very low. I could barely get a jack under the car once it was done. I have changed the tyres since and the ground clearance is much improved. Speed bumps can now be climbed over without fear of damage.
Once you get the combination of springs, bushes, dampers and tyres right the car is transformed.
Getting the wire wheels properly balanced has proved worth the effort. Wires don't fit on the balancing machine without special cones to hold them. PM me if you need to get cones.
I now have no speed wobbles shakes or vibrations.
Well, phase 1 complete!
Lowering kit from the B hive, so lowering blocks at the back and lower, stiffer springs at the front. 3/4" front antiroll bar (remembered that my old 7/8" one was a little too hard core), front suspension all polybushed. Yokohama A drive tyres all round.
The car is transformed - the difference in ride height, even just the 1 3/4" is obvious and the car now corners much much flatter. There's a strong tendency to understeer, although the turn in as throttle is added at the apex is also much improved and the whole thing just feels nearly right.
The only issue I have now is that the front n/s caliper is now binding! Grrrr!
I'll have a much better idea of how well the money's been spent when I next take it out in the damp /rain!
Next step - phase 2 will involve stiffening up the dampers. The ride at the moment is surprisingly good, but a little too soft for fast road purposes. Got an MOT advisory on a leaking rear damper, so will replace these next month with uprated lever arms.
Phase 3 will just be to replace the kingpins and rear springs when they next need done.
Lowering kit from the B hive, so lowering blocks at the back and lower, stiffer springs at the front. 3/4" front antiroll bar (remembered that my old 7/8" one was a little too hard core), front suspension all polybushed. Yokohama A drive tyres all round.
The car is transformed - the difference in ride height, even just the 1 3/4" is obvious and the car now corners much much flatter. There's a strong tendency to understeer, although the turn in as throttle is added at the apex is also much improved and the whole thing just feels nearly right.
The only issue I have now is that the front n/s caliper is now binding! Grrrr!
I'll have a much better idea of how well the money's been spent when I next take it out in the damp /rain!
Next step - phase 2 will involve stiffening up the dampers. The ride at the moment is surprisingly good, but a little too soft for fast road purposes. Got an MOT advisory on a leaking rear damper, so will replace these next month with uprated lever arms.
Phase 3 will just be to replace the kingpins and rear springs when they next need done.
Good news
I've got A-Drives (132 on a Midget mind so different size and car ) find them fine in the wet
Careful with making the back too stiff or hard at the back (and the front) modern cars may be built for hard suspension but not the old British stuff
What's good on a track doesn't usually transfer well to road use
I've got A-Drives (132 on a Midget mind so different size and car ) find them fine in the wet
Careful with making the back too stiff or hard at the back (and the front) modern cars may be built for hard suspension but not the old British stuff
What's good on a track doesn't usually transfer well to road use
When i get round to doing my suspension i will be following this fellas advice. http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgrades4mgs/Drive...
lucebayjack said:
When i get round to doing my suspension i will be following this fellas advice. http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgrades4mgs/Drive...
(As above) I'm with him on the Super-Flex bushesHe makes a good point about - 'It is important to remember that what you are trying to achieve is a suspension “system” – i.e. all components are matched and work together. If one part is mismatched it can ruin the set up entirely.'
But with 'Also the B works best on the theory of “hard front, soft rear” and that is how you should set the car up for best handling; which is what the factory racing teams did, way back when.' - remember that 60's hard isn't 2011 hard
A slightly thicker ARB at the front can possibly be a very cost effective improvement on some cars (you may need to also replace your clips and bushes too)
Some Bs befit from a rear ATB
Good stuff there but he does say start with the standard suspension in good condtion before moving on - that applies to the rest of the car too - many people go too far with their classics and loose the overall balance and original fun of the car - Bs are no fun when they're overdone
ETA: can possibly be
Edited by na on Thursday 21st April 01:19
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