RE: MG XPower SV
Wednesday 29th October 2003
MG XPower SV
Now on sale, but can they justify £75K for just 320bhp?
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MG Sport & Racing is blasting the media today with info about the new SV which is now on sale. Launched at the motor show last year, the final product has been eagerly awaited by patriotic car enthusiasts here.
The entry level model is powered by a 320 hp 4.6 litre all aluminium quad cam V8 engine. That's good enough to launch the car to sixty in 5.3 seconds on on to about 165mph.
More powerful versions - and an automatic - will be available next year. There's still plenty of talk of being able to order a 765 hp version although we'll have to wait and see if they'll really deliver such a monstrously powerful car. It would certainly make for good publicity!
Inside the SV gets a sporty cabin - including full rollover protection - with both front seats getting inertia four belt harnesses which can also be locked for serious driving by the flick of a switch. Each cabin is trimmed with the customer’s choice of six leather finishes. Competition seats and fascias are available in a combination of leather and Alcantara allowing each vehicle to be uniquely personalised.
The chassis and carbon body are both constructed in Italy. Carbon provides the same stiffness as steel but is 25% of the weight. Suprising then, that the car still weighs in at over 1500kg. After assembly in Italy the cars are shipped to the UK for finishing at MG Sport & Racing’s newly established HQ at Longbridge, Birmingham by a dedicated team.
Standard fitment in every car is the latest Tracker system from Omitec which not only enables the car to be located and immobilised, in case of theft for example, but also links the vehicle to a central diagnostic control centre at Longbridge.
All good so far until we come to the price. MG are punting this out at a whopping £75K. Whilst exclusivity comes at a price it might prove tough to entice people out of similarly priced exotica into a 320bhp car. What a shame it couldn't have been nearer 400bhp for that price.
The car will be on sale at a network of special XPower dealerships, or directly from the MG Sport & Racing factory.
Discussion
That's a stupid price. For £20k less you could have a supercharged Mercedes E55 with 150 BHP more, and a bit more marque credibility.
Or an M5, or any one of a number of more powerful and more desirable cars.
Halve the price, or double the power. For £75k MG will have to produce something very special.
Or an M5, or any one of a number of more powerful and more desirable cars.
Halve the price, or double the power. For £75k MG will have to produce something very special.
james said:
That's a stupid price. For £20k less you could have a supercharged Mercedes E55 with 150 BHP more, and a bit more marque credibility.
marque credibility?? mercedes make taxi's!!
See what you are saying but they are not exactly in the same market now are they...??
You don't see that arguement being bandied about when someone is about to spend £100k on a porsche 911 turbo.....
You have effectively got a custom built race car here, built to your own specification, for a lot less than some track day monsters........
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 12:44
Buffalo said:
You don't see that arguement being bandied about when someone is about to spend £100k on a porsche 911 turbo.....
You have effectively got a custom built race car here, built to your own specification, for a lot less than some track day monsters........
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 12:44
It's hardly a custom built race car. It's a road car with a few racey bits and bobs bolted onto it to make it look a bit more purposeful, and it's got a puny engine compared to the competition.
You could get the same effect buying a Rover 75 and spending a couple of grand at Demon Tweeks.
james said:
You could get the same effect buying a Rover 75 and spending a couple of grand at Demon Tweeks.
No, you could not
360hp still does 0-60 in 5.3 secs and 165mph. How much does your E55 do it in anyway??
I take it you'll be ordering the the 765hp version
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 14:07
James hit the nail on the head.
At 35-40k it may have been a contender. At 75k without the 765bhp to egg people on, it will sell pitifully.
Did they learn nothing from Vauxhall's mistake with the Lotus Carlton... overpriced at 50k, reduced to late forties to sell the remainder of the curtailed production run. And that at least had another 57bhp and could play the practicality ticket.
People won't spend 75k on a Rover unless it does something special. 765bhp is something special. 320bhp isn't. Especially with those Max Power looks. If it had been a beautiful TVR-esque machine in carbon fibre and weighing in at 1100kgs, 320bhp would be enough for maybe a 55-65k price tag.
If they sell more than 10 I'll be amazed.
And saddened, as at 35k I think they'd sell a couple of thousand.
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 29th October 14:35
At 35-40k it may have been a contender. At 75k without the 765bhp to egg people on, it will sell pitifully.
Did they learn nothing from Vauxhall's mistake with the Lotus Carlton... overpriced at 50k, reduced to late forties to sell the remainder of the curtailed production run. And that at least had another 57bhp and could play the practicality ticket.
People won't spend 75k on a Rover unless it does something special. 765bhp is something special. 320bhp isn't. Especially with those Max Power looks. If it had been a beautiful TVR-esque machine in carbon fibre and weighing in at 1100kgs, 320bhp would be enough for maybe a 55-65k price tag.
If they sell more than 10 I'll be amazed.
And saddened, as at 35k I think they'd sell a couple of thousand.
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 29th October 14:35
Buffalo said:
No, you could not
360hp still does 0-60 in 5.3 secs and 165mph. How much does your E55 do it in anyway??
I take it you'll be ordering the the 765hp version
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 14:07
I think you'll find that the MG has 320 BHP, not 360.
Well my E55 is the previous normally aspirated version, so it'll only do 163 mph (it only has 365BHP). The new one that I'm talking about does 0-60 in about 4.7, and has a top speed of whatever it does when you get the speed limiter taken off. I'd guess somewhere around 180mph or so.
My point isn't that the Merc (or you may have noticed I also mentioned the M5 etc.) is a better car, but that it (and the others mentioned) are a lot cheaper, and a lot quicker.
I wouldn't order the 760 BHP or even a 1760 BHP version of the MG as a road car, even if it was sold at a sensible price. It looks like its been used to ram raid Halfords, and that isn't the sort of thing that floats my boat.
Not sure i like it either to be honest (although it does have presence and looks much better in the flesh IMO - i saw it at Donnington). Parts of it i do, and the idea of something like this - reckon MG have as much right to produce a car of this type as anyone. Just not sure if this particular concept has sailed its course already?
SV technically has the potential to be something very special, but reckon they should have offered the 765hp first and at this price, then brought out the 320hp version for those who want a piece but can't afford.
What little i have read of it, it seems to go well enough... There are cheaper and (some
) quicker cars than merc/M5, but that isn't the point really is it?? Still not in same market.
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 14:32
SV technically has the potential to be something very special, but reckon they should have offered the 765hp first and at this price, then brought out the 320hp version for those who want a piece but can't afford.
What little i have read of it, it seems to go well enough... There are cheaper and (some
) quicker cars than merc/M5, but that isn't the point really is it?? Still not in same market. >> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 14:32
Exactly. If they brought out the promissed 765BHP monster, they could have pitched it at £75k, or even £90k, and they'd have sold them to people who wanted the fastest road car on the planet. There are plenty of those. Then they could produce the watered down 320BHP version for those who wanted the looks and the reflected glory, and they'd have sold thousands of them.
Look back to the late 80's and early 90's when Rover brought out the famous 220 Turbo - The Tomcat. That was an awesome car for its time, and people then went out and bought de-badged 220 Coupe's in their droves, because they were buying a car that looked just like the real thing, but was cheaper and easier to live with.
Look back to the late 80's and early 90's when Rover brought out the famous 220 Turbo - The Tomcat. That was an awesome car for its time, and people then went out and bought de-badged 220 Coupe's in their droves, because they were buying a car that looked just like the real thing, but was cheaper and easier to live with.
But what is its market?
At the risk of sounding like an utter cock, I have done advertising work for Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Saab, BMW etc. and I can assure you that the market for a 75k 320bhp car with polarizing looks and an MG badge on its grille is about 3 genuine non discounted sales. All to the Sultan of Brunei because he gets 3 of everything that you can put a number plate on.
There is no market for this car, and I will be happy to be proved wrong when MG outsell Ferrari etc.
At the risk of sounding like an utter cock, I have done advertising work for Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Saab, BMW etc. and I can assure you that the market for a 75k 320bhp car with polarizing looks and an MG badge on its grille is about 3 genuine non discounted sales. All to the Sultan of Brunei because he gets 3 of everything that you can put a number plate on.
There is no market for this car, and I will be happy to be proved wrong when MG outsell Ferrari etc.
Maybe they are attempting to get into the market again...?
Test water with this, slowly get further into it with other models..? Who knows? Everyone had to start somewhere though. Took TVR some years to get where they are now, compare the T350c to some of the early models and you can see how far they have come. What about companies like Nissan or Honda..? Would the NSX/Skyline concept worked early on? Even now they aren't as prolific as porkers, ferraris, astons etc, but still sell...
Is it a case that if you can't outsell ferrari you can't enter the race to try??
MG used to make decent enough cars for their time, so its not as if they are starting from scratch. I can agree that at moment, not sure how sales will work out, but undoubtedly they will sell. If this can convince their lot to look into another *iimproved* model that really cuts it then i think thats a good thing.
This car needed bigger wheels and a back end to match the front end - then it would look better IMO!
Buff
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 14:57
Test water with this, slowly get further into it with other models..? Who knows? Everyone had to start somewhere though. Took TVR some years to get where they are now, compare the T350c to some of the early models and you can see how far they have come. What about companies like Nissan or Honda..? Would the NSX/Skyline concept worked early on? Even now they aren't as prolific as porkers, ferraris, astons etc, but still sell...
Is it a case that if you can't outsell ferrari you can't enter the race to try??
MG used to make decent enough cars for their time, so its not as if they are starting from scratch. I can agree that at moment, not sure how sales will work out, but undoubtedly they will sell. If this can convince their lot to look into another *iimproved* model that really cuts it then i think thats a good thing.
This car needed bigger wheels and a back end to match the front end - then it would look better IMO!
Buff
>> Edited by Buffalo on Wednesday 29th October 14:57
There is no market for the car they are producing though. No more so than a 1bhp tricycle made of chocolate with a Singer badge on the front and a price tag of 20k.
At the price it is, it will be an oddity, selling a handful a year to the rich, bored or clinically insane. And Rover board members, who will be at least one of the above.
The best thing Rover have done is put the V8 into the 75 and sell it for sub30k. Genius. That will do more for their brand than anything else. A mate of mine is a Rover dealer and I may be calling in for a chat in a year or two when the depreciation has done its worst. 20k for a v8 estate suite me.
It is admirable that Rover is also trying to enter the supercar market, but at 320bhp the SV is not a supercar. 320bhp was supercar bhp in 1977. Back then a 911SC had the same bhp as a 2004 Civic Type R. Things have moved on.
765bhp is different, because people will always want power. Some may even like the looks, maybe people who liked the batmobile when they were younger.
But if they wanted to enter the supercar market they should have done a solid 500bhp version, sold for 50k, with the 765bhp as a special order at 75k.
That would give the market some real competition - do you go for a 50k Tuscan or a more powerful MG?
The Skyline and the Honda NSX have the right spec at the right price. The MG doesn't. The NSX never sold because it lacked brand status. MG will find that it lacks brand status as well, and that cars sell as much for their badge or image in the supercar market as their dynamics. The reason for crap brand status tends to be the poor relation syndrome. Unless MG stop making 25s they will always have 9k cars dragging their 75k supercar down. Hence the NSX suffering from civic syndrome and the Lotus Carlton from Corsa-itis.
I would love the car to succeed Buff, but at 75k it won't. Something for the Heritage museum and to be a pace car at motorsport events, but that will be it.
They should either improve the car or decrease the price.
At the price it is, it will be an oddity, selling a handful a year to the rich, bored or clinically insane. And Rover board members, who will be at least one of the above.
The best thing Rover have done is put the V8 into the 75 and sell it for sub30k. Genius. That will do more for their brand than anything else. A mate of mine is a Rover dealer and I may be calling in for a chat in a year or two when the depreciation has done its worst. 20k for a v8 estate suite me.
It is admirable that Rover is also trying to enter the supercar market, but at 320bhp the SV is not a supercar. 320bhp was supercar bhp in 1977. Back then a 911SC had the same bhp as a 2004 Civic Type R. Things have moved on.
765bhp is different, because people will always want power. Some may even like the looks, maybe people who liked the batmobile when they were younger.
But if they wanted to enter the supercar market they should have done a solid 500bhp version, sold for 50k, with the 765bhp as a special order at 75k.
That would give the market some real competition - do you go for a 50k Tuscan or a more powerful MG?
The Skyline and the Honda NSX have the right spec at the right price. The MG doesn't. The NSX never sold because it lacked brand status. MG will find that it lacks brand status as well, and that cars sell as much for their badge or image in the supercar market as their dynamics. The reason for crap brand status tends to be the poor relation syndrome. Unless MG stop making 25s they will always have 9k cars dragging their 75k supercar down. Hence the NSX suffering from civic syndrome and the Lotus Carlton from Corsa-itis.
I would love the car to succeed Buff, but at 75k it won't. Something for the Heritage museum and to be a pace car at motorsport events, but that will be it.
They should either improve the car or decrease the price.
Silly price, funny looking car, warmed over aold chasiss design, from a company with still patchy quality control/reliability.
If you are determeined to buy "British" for this money, you'll go Aston or Jaguar.
If not a Porsche Carrera is a noticably faster package for less money, excellent car with an excellent pedigree.
And Aston Martin are bringing out the DB8 for £70k, superb looking car, Best of British, Cooler name, brand new state of the art Chassis.
The MG mark highest achievements have been in affordable 2 seater sports cars.
They should be concentrating on getting another MX5 class car out.
If you are determeined to buy "British" for this money, you'll go Aston or Jaguar.
If not a Porsche Carrera is a noticably faster package for less money, excellent car with an excellent pedigree.
And Aston Martin are bringing out the DB8 for £70k, superb looking car, Best of British, Cooler name, brand new state of the art Chassis.
The MG mark highest achievements have been in affordable 2 seater sports cars.
They should be concentrating on getting another MX5 class car out.
james said:
That's a stupid price. For £20k less you could have a supercharged Mercedes E55 with 150 BHP more, and a bit more marque credibility.
Or an M5, or any one of a number of more powerful and more desirable cars.
Halve the price, or double the power. For £75k MG will have to produce something very special.
you would say that. being the proud owner of an AMG E55. More to the point it looks like one of those Nissans that have ram-raided Halfords and I really don't think people with that kind of taste would by a 75K car. if you have the cash to splurge 75K then you could have a porsche or a TuscanR which is british, shitloads faster and has more racing DNA than can be mustered with some racing seats and a detuned ford engine.
This does not exactly look like Rovers smartest move
james said:
Exactly. If they brought out the promissed 765BHP monster, they could have pitched it at £75k, or even £90k, and they'd have sold them to people who wanted the fastest road car on the planet. There are plenty of those. Then they could produce the watered down 320BHP version for those who wanted the looks and the reflected glory, and they'd have sold thousands of them.
Look back to the late 80's and early 90's when Rover brought out the famous 220 Turbo - The Tomcat. That was an awesome car for its time, and people then went out and bought de-badged 220 Coupe's in their droves, because they were buying a car that looked just like the real thing, but was cheaper and easier to live with.
they could sell it at £100/bhp.
>> Edited by dans on Wednesday 29th October 16:04
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