Hugely modified MG Midget
Discussion
Does anyone out there know what a true mg atlantis looks like? I've never seen one, not even at the Spridget 50. No one I spoke to really had an idea!
About 3 years ago I bought a midget from this guy in Kent and have been restoring it ever since. It has a 1600 crossflow running twin 40s. It was quite rotten once undressed and full of "make it do bodgery" Needless to say this has been rectified and will be transformed eventually( Full swing this summer)
Are there any real distinguishing body/brightwork features that set it apart from the standard car other than badging? Cheers Ashmill
About 3 years ago I bought a midget from this guy in Kent and have been restoring it ever since. It has a 1600 crossflow running twin 40s. It was quite rotten once undressed and full of "make it do bodgery" Needless to say this has been rectified and will be transformed eventually( Full swing this summer)
Are there any real distinguishing body/brightwork features that set it apart from the standard car other than badging? Cheers Ashmill
By an amazing co-incidence I found the period review in a copy of Hot Car Magazine from July 1971. I got it yesterday while wandering around an antiques warehouse and found this post using Google! I hope my scans work, I've just joined the forum.
The above posters were right, it did look identical to a normal Midget.
I'm interested because I own a much modified Frogeye Sprite that has had the complete running gear from a Mk1 GT Cortina installed in it ie. 1500 pre-crossflow engine (twin 40s, cam, headers etc.), brakes, gearbox, prop, diff & axles. Also some bodywork mods. I gave it a light restoration 3 years ago (it was slightly crash damaged). It goes like hell - considerably quicker than even the numbers they quote in the scanned road test attched! The quality of the conversion (that was done in the early 70's according to DVLA records) leads me to think it must have been done professionally, maybe by them? I can post pics if anyone's interested.
Edited by cdodgyd on Tuesday 4th May 16:57
Mine can be frightening at times - with a Zetec it must've been insane!
I seem to be having trouble with the scanned image in the last post I did. I just see a red cross. If I click on properties it shows the weblink and that works if its typed in manually - does it work for anyone else?
Assuming it does, here are the pics of my car. Its a strange hybrid - the back end is all original steel, except the flared arches. The front was originally fitted with a Lenham fibreglass bonnet which was smashed. I swapped it for a Frogeye one. The doors, windscreen and area behind the seats are Sprite Mk3 but its registered 1959. All in all a strange hybrid but I've never been into originality, just enjoyment/practicality of classics. I also own a diesel self-converted W108 Merc which can be seen in the background of one pic - that's my daily driver!
I seem to be having trouble with the scanned image in the last post I did. I just see a red cross. If I click on properties it shows the weblink and that works if its typed in manually - does it work for anyone else?
Assuming it does, here are the pics of my car. Its a strange hybrid - the back end is all original steel, except the flared arches. The front was originally fitted with a Lenham fibreglass bonnet which was smashed. I swapped it for a Frogeye one. The doors, windscreen and area behind the seats are Sprite Mk3 but its registered 1959. All in all a strange hybrid but I've never been into originality, just enjoyment/practicality of classics. I also own a diesel self-converted W108 Merc which can be seen in the background of one pic - that's my daily driver!
Edited by cdodgyd on Monday 21st January 17:13
cdodgyd said:
I seem to be having trouble with the scanned image in the last post I did. I just see a red cross. If I click on properties it shows the weblink and that works if its typed in manually - does it work for anyone else?
No, sorry, you need to have a space between the photos, i.e. [img] a photo[/img] characterspace [img] another photo[/img] or put them on seperate lines i.e. –[img]a photo[/img]
[img]another photo[/img]
Edited by SB - Nigel on Tuesday 4th May 01:51
perdu said:
nice car SB-Nigel
only the screen, scuttle and doors give the game away
I like the radically modded early rad, altogether a very nice sleeper
bet it flies
Very nice but unfortunately not mineonly the screen, scuttle and doors give the game away
I like the radically modded early rad, altogether a very nice sleeper
bet it flies
Just showing cdodgyd how to host the photos
I'm confused by the two levers on the transmission area tho'
SB - Nigel said:
perdu said:
nice car SB-Nigel
only the screen, scuttle and doors give the game away
I like the radically modded early rad, altogether a very nice sleeper
bet it flies
Very nice but unfortunately not mineonly the screen, scuttle and doors give the game away
I like the radically modded early rad, altogether a very nice sleeper
bet it flies
Just showing cdodgyd how to host the photos
I'm confused by the two levers on the transmission area tho'
Auto obviously (?)(?) who knows, where did you find the pics
some kind of sport drive purrups
Still 'tis nice, I wonder if its a Tifosi Rana?
Thanks to SB-Nigel for sorting out the technical problem - I was at a loss!
Thanks also to Perdu for the comments.
I have no doubt this conversion was done professionally. I've found extremely well executed subtle mods to the chassis rails around the engine/gearbox, a beautifully made custom exhaust header (hard to see in the pics) and things such as the rad as you note. The car has had me guessing since I purchased it 3 years ago, and continues to do so. As I mentioned, its registered as a 1959? The rear is steel, not glassfibre etc. Wierd!
Well spotted on the twin gear levers! I did that.
The car was fitted with a period short shifter kit for the Cortina Mk1 gearbox, that also moved the lever back about a foot. Necessary for this conversion, otherwise the lever would be under the dash!
The trouble was, the throw was ridiculously short ie. a few mm between each gear (it is manual, not auto as people often think). It still has a narrow gate but is now far easier to use than when I got it. Only after much head-scratching and modifications to this shifter kit I might add - took me about 3 months to solve on and off!
The narrowness of the gate meant that I often had major grating when going into 2nd from 1st or 3rd, as reverse was practically in the same postion as 2nd! What I did was to fabricate a separate lever, permanently wedged into the reverse slot. That way it is impossible to select reverse by mistake.
Ideally, I'd like to fit a type 9 Ford 5 speed. This would give much needed reduced revs on motorways etc. At the mo' it'll hit the red line in very short order in top if you floor it, despite running 15" wheels.
Diff is Ford 3.9 ratio. I could swap it for a 3.54 which was fitted to some Escorts but I'd rather do the conversion.
My best bet is following the procedure that Ford Anglia owners often do, although its obviously made more difficult by the fact its all in a Sprite body! The job would be a big one I'm sure, which has put me off up to now. Maybe next winter?!
Thanks also to Perdu for the comments.
I have no doubt this conversion was done professionally. I've found extremely well executed subtle mods to the chassis rails around the engine/gearbox, a beautifully made custom exhaust header (hard to see in the pics) and things such as the rad as you note. The car has had me guessing since I purchased it 3 years ago, and continues to do so. As I mentioned, its registered as a 1959? The rear is steel, not glassfibre etc. Wierd!
Well spotted on the twin gear levers! I did that.
The car was fitted with a period short shifter kit for the Cortina Mk1 gearbox, that also moved the lever back about a foot. Necessary for this conversion, otherwise the lever would be under the dash!
The trouble was, the throw was ridiculously short ie. a few mm between each gear (it is manual, not auto as people often think). It still has a narrow gate but is now far easier to use than when I got it. Only after much head-scratching and modifications to this shifter kit I might add - took me about 3 months to solve on and off!
The narrowness of the gate meant that I often had major grating when going into 2nd from 1st or 3rd, as reverse was practically in the same postion as 2nd! What I did was to fabricate a separate lever, permanently wedged into the reverse slot. That way it is impossible to select reverse by mistake.
Ideally, I'd like to fit a type 9 Ford 5 speed. This would give much needed reduced revs on motorways etc. At the mo' it'll hit the red line in very short order in top if you floor it, despite running 15" wheels.
Diff is Ford 3.9 ratio. I could swap it for a 3.54 which was fitted to some Escorts but I'd rather do the conversion.
My best bet is following the procedure that Ford Anglia owners often do, although its obviously made more difficult by the fact its all in a Sprite body! The job would be a big one I'm sure, which has put me off up to now. Maybe next winter?!
Thanks for all the info on the Atlantis. The block in mine is very early 68. The conversion was done very shabbily in my mind and would not have been professional. I have since learned that the original may have had a split front bumper but havent seen photographic evidence of this.
I would like to see a clear engine bay layout of an original atlantis. It has proved to be quite a challenge to marry up and plumb in all the ancillaries. Anyhow, it's all good fun!!
I would like to see a clear engine bay layout of an original atlantis. It has proved to be quite a challenge to marry up and plumb in all the ancillaries. Anyhow, it's all good fun!!
cdodgyd said:
Thanks to SB-Nigel for sorting out the technical problem - I was at a loss!
Thanks also to Perdu for the comments.
I have no doubt this conversion was done professionally. I've found extremely well executed subtle mods to the chassis rails around the engine/gearbox, a beautifully made custom exhaust header (hard to see in the pics) and things such as the rad as you note. The car has had me guessing since I purchased it 3 years ago, and continues to do so. As I mentioned, its registered as a 1959? The rear is steel, not glassfibre etc. Wierd!
Well spotted on the twin gear levers! I did that.
The car was fitted with a period short shifter kit for the Cortina Mk1 gearbox, that also moved the lever back about a foot. Necessary for this conversion, otherwise the lever would be under the dash!
The trouble was, the throw was ridiculously short ie. a few mm between each gear (it is manual, not auto as people often think). It still has a narrow gate but is now far easier to use than when I got it. Only after much head-scratching and modifications to this shifter kit I might add - took me about 3 months to solve on and off!
The narrowness of the gate meant that I often had major grating when going into 2nd from 1st or 3rd, as reverse was practically in the same postion as 2nd! What I did was to fabricate a separate lever, permanently wedged into the reverse slot. That way it is impossible to select reverse by mistake.
Ideally, I'd like to fit a type 9 Ford 5 speed. This would give much needed reduced revs on motorways etc. At the mo' it'll hit the red line in very short order in top if you floor it, despite running 15" wheels.
Diff is Ford 3.9 ratio. I could swap it for a 3.54 which was fitted to some Escorts but I'd rather do the conversion.
My best bet is following the procedure that Ford Anglia owners often do, although its obviously made more difficult by the fact its all in a Sprite body! The job would be a big one I'm sure, which has put me off up to now. Maybe next winter?!
Whilst I love my type 9 you have to be aware that you need to cut out the central area of the crossmember to enable it to fitThanks also to Perdu for the comments.
I have no doubt this conversion was done professionally. I've found extremely well executed subtle mods to the chassis rails around the engine/gearbox, a beautifully made custom exhaust header (hard to see in the pics) and things such as the rad as you note. The car has had me guessing since I purchased it 3 years ago, and continues to do so. As I mentioned, its registered as a 1959? The rear is steel, not glassfibre etc. Wierd!
Well spotted on the twin gear levers! I did that.
The car was fitted with a period short shifter kit for the Cortina Mk1 gearbox, that also moved the lever back about a foot. Necessary for this conversion, otherwise the lever would be under the dash!
The trouble was, the throw was ridiculously short ie. a few mm between each gear (it is manual, not auto as people often think). It still has a narrow gate but is now far easier to use than when I got it. Only after much head-scratching and modifications to this shifter kit I might add - took me about 3 months to solve on and off!
The narrowness of the gate meant that I often had major grating when going into 2nd from 1st or 3rd, as reverse was practically in the same postion as 2nd! What I did was to fabricate a separate lever, permanently wedged into the reverse slot. That way it is impossible to select reverse by mistake.
Ideally, I'd like to fit a type 9 Ford 5 speed. This would give much needed reduced revs on motorways etc. At the mo' it'll hit the red line in very short order in top if you floor it, despite running 15" wheels.
Diff is Ford 3.9 ratio. I could swap it for a 3.54 which was fitted to some Escorts but I'd rather do the conversion.
My best bet is following the procedure that Ford Anglia owners often do, although its obviously made more difficult by the fact its all in a Sprite body! The job would be a big one I'm sure, which has put me off up to now. Maybe next winter?!
If the often suggested purge takes place on cutting monocoques by DVLA and MOTists you would lose your numberplate and any tax free benefits
Until/unless I hear differently I will be very worritted before taking mine for her MOT
(living in fear near Brum...)
That settles it then. I won't be doing the 5 speed conversion!
Apart from the substantial cost and major work, what you say would be unacceptable to me.
I'll have to decide if better cruising for the occasional motorway trip is worth sacrificing a drop in acceleration in all gears with the lower diff ratio.
Apart from the substantial cost and major work, what you say would be unacceptable to me.
I'll have to decide if better cruising for the occasional motorway trip is worth sacrificing a drop in acceleration in all gears with the lower diff ratio.
cdodgyd said:
That settles it then. I won't be doing the 5 speed conversion!
It's not as bad as it sounds I've got itI don't know about DVLA stuff and Purdu could well be right but I've heard many scare stories about legislation changes for many years and like most have ignored them to no loss
A hell of a lot of classics have been altered and would not match the build requirements
Let's face it in the strict sense yours (and mine with suspension and gearbox change and othe updates) are now really custom cars to some extent
I'll post a photo of my (now too) short quickshift gearlever out of type9 box tomorrow
EFS
Edited by SB - Nigel on Sunday 9th May 01:28
Absolutely - I've always regarded my car as an old school hot rod!
I looked up that article about the DVLA; it was in Classic Car Weekly I think. Hard to know what to make of it.
That got me thinking, so I took the best photo I could of the area in question this morning. I'm not the greatest expert on Sprites, but I suspect its been modified anyway? I attach a photo.
That brings into question the proposed DVLA ruling. Would my car be exempt because the existing conversion was done 40 years ago?
I looked up that article about the DVLA; it was in Classic Car Weekly I think. Hard to know what to make of it.
That got me thinking, so I took the best photo I could of the area in question this morning. I'm not the greatest expert on Sprites, but I suspect its been modified anyway? I attach a photo.
That brings into question the proposed DVLA ruling. Would my car be exempt because the existing conversion was done 40 years ago?
I think it is fair to say that none of us has a clue 
The crossmember needs to be cut out and a little floor behind it within the tunnel cut back, to enable the type 9 to fit inside the tunnel
I'd love to find a way of retro fitting a mod to the original crossmember that would leave it as produced at Abingdon
If I had a couple of bodyshells and a hoist and a lift I think it could be done. JUST!
Most people think this was a journo rummaging through long established rules for summat to write, making something out of nothing, but as I say we live in fear for now.
My type 9 has transformed the car, with a "fast road" cam, MG Metro head and single HIF44 SU and peco tube exhaust manifold it can run all day at an easy 95 and has been run at more than that in convoy over seas in a country that may host a 24 hrs race. The speed confirmed by the other convoy members, a Boxster and a heavily modded Sprint racing Sprite.
In October at Marham she was doing 113 on the main runway straight
All of which is just to say that the five speeds make an immense difference to the useability of a Spridget and if the "proposals" turn out to be so much hot air, I'd advise continuing looking to do it
The speedo in a Midget will probably read "off" after the swap, so I fitted a bike speedo, which is accurate.
The Smiths speedo you can see is a 120mph MGB one, better by far than a Midget one that stops at the ton...
This picture is obvious photoshoppery
The crossmember needs to be cut out and a little floor behind it within the tunnel cut back, to enable the type 9 to fit inside the tunnel
I'd love to find a way of retro fitting a mod to the original crossmember that would leave it as produced at Abingdon
If I had a couple of bodyshells and a hoist and a lift I think it could be done. JUST!
Most people think this was a journo rummaging through long established rules for summat to write, making something out of nothing, but as I say we live in fear for now.
My type 9 has transformed the car, with a "fast road" cam, MG Metro head and single HIF44 SU and peco tube exhaust manifold it can run all day at an easy 95 and has been run at more than that in convoy over seas in a country that may host a 24 hrs race. The speed confirmed by the other convoy members, a Boxster and a heavily modded Sprint racing Sprite.
In October at Marham she was doing 113 on the main runway straight
All of which is just to say that the five speeds make an immense difference to the useability of a Spridget and if the "proposals" turn out to be so much hot air, I'd advise continuing looking to do it
The speedo in a Midget will probably read "off" after the swap, so I fitted a bike speedo, which is accurate.
The Smiths speedo you can see is a 120mph MGB one, better by far than a Midget one that stops at the ton...
This picture is obvious photoshoppery
Thanks for that, you're beginning to persuade me back again!
I've been looking at a website where the whole process is shown. Comparing photos, I think the crossmember on mine has already been cut. If you look closely at the photo I posted, you can see 2 stumps sticking out either side of the middle gearbox mount. I think the smaller crossmember is what they put in to strengthen it. See what I mean about the quality of the work they did? It looks almost factory original (assuming I'm correct!).
The question now is will the 5 speed fit as is without having to cut out the custom crossmember which appears lower and smaller than the original one? If it did, I don't think an MOT man would even notice! Only an expert on the subject would know.
My car has already been fitted with a 120mph speedo (definately needed!). At 100mph, I'm doing nearly 6 grand and although these early Ford engines can rev to 6500rpm+, I don't like to risk it for long periods. I usually keep it below 80mph on motorways. It is fun overtaking these giant modern machines in a little go-kart of a car though!
I've been looking at a website where the whole process is shown. Comparing photos, I think the crossmember on mine has already been cut. If you look closely at the photo I posted, you can see 2 stumps sticking out either side of the middle gearbox mount. I think the smaller crossmember is what they put in to strengthen it. See what I mean about the quality of the work they did? It looks almost factory original (assuming I'm correct!).
The question now is will the 5 speed fit as is without having to cut out the custom crossmember which appears lower and smaller than the original one? If it did, I don't think an MOT man would even notice! Only an expert on the subject would know.
My car has already been fitted with a 120mph speedo (definately needed!). At 100mph, I'm doing nearly 6 grand and although these early Ford engines can rev to 6500rpm+, I don't like to risk it for long periods. I usually keep it below 80mph on motorways. It is fun overtaking these giant modern machines in a little go-kart of a car though!
I think you are right
That does look modified and that'll be no doubt because it has to be for the 4 speed Ford box, am I rght?
Looks as if a 9 might slot in nicely for you
you need to compare a standard Midge with yours at some time.
I will say if I had the crossmember modded like that it would be easier to sort out
(which looks like a plan!)
At anytime what a MOT an reports to DVLA is going to be based on his guidlines and his interpretation of it
Good luck
That does look modified and that'll be no doubt because it has to be for the 4 speed Ford box, am I rght?
Looks as if a 9 might slot in nicely for you
you need to compare a standard Midge with yours at some time.
I will say if I had the crossmember modded like that it would be easier to sort out
(which looks like a plan!)
At anytime what a MOT an reports to DVLA is going to be based on his guidlines and his interpretation of it
Good luck
For yours and others info:
[IMG][IMG]
Here’s my (now too) short quickshift gear lever
It’s about 1½” too short now and my previous one was cut possibly 1½” too long (so 3” higher than the one in photo) at standard length they’re far too long for me as they’re really for Escort Mk1/2 saloon cars
Once I’m sure of the gear lever I’ll sort out the cloth gaiter and the rubber support beneath it to make it look a bit better but as you can see mine car's not exactly concours
The lever sits on a shorten type 9 box and is about 2” rearward and 1” left of the standard Spridget lever position
Below is a photo of the mounting plate but I’ll take a better photo from underneath, tomorrow or Wednesday when I change the engine and rear axle oils, to show cuts and reinforcing
You can also see how low the silly exhaust manifold is and how this has caused the u-clamp to be almost shaved thro’ at the bottom
[IMG][IMG]
[IMG][IMG]
Here’s my (now too) short quickshift gear lever
It’s about 1½” too short now and my previous one was cut possibly 1½” too long (so 3” higher than the one in photo) at standard length they’re far too long for me as they’re really for Escort Mk1/2 saloon cars
Once I’m sure of the gear lever I’ll sort out the cloth gaiter and the rubber support beneath it to make it look a bit better but as you can see mine car's not exactly concours
The lever sits on a shorten type 9 box and is about 2” rearward and 1” left of the standard Spridget lever position
Below is a photo of the mounting plate but I’ll take a better photo from underneath, tomorrow or Wednesday when I change the engine and rear axle oils, to show cuts and reinforcing
You can also see how low the silly exhaust manifold is and how this has caused the u-clamp to be almost shaved thro’ at the bottom
[IMG][IMG]
Edited by na on Tuesday 4th December 02:05
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