Won an MG ZS 120 w/HGF on fleabay, blind. Am I insane?
Discussion
Oh yeah and has been off the road for two years! It's a 2003 green 'Atomix' model (something to do with Atomic Kitten??) with low mileage due to the fact it's sat around for 2 years since the head gasket went. I think I paid good money for it, so not too worried yet.
I'll be doing the work myself though so that should keep costs to a minimum. I've done a few head off jobs, and an engine strip before although nothing on a K-series. In fact every time I touch a K-series, I usually go off and rant about how badly designed it is, while nursing bleeding knuckles! So I'm going to be going in calmly and taking my time with this one!
I'll be getting the parts shortly after getting the car. I'm thinking cambelt kit (with tensioners etc), water pump, MLS head gasket, new bolts etc. Whats this about a shim though, something to adjust compression with skimmed heads? And I've heard you're not supposed to skim the heads after HGF as the MLS gasket will compensate. Surely a composite gasket would only do that? Any other parts worth grabbing? I seem to remember early problems with a coolant rail blocking up with internal rust/silt from the cooling system.
My logic is basically that if we were going to buy one, I would always worry is the H/G going to fail? Has it been looked after? If it's been changed, was it done correctly etc? So the only way I could ever fully trust the car is to know I did it myself and that all the little pointers and tips that enthusiasts of the marque suggest are followed. It's such an efficient engine, it's a shame to have it let down with the cooling issue.
In this respect, I decided it was better to buy a broken one cheap, than to splash out normal money only to find it fails 2 months later and I have to spend that money putting it right. Make sense? Who knows!
Basically any advice/knowledge/wisdom would be appreciated! Cheers!
I'll be doing the work myself though so that should keep costs to a minimum. I've done a few head off jobs, and an engine strip before although nothing on a K-series. In fact every time I touch a K-series, I usually go off and rant about how badly designed it is, while nursing bleeding knuckles! So I'm going to be going in calmly and taking my time with this one!
I'll be getting the parts shortly after getting the car. I'm thinking cambelt kit (with tensioners etc), water pump, MLS head gasket, new bolts etc. Whats this about a shim though, something to adjust compression with skimmed heads? And I've heard you're not supposed to skim the heads after HGF as the MLS gasket will compensate. Surely a composite gasket would only do that? Any other parts worth grabbing? I seem to remember early problems with a coolant rail blocking up with internal rust/silt from the cooling system.
My logic is basically that if we were going to buy one, I would always worry is the H/G going to fail? Has it been looked after? If it's been changed, was it done correctly etc? So the only way I could ever fully trust the car is to know I did it myself and that all the little pointers and tips that enthusiasts of the marque suggest are followed. It's such an efficient engine, it's a shame to have it let down with the cooling issue.
In this respect, I decided it was better to buy a broken one cheap, than to splash out normal money only to find it fails 2 months later and I have to spend that money putting it right. Make sense? Who knows!
Basically any advice/knowledge/wisdom would be appreciated! Cheers!
Edited by Kitchski on Sunday 15th August 00:35
Edited by Kitchski on Sunday 15th August 00:38
From memory of my MGF head gasket (K Series 1.8, non-VVC), you have listed all the components needing to be replaced, although I presume the oil rail that the head bolts go into is included in your "etc", and I would add in the thermostat and pressure cap too.
Unless you know how bad the gasket failure was, whether it was oil into water, water into oil or both, and how long it was driven for...., then assume that you need to do a really good flush out of both the coolant system and the oil passages. Also check as you remove the water pump that the blades/paddles are complete - they may have disintegrated and the bits lodged themselves around the coolant passageways; it is v.difficult if it has to know whether the bits are in there or not, and they could/would impede full coolant flow!
As to head skimming, you need to have it checked and, if warped, skimmed within limits - a shim is only going to be any use if the head is beyond normal skimming limits; the K series heads don't tolerate much skimming, as the valve/piston clearance is v.close to start with. The uprated gasket kits are supposed to compensate for the poor design of the original - not for a warped head.
Finally, not sure how easy it is to bleed the coolant system on the ZS, but it can be a sod on the MGF, so make sure you know if there any quirks to that for the ZS. At least doing the job on a ZS you won't have all the hassle of doing it on a mid-engined F!
MG Mark
Unless you know how bad the gasket failure was, whether it was oil into water, water into oil or both, and how long it was driven for...., then assume that you need to do a really good flush out of both the coolant system and the oil passages. Also check as you remove the water pump that the blades/paddles are complete - they may have disintegrated and the bits lodged themselves around the coolant passageways; it is v.difficult if it has to know whether the bits are in there or not, and they could/would impede full coolant flow!
As to head skimming, you need to have it checked and, if warped, skimmed within limits - a shim is only going to be any use if the head is beyond normal skimming limits; the K series heads don't tolerate much skimming, as the valve/piston clearance is v.close to start with. The uprated gasket kits are supposed to compensate for the poor design of the original - not for a warped head.
Finally, not sure how easy it is to bleed the coolant system on the ZS, but it can be a sod on the MGF, so make sure you know if there any quirks to that for the ZS. At least doing the job on a ZS you won't have all the hassle of doing it on a mid-engined F!
MG Mark
Edited by MG Mark on Sunday 15th August 21:17
An important check, and one missed by a lot of repairs (both amateur and pro) is to accurately measure the liner heights. This will determine which is the most suitable gasket to use, MLS or Payen. The MLS gasket isn’t suitable for all applications, particularly were the liner heights are out of tolerance or uneven.
Insane ... far from it!
Picking one of these up at a low price as you have done is an excellent way to get a half decent car for little money. Well done.
I have changed two cylinder head gaskets on MG-Rover K16 engines. I find them one of the easiest 16 valve double overhead camshaft engines to work on.
One of those was a so called 'repeat' failure on a friend's car when the only real failure was by those who did the repair job. Someone had failed to replace the dowel which locates the cylinder head to the block. That is not the dowel's only purpose ~ anyone know its other more important main task ?...
The other was on my own 1.8 MGZS used daily by my wife. Having seen how easy the job was when working on my friend's car, and keeping in mind my good lady would maybe not spot the early signs of a possible damaged gasket in time on a long journey, I pre-empted any possible failure and at the same time fitted the MLS gasket. I used that MLS gasket on both jobs having checked liner heights were as they should be.
That was about two years ago and so far, both cars have run without fault. Coolant level perfectly stable ....
.
Picking one of these up at a low price as you have done is an excellent way to get a half decent car for little money. Well done.
I have changed two cylinder head gaskets on MG-Rover K16 engines. I find them one of the easiest 16 valve double overhead camshaft engines to work on.
One of those was a so called 'repeat' failure on a friend's car when the only real failure was by those who did the repair job. Someone had failed to replace the dowel which locates the cylinder head to the block. That is not the dowel's only purpose ~ anyone know its other more important main task ?...
The other was on my own 1.8 MGZS used daily by my wife. Having seen how easy the job was when working on my friend's car, and keeping in mind my good lady would maybe not spot the early signs of a possible damaged gasket in time on a long journey, I pre-empted any possible failure and at the same time fitted the MLS gasket. I used that MLS gasket on both jobs having checked liner heights were as they should be.
That was about two years ago and so far, both cars have run without fault. Coolant level perfectly stable ....
.
Edited by MGJohn on Wednesday 29th September 14:08
So far, so good! Needs a couple of bushes but the engine is sweet as a nut. Had a few hot weather tests now and it doesn't miss a beat. Definately glad I upgraded it at the same time!
I even treated it to a set of 17in straights! Just a shame I think it's actually gettting to be a bit too small for us as a family
I even treated it to a set of 17in straights! Just a shame I think it's actually gettting to be a bit too small for us as a family
Our MGZS120+ bought new eight years ago has not missed a beat except for routine renewals. Mainly driven by my better half, she really likes the car and she's the least enthusiastic car driver I know...
I do not think I'm insane but, I like a challenge. Some would say I'm a glutton for punishment.
Just bought a Rover 45 Connoisseur with the "They all do that" cylinder head damage issues. The car has only 58,000 on its clocks and has all the usual connoisseur refinements... heated seats and even headlamp washers..
Here's the problem ....not nice.
I've only had it three days and made a first serious start today [ Thursday ] at 3 pm. Made some progress but, most of the time will be spent clearing all this muck from the cooling system.
The actual work fitting the new MLS ( Multi Layer Steel ) Cylinder Head Gasket is a doddle compared to cleansing that oil-coolant mix from the system.
This is the car. Quite a lot of car for little outlay.
It has the same engine as my MGZS ... I've put up a "Work in progress" thread over on MG-Rover.org should you wish to have a look :~
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=415574
I enjoy breathing new life into old cars more than taking delivery of a new one which over the years, I've done several times, both private and company cars.
..
I do not think I'm insane but, I like a challenge. Some would say I'm a glutton for punishment.
Just bought a Rover 45 Connoisseur with the "They all do that" cylinder head damage issues. The car has only 58,000 on its clocks and has all the usual connoisseur refinements... heated seats and even headlamp washers..
Here's the problem ....not nice.
I've only had it three days and made a first serious start today [ Thursday ] at 3 pm. Made some progress but, most of the time will be spent clearing all this muck from the cooling system.
The actual work fitting the new MLS ( Multi Layer Steel ) Cylinder Head Gasket is a doddle compared to cleansing that oil-coolant mix from the system.
This is the car. Quite a lot of car for little outlay.
It has the same engine as my MGZS ... I've put up a "Work in progress" thread over on MG-Rover.org should you wish to have a look :~
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=415574
I enjoy breathing new life into old cars more than taking delivery of a new one which over the years, I've done several times, both private and company cars.
..
Yeah I actually enjoyed the overhaul too. Quite satisfying doing everything thoroughly and leaving nothing untouched. I had the head refaced, I changed the oil rail, the t/stat (drilled it too), rad cap, MLS gasket set from X-parts. It's been spot on ever since.
Mind you it was no where near as bad as yours! I only had gunk between 2 and 3 under the gasket.
Mind you it was no where near as bad as yours! I only had gunk between 2 and 3 under the gasket.
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