Why are people so anti MG?
Discussion
Why are people so anti MG? i know the cars have there faults and the K series doesn't suffer fools/abuse well. But apart from that i think they do there job very well as cheap sports cars. I've drove the MX5,MR2 and the TF and all 3 were equally great cars imo but 2 have praise one has none.
At my local sprint course a standard TF 160 puts in times shaming many good drivers in Boxsters/911's and modern hot hatches.
I just feel that if MG/Rover hadn't faced such ill feeling and people had looked at the cars in a fair light we might still have rover today.
At my local sprint course a standard TF 160 puts in times shaming many good drivers in Boxsters/911's and modern hot hatches.
I just feel that if MG/Rover hadn't faced such ill feeling and people had looked at the cars in a fair light we might still have rover today.
A long held tradition of knocking anything British I guess which is why we have no real car industry now and everything comes from Japan/China/Taiwan etc same thing happened to the Motorcycle industry in the UK. I was looking for a ZS for a friend at the weekend and visited one garage after another looking at MG's to be told oh you don’t really want one of those there rubbish and in the end lost it and told the salesman that he was an idiot (not as polite though) and they were great cars as long as they are not looked after by pr***s. Ive had a load of MG's and still do have a load, ive recommended them to friends and they have loved them too. Where I live they I don’t think they are considered as cars and unless you drive a Lotus or TVR up here you might as well just crawl back into the sewer. Anyway ill keep buying these afordable fun cars and sod the Anti MG lot. That probably didn’t answer your question but it helped me get a rant out from the weekend.
Cheers
Cheers
Edited by hearselover on Monday 8th February 13:56
hearselover said:
Conian said:
If someone at Rover does a poo, and you polish it and whack an MG badge, all you have is a shinier poo.
You have that mixed up with the Porsche design philosophy, just keep making the same shaped poo and hope no one notices.
Conian said:
If someone at Rover does a poo, and you polish it and whack an MG badge, all you have is a shinier poo.
Which, in one fell swoop, gives you at least 75% of the reason. It's ignorant people assuming that the MG Z cars differed from the Rover variants only in the badging without ever having actually driven one.Kermit power said:
Conian said:
If someone at Rover does a poo, and you polish it and whack an MG badge, all you have is a shinier poo.
Which, in one fell swoop, gives you at least 75% of the reason. It's ignorant people assuming that the MG Z cars differed from the Rover variants only in the badging without ever having actually driven one.In truth I dont dislike MG, I like what they used to be, I like the MGF, I like the concept of what they should be (making more cars in the spirit of the MGB, MGF). I just dont like the poor starting point they choose for most of their cars.
Poor starting point? For most of MG's history, right from the earliest days, the company made interesting cars out of humble ingredients. Certainly, from the T-type cars of the immediate pre- and post-WWII era onwards MG's were purpose built sports cars with fairly pedestrian underpinnings.
What they succeeded in doing was providing sports cars which were within the means of fairly average motorists. They were never competing with Porsche and Ferrari. Not even with Lotus. What hamstrung MG was lack of development. The original TF of the 1950's was a square-rigger, 1930's type car when the world had moved on. The MGA should have come earlier, which would have given it a slightly longer production run.
Similarly, by the late 70's, B's and Midgets were way passed their sell-by date.
Again, by the early 21st Century, the interior of the "modern" TF looked dated. And by that point in motoring history, motorists came to expect metronomic regularity from their cars, so when the K-series' Achilles heel of a weak head gasket became apparent (yes MGJohn, it *is* a weakness, your experience notwithstanding) that was the final nail in the coffin, and set the scene for the perceived wisdom that "MG's are crap".
They are not crap. But they are flawed. Old ones need the kind of regular maintenance of all cars of their era. K-series cars do need to be watched, and if (when?) HGF strikes, if it is detected early it is an inconvenience, not a catastrophe. To see what I mean, look at the way the K-series is regarded by Lotus drivers and Caterham pilots: its flaws are acknowledged, its strengths celebrated, and when it goes wrong it is fixed. If fixed right, it prolly won't go wrong. The crucial difference is that Lotus and Caterham owners are likely to be more mechanically astute and in tune with what is going on with their cars than people who buy less focused cars.
To save you looking at my profile, I have a '62 Midget and a '02 TF160. Yes, the TF has had HGF, around 60,000km ago. I know the car's faults, but there is nothing that can do more that I can buy for the same money. (I'm in Cape Town, so UK price comparisons won't help me much.)
James
What they succeeded in doing was providing sports cars which were within the means of fairly average motorists. They were never competing with Porsche and Ferrari. Not even with Lotus. What hamstrung MG was lack of development. The original TF of the 1950's was a square-rigger, 1930's type car when the world had moved on. The MGA should have come earlier, which would have given it a slightly longer production run.
Similarly, by the late 70's, B's and Midgets were way passed their sell-by date.
Again, by the early 21st Century, the interior of the "modern" TF looked dated. And by that point in motoring history, motorists came to expect metronomic regularity from their cars, so when the K-series' Achilles heel of a weak head gasket became apparent (yes MGJohn, it *is* a weakness, your experience notwithstanding) that was the final nail in the coffin, and set the scene for the perceived wisdom that "MG's are crap".
They are not crap. But they are flawed. Old ones need the kind of regular maintenance of all cars of their era. K-series cars do need to be watched, and if (when?) HGF strikes, if it is detected early it is an inconvenience, not a catastrophe. To see what I mean, look at the way the K-series is regarded by Lotus drivers and Caterham pilots: its flaws are acknowledged, its strengths celebrated, and when it goes wrong it is fixed. If fixed right, it prolly won't go wrong. The crucial difference is that Lotus and Caterham owners are likely to be more mechanically astute and in tune with what is going on with their cars than people who buy less focused cars.
To save you looking at my profile, I have a '62 Midget and a '02 TF160. Yes, the TF has had HGF, around 60,000km ago. I know the car's faults, but there is nothing that can do more that I can buy for the same money. (I'm in Cape Town, so UK price comparisons won't help me much.)
James
You ask why ~ easily answered ~ media brainwashing over many years, and plain ignorance.
It's something many brits now excel at doing ~ getting it wrong and the long term cost ~ which many are already now painfully feeling ~ will be ever more substantial.
My glum faced neighbour asked me what I thought about a cheap Rover a colleague had offered him. Glum because he had been made redundant recently because long term clients and the remnants of the business were going elsewhere ~ i.e. out of the UK.
I felt like telling him to look on the bright side, he'll have a lot more time on his hands to polish his 3-series and the wife's Golf before they have to go back ..
But, MGJohn does nbot kick somemone when they're down.
.... Some folks will learn ... the hard way. It could be anyone's turn next in the "things can only get better" former green and pleasant. Oh yes, when that nice desperate Dave and his team get in come the next Westminster reshuffle, only a fool will believe things will get any better for the rest of us, only some very few if that.
Another anti-MG and Rover neighbour who was until recently an over proud owner of a silver Boxster, has recently downsized to a Golf. He's occasionally a bit of a "Big I am" type and used to vociferously castigate me for my choice of cars incessantly going on about superior gerry build quality. About the time I took delivery of my new MGZS, his son came over and asked me had I heard about dad's Porsche. Apparently a severe engine fire left him stranded on the hard shoulder.
A little later his dad told me the sorry tale but, I did not let on that I already knew. It was an excellent opportunity to redress the balance a tad for his big mouth comments about my "poor" choice of car and his incessant ravings about german build quality but, again, I did not put the boot in despite the extreme temptation. Rover and MG drivers usually have more true class than that. He then told me what it cost to have his wunnerful Boxster repaired... about the same as my ZS cost new after discount! Ouch! He then asked how the still new MG was going ~ my family had just returned from touring the continent in it where my son casually let slip he cruised that car well into three figures fully loaded the rascal ! I told boxster dad that ... know what he said.
"That's those Honda engines for you" .... What a plonker and he's not alone by a long chalk!
46,000 miles later and driven mainly by my better half, the ZS still has yet to miss a beat like all my new products from Cowley, Abingdon and Longbridge over many years of motoring... Yeah, I know I've been lucky...
... There's more to it than that!
There's no hope for us in the former green and pleasant I fear unless there's a complete change of values throughout the population .... on all current evidence... oink-oink, flap flap...
He has since moved a mile away ~ downsizing his house too as well as the car. As I said, some learn the hard way.
Finally, that first neighbour made 'redundant' sold the two german sets of wheels and got that lil ol' Rover and it served him well for a year or two until he got back on his feet again. He too moved away ~ not far and guess what, there's a nice red Rover 75 on his drive now... so, some folks do actually learn....but, their numbers are too few.
This is just two stories to partly explain to the OP why in answer to his question about anti-MG. There are actually millions of similar stories and even I could relate a few more. Like those two seater Nipponese products PH mindsets always recommend when some PHer dares to consider getting an MGF/TF. Just ask two of my female work colleagues ( rather nice ladies actually ) who have spent close on a thousand quid each repairing the gearbox and engine on their oh so reliable Nipponese 2-seater products respectively. A more mature female colleague has one of the last MGTFs off the production line... in that beautiful silver-blue paint which changes with the direction angles of light. Never missed a beat but, you know what ladies are .... there's always a first time
Our neighbours the other side of the Atlantic have a saying which I feel is more applicable now to the UK rather than the USofA but, for different reasons.. Sadly, it is this...
Only in the UK!
.
It's something many brits now excel at doing ~ getting it wrong and the long term cost ~ which many are already now painfully feeling ~ will be ever more substantial.
My glum faced neighbour asked me what I thought about a cheap Rover a colleague had offered him. Glum because he had been made redundant recently because long term clients and the remnants of the business were going elsewhere ~ i.e. out of the UK.
I felt like telling him to look on the bright side, he'll have a lot more time on his hands to polish his 3-series and the wife's Golf before they have to go back ..
But, MGJohn does nbot kick somemone when they're down..... Some folks will learn ... the hard way. It could be anyone's turn next in the "things can only get better" former green and pleasant. Oh yes, when that nice desperate Dave and his team get in come the next Westminster reshuffle, only a fool will believe things will get any better for the rest of us, only some very few if that.
Another anti-MG and Rover neighbour who was until recently an over proud owner of a silver Boxster, has recently downsized to a Golf. He's occasionally a bit of a "Big I am" type and used to vociferously castigate me for my choice of cars incessantly going on about superior gerry build quality. About the time I took delivery of my new MGZS, his son came over and asked me had I heard about dad's Porsche. Apparently a severe engine fire left him stranded on the hard shoulder.
A little later his dad told me the sorry tale but, I did not let on that I already knew. It was an excellent opportunity to redress the balance a tad for his big mouth comments about my "poor" choice of car and his incessant ravings about german build quality but, again, I did not put the boot in despite the extreme temptation. Rover and MG drivers usually have more true class than that. He then told me what it cost to have his wunnerful Boxster repaired... about the same as my ZS cost new after discount! Ouch! He then asked how the still new MG was going ~ my family had just returned from touring the continent in it where my son casually let slip he cruised that car well into three figures fully loaded the rascal ! I told boxster dad that ... know what he said.
"That's those Honda engines for you" .... What a plonker and he's not alone by a long chalk!
46,000 miles later and driven mainly by my better half, the ZS still has yet to miss a beat like all my new products from Cowley, Abingdon and Longbridge over many years of motoring... Yeah, I know I've been lucky...
... There's more to it than that!There's no hope for us in the former green and pleasant I fear unless there's a complete change of values throughout the population .... on all current evidence... oink-oink, flap flap...
He has since moved a mile away ~ downsizing his house too as well as the car. As I said, some learn the hard way.
Finally, that first neighbour made 'redundant' sold the two german sets of wheels and got that lil ol' Rover and it served him well for a year or two until he got back on his feet again. He too moved away ~ not far and guess what, there's a nice red Rover 75 on his drive now... so, some folks do actually learn....but, their numbers are too few.
This is just two stories to partly explain to the OP why in answer to his question about anti-MG. There are actually millions of similar stories and even I could relate a few more. Like those two seater Nipponese products PH mindsets always recommend when some PHer dares to consider getting an MGF/TF. Just ask two of my female work colleagues ( rather nice ladies actually ) who have spent close on a thousand quid each repairing the gearbox and engine on their oh so reliable Nipponese 2-seater products respectively. A more mature female colleague has one of the last MGTFs off the production line... in that beautiful silver-blue paint which changes with the direction angles of light. Never missed a beat but, you know what ladies are .... there's always a first time
Our neighbours the other side of the Atlantic have a saying which I feel is more applicable now to the UK rather than the USofA but, for different reasons.. Sadly, it is this...
Only in the UK!
.
Oh yes, those pendulous Porsches... I shall always regard them as "Tarted Up" Beetles. The first one I ever saw as a small boy back in the early 1950s was just that....
It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
MGJohn said:
Oh yes, those pendulous Porsches... I shall always regard them as "Tarted Up" Beetles. The first one I ever saw as a small boy back in the early 1950s was just that....
It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
Porsche created Volkswagen, the car and even the badge.It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
That's one mighty track record, and from prosaic beginnings, just like MG...
So lets get this right..... you ASK for reasons why people dont like MG
Now you wont get these answers from people in the MG world because you (obviously) like MG.
So I come in here and give you my reason, my answer, one of the answers YOU asked for, and you decide to attack my choice of car. Good thread guys, but wait till an MX5 owner gets lured in, then how you gonna attack him eh?
Now you wont get these answers from people in the MG world because you (obviously) like MG.
So I come in here and give you my reason, my answer, one of the answers YOU asked for, and you decide to attack my choice of car. Good thread guys, but wait till an MX5 owner gets lured in, then how you gonna attack him eh?
MGJohn said:
Oh yes, those pendulous Porsches... I shall always regard them as "Tarted Up" Beetles. The first one I ever saw as a small boy back in the early 1950s was just that....
It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
I know this is slightly off-topic, but one of the most satisfying cars that I have ever had the pleasure of driving on a race track was a Carrera 3.2. One of the side effects of having the engine in the "wrong place" is that the car's attitude in a corner can be changed with judicious use of the throttle. It's an utterly brilliant car, made more brilliant by the fact that it requires careful pedalling to get the best out of it. As a driver's car it is very hard indeed to beat.It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
bikemonster said:
MGJohn said:
Oh yes, those pendulous Porsches... I shall always regard them as "Tarted Up" Beetles. The first one I ever saw as a small boy back in the early 1950s was just that....
It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
I know this is slightly off-topic, but one of the most satisfying cars that I have ever had the pleasure of driving on a race track was a Carrera 3.2. One of the side effects of having the engine in the "wrong place" is that the car's attitude in a corner can be changed with judicious use of the throttle. It's an utterly brilliant car, made more brilliant by the fact that it requires careful pedalling to get the best out of it. As a driver's car it is very hard indeed to beat.It's one of the few opinions I share with his Top Gear Tallness ...
Pendulous can be nice but, not in cars.... I shall always prefer a mid-engine, rear wheel drive configuration for my two seaters... not too many of those about but, one does come to mind.
Safety Fast MotorinG....
.
On a track maybe ~ but on a local bend seen several Porsches R-se backwards through the hedge including a very highly regarded top spec example with a very distinctive personal plate which I shall not detail here .. severe damage to both ends and no other vehicles involved. Pure coincidence? Unlikely..... That's what I meant by pendulous. No doubt how that happened, and the ones previously in the exact same location over a period of years. The first car I'd seen driven about in a less than shall we say 'low profile' fashion ..Yes, that is an understatement ..... it was simply a matter of time for that unfortunate car...
Playing at being a Hammond or Clarkson on the roads is asking for trouble. The Airfields and tracks are a different matter.
The only Porsche I've ever fancied owning is one of those least liked by so called Porsche "enthusiasts" some who have never driven let alone owned one...
... The Panamera... That would suit all my motoring needs nicely something none of the others could ever do. Not much pendulous in that Panamera baby.... .
*Prepares for flaming*
I don't dislike MG, they did the best with what they had to work with. But they are closely associated with Rover - who I dislike.
We used to own a Rover 600, it was a decent-ish car I suppose. But the company I associate with outdated working practises, heavily unionised workforces and other inefficient management - and like other UK companies that have been and gone, seemed to me, to take the 'woe is me' approach to winning back clients, resting on their 'being British' laurels rather than attracting clients for being overall best in class.
IMO.
I don't dislike MG, they did the best with what they had to work with. But they are closely associated with Rover - who I dislike.
We used to own a Rover 600, it was a decent-ish car I suppose. But the company I associate with outdated working practises, heavily unionised workforces and other inefficient management - and like other UK companies that have been and gone, seemed to me, to take the 'woe is me' approach to winning back clients, resting on their 'being British' laurels rather than attracting clients for being overall best in class.
IMO.
No one should flame you for having your oppinion no matter how wrong it is but that sounds as if its MG Rovers Business practices you disslike and not the products. I dont think MG are fantastic cars but I love them and ive owned quite a few classic and modern ones what I do think is that they are really good value and good fun to drive and have always been under rated just because of their association with Rover or back in the day British Leyland so basicaly guilt by association. There are loads of cars that I wouldnt want to own most of them German as it happnes but thats a different story.
but that sounds as if its MG Rovers Business practices you disslike and not the products. I dont think MG are fantastic cars but I love them and ive owned quite a few classic and modern ones what I do think is that they are really good value and good fun to drive and have always been under rated just because of their association with Rover or back in the day British Leyland so basicaly guilt by association. There are loads of cars that I wouldnt want to own most of them German as it happnes but thats a different story.MGJohn said:
Hmmmm ... there are more "brilliant" cars though ... particularly where handling is concerned.
.
Such as? There have been amny cars that have made greta race cars and many that have made greta rally cars, but I would imagine there aren't many that have had had great success as both, and which get sought by privateers as a weapon of choice. .
I can think of one though. It may be pendulous in novice hands (as is every car) but it seems to be bloody successful in skillful hands. It came fifth on the Monte in '65, 3rd in '67 and 1st and 2nd in '68, '69 and '70. A privateer also won outright in '78, beating the works teams and drivers, inc Walter Rohrl. During the same period many of them were competing at Le Mans and elsewhere and gaining class successes everywhere.
Given also the cars tremendous sales success in practically every market around the globe, i would suggest that no better car has ever been made.
I mean... think how many jobs have been created by that car, how many families have earned their keep off the back of it, how many mortgages have been paid, etc. And all from a company that started off by basing sports cars on their national equivalent of a Morris - why couldn't MG do it? After all they had a head start and weren't based in a country devastated by war, so there's no excuse.
The sheer numbers owned worldwide by 'enthusiasts' for the car means that some successes will be achieved even if only on a sod's law or law of averages basis as well as some on merit. Both Mercedes~Benz with their 1960s 220 and Austin/Morris with the little Mini had impressive victories in the Monte Carlo Rally. The latter were so successful that they found ways to disqualify them too.
I'm not going to go into further detail or, provide more examples as nothing I will say is going to change our stances on the pendulous Porsches... except to say watch those races for these cars ~ one assumes all in 'expert' experienced enthusiast/racer hands and then tell me they are NOT pendulous.... the evidence is always there for all to see... Fun, impressive even to witness but, not to experience...on the roads.
The basic design is flawed but, it has been honed and refined extensively and sells well throughout the planet ... that does not automatically mean that basic design is not flawed... it is. Pendulous describes it perfectly* ... and I probably drove one before you were born and some others since... So.... I'm not some geezah dahn the pub spouting off Chav style! It is my non-expert opinion based on experience of the things!
One thing I have to agree with you about ...ANY car can be a problem in the wrong hands.
Oh yes, a common misconception you have reitterated ... THIS country WAS devastated by War... Do not ever forget that... How do I know this? I was there and experienced that too! Muych younger of course.
Had this little nation not stuck our noses in back in the late 1930s you would maybe speaking german now ... and those first Nuclear Bombs may have been dropped not in Japan ... but ...
OOOPs I mentioned the war ...but, you started that in your post so....
.
Terms and Conditions Apply ..SMALL PRINT:
No germans were harmed in the preparation of this response ...
I'm not going to go into further detail or, provide more examples as nothing I will say is going to change our stances on the pendulous Porsches... except to say watch those races for these cars ~ one assumes all in 'expert' experienced enthusiast/racer hands and then tell me they are NOT pendulous.... the evidence is always there for all to see... Fun, impressive even to witness but, not to experience...on the roads.
The basic design is flawed but, it has been honed and refined extensively and sells well throughout the planet ... that does not automatically mean that basic design is not flawed... it is. Pendulous describes it perfectly* ... and I probably drove one before you were born and some others since... So.... I'm not some geezah dahn the pub spouting off Chav style! It is my non-expert opinion based on experience of the things!
One thing I have to agree with you about ...ANY car can be a problem in the wrong hands.
Oh yes, a common misconception you have reitterated ... THIS country WAS devastated by War... Do not ever forget that... How do I know this? I was there and experienced that too! Muych younger of course.
Had this little nation not stuck our noses in back in the late 1930s you would maybe speaking german now ... and those first Nuclear Bombs may have been dropped not in Japan ... but ...
- Yes, pendulous .... There again perhaps all that "Perfect balance" BMW are going on about means they are talking ...... 'ocks. The Bavarians have got it all wrong ~ they should put there engines out the back of the car ....they'd sell more then...
OOOPs I mentioned the war ...but, you started that in your post so....
.
Terms and Conditions Apply ..SMALL PRINT:
No germans were harmed in the preparation of this response ...
Edited by MGJohn on Monday 15th February 10:36
MGJohn said:
Oh yes, a common misconception you have reitterated ... THIS country WAS devastated by War... Do not ever forget that... How do I know this? I was there and experienced that too! Muych younger of course.
This country was arguably more devastated by the war than Germany. We'd lost most of a generation of young men, just like Germany. We'd had cities bombed to pieces and factories destroyed too.What we didn't have was a little thing called the Marshal plan pouring billions into the post-war reconstruction of mainland Europe, including Germany.
One thing we did have was the gentleman below, one Major Ivan Hirst, REME. One can only wonder how many Porkers there would be on the roads today if we hadn't lent him to the Germans for 5 years to rebuild Wolfsburg?
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