Monday 5th February 2007

MG's owner will 'chat' with fans

Explore NAC's plans for MG in Webchat session

---

Webchat about the MG-TF

Chinese carmaker Nanjing Automotive Corporation (NAC) is setting up a webchat to allow MG enthusiasts to tell the company what they think.

This follows the company's recent announcement that MG car assembly would start at Longbridge.

Fielding questions from MG enthusiasts worldwide will be NAC’s Stephen Cox in the UK and Paul Stowe in China. Stowe is quality director with NAC in China, and Longbridge-based Cox is responsible for sales and franchising in the UK and Europe.

The aim is to enable MG enthusiasts to gain insight into NAC’s global ambitions for MG and to put questions to the company -- although there's no guarantee they'll all be answered of course.

Stowe said: “NAC recognises the positive and pivotal role that enthusiasts have played in the development of the MG brand, ever since Cecil Kimber’s very first car left the factory in 1924. Today, NAC not only recognises the historical importance and significance of MG enthusiasts, but is keen to build upon established links with MG enthusiasts worldwide.”

Cox said that, for commercial reasons, the webchat session wouldn't be able to go into details about new product plans.

However, he said: "Paul and I will be delighted to take questions across a range of areas, including the construction status of our plants in the United Kingdom and China; our partnerships; product validation, reliability and durability information; and NAC’s timetable for 2007.”

NAC reckoned that this is the first time ever a major motor manufacturer has provided enthusiasts with the chance to talk to the maker directly -- however, there's little suggestion that, other than mounting a publicity stunt, the company feels it has much to learn from enthusiasts of the marque. Here's hoping we're wrong...

NAC said questions should be emailed in advance to the address below before 1700 UTC on Tuesday 6 February 2007. The webchat session starts at 1100 UTC this Thursday, 8 February 2007, on the MG & Rover enthusiasts’ Web site (see link below) and is set to last an hour.

Instructions on how to access the webchat will be posted on the site Thursday morning.

Links

• www.MG-Rover.org
• Email questions to: [e-mail]
• Related story: MG-TF returns to Longbridge

[jazzyjeff]

"Chinese carmaker Nanjing Automotive Corporation (NAC) is setting up a webchat to allow MG enthusiasts to tell the company what they think."

I do hope they have an expletive filter!!!

JJ

[fwdracer]

In the spirirt of political correctness... do they do home delivery

[vixpy1]

fwdracer said:

In the spirirt of political correctness... do they do home delivery

They are going to introduce a new number orientated ordering system..

I'll have Car number 11, with options 9, 18, 54..

Oh.. and some noddles please.

[gridgway]

Interesting use of UTC. I wonder why they are using that? Is GMT out of favour, not politically correct, offensive to some minorities (maybe all the people that dont live in Greenwich)? Or do they need the accuracy of the atomic clock? Is it a pointer of things MG to come?

Graham

[scoobiewrx]

I think MG China should 'Fluck Orf' out of the UK and towt their tin cans in India or somewhere they don't care about the quality of their motor cars and worry more about how spectaculary they'll fall apart when used as bumper cars!!

MG.....Asia's new Austin Westminster!!

[Kermit power]

gridgway said:

Interesting use of UTC. I wonder why they are using that? Is GMT out of favour, not politically correct, offensive to some minorities (maybe all the people that dont live in Greenwich)? Or do they need the accuracy of the atomic clock? Is it a pointer of things MG to come?

Graham

GMT can be a nightmare in the context of setting up International conference calls and web meetings! We get issues with this fairly frequently, especially with countries that don't change the clocks for summer time. People assume GMT means UK time, which of course it doesn't in the summer, so some phone in an hour early, and get fed up when nobody else is online. Then of course when other people call in at the correct time, the people who called in early are missing!

[Fire99]

I'm as gutted as the next man about MG Rover's collapse but, correct me if i'm wrong, this is the best of a bad job.
MG should be home grown and british but is the current situation Nanjing's fault? (as i say correct me if i'm wrong here)

Unless they are guilty of something i'm overlooking then i say good luck to them. They are clearly making some kind of effort bridging the 'gap' so to speak.

And their success is a hope for some workers in the Longbridge area..

[Yellow Fever]

I'm with Fire99 on this one. One way or the other we, all of us, f***ed up and let MG slip under the waves. Fact. History. NAC has at least kept to its promise to put some of the work back in the UK. I wish them luck in their efforts to overtake Morgan as the largest British carmaker.
And hey, who knows, maybe Chinese will become the new German and the usual bunch of soft-brained, sneering w***ers will be queueing up outside the showrooms with the Chinese equivalent of 'Vorsprung durch technik' written on the windows? Maybe NAC could charge double the actual value of the car and one day soon we might be seeing three parked in front of every estate agents emporium?

[Kermit power]

I would echo the sentiment of the last 2 posts. As far as I know, NAC didn't have hordes of Fith columnists deep inside Longbridge working to bring about its demise. For me, 4 factors were at play:

1. Poor management.

2. Poor PR. How many people know that the land speed record for an estate car is held by an MG ZT-T? After all the time & effort that went into securing it?

3. Unlike the French and the Germans, we don't slavishly Buy British. We buy what we perceive to be the best product. Unfortunately, this is coupled with a tendency to assume that British cannot be best. Maybe that's why Honda doesn't plaster "Built in Britain" stickers all over the Civic?

4. Even if the first 2 points had been addressed, could MGR have survived at the size they were in such a globalised market?

The only thing that makes me feel at all uncomfortable about the Chinese owning the brand is that unlike most Western or Indian companies, the UK's investment trusts can't buy up chunks of the company.

[fatboy b]

Kermit power said:

I would echo the sentiment of the last 2 posts. As far as I know, NAC didn't have hordes of Fith columnists deep inside Longbridge working to bring about its demise. For me, 4 factors were at play:

1. Poor management.

That seems to be the way with any British manufacturing business these days. MGR's problems go back to the BL(MC) days.

Kermit power said:

2. Poor PR. How many people know that the land speed record for an estate car is held by an MG ZT-T? After all the time & effort that went into securing it?

Exactly why were they spending much needed cash doing this in the first place. Great record yes, but was it really top priority to a failing company? I guess refer to #1

Kermit power said:

3. Unlike the French and the Germans, we don't slavishly Buy British. We buy what we perceive to be the best product. Unfortunately, this is coupled with a tendency to assume that British cannot be best. Maybe that's why Honda doesn't plaster "Built in Britain" stickers all over the Civic?

So how comes the Mini is so successful?? Granted it's designed by the Germans, but everyone knows that it's built in Blighty.

Kermit power said:

4. Even if the first 2 points had been addressed, could MGR have survived at the size they were in such a globalised market?

I believe that everyone know that MGR was going to go done once BMW off loaded it. It really was a matter of time. All the vehicles were old, with the 75 being the youngest designed a decade ago. They made no real attempt to shake off the history of a company that makes shite cars. A company cannot compete globally with this track record. Same goes for the Chinese if they think they can inflict they're quality in Europe.

[Kermit power]

fatboy b said:

stuff

On point 2, I think they were right to be doing that sort of thing, as it was needed to build the MG marque back up as a sporting marque to try and get people away from "it's a Rover with a bodykit".

On point 3, with Mini, BMW rather proved point 2. They took what is really just another small car, albeit a pretty decent one, and through funky interiors and above all probably the best ever automotive PR and marketing campaign effectively created a completely new market sector. Also, given the quintessential Britishness of the original Mini, there's no way that they could ever have done anything other than play up the Britishness.

Sadly it seems it takes a German company to get British people to believe that British can be best!

[wozzap]

Some facts from the local news last night

>25% of the former Longbridge workers are still unemployed . Thats at least 1500 people.
Of those that got new jobs <50% are earning significantly less then they were when at Rover.

The last I saw of NAC "plans" involved several local dignitaries similing at the camaras because NAC had commited to create 40 new jobs.

And you think NAC is the best game in town! This is not about cars, or bad management, or bad PR, it's a growing social problem about which the government doesn't care. 8000 jobs were lost in manufacturing in December alone and the snowball is growing quickly. How much money do you think that NAC will put into the local economy? Everything will be shipped in and they will want to pay minimum wage for people to "assemble" the cars.
Everyone employed in the services sector can sit back and look smug. But no one will be smiling when the rioting starts and your Merc has been tourched. And it won't be far away at this rate.
I for one don't buy this crap that the decline in manufacturing is a natural progression (farming to manufacturing to services). Is Germany giving up it's manufacturing base? Are the Americans giving up theirs (or their farming for that matter)?. I don't think so.
Has anybody thought what we would do if there was a war on the scale of WW2? What factories would be turn over to munitions manufacture? Or would the PM be on the phone to China to see if they would supply us!

[Kermit power]

wozzap said:

Some facts from the local news last night

>25% of the former Longbridge workers are still unemployed . Thats at least 1500 people.
Of those that got new jobs <50% are earning significantly less then they were when at Rover.

The last I saw of NAC "plans" involved several local dignitaries similing at the camaras because NAC had commited to create 40 new jobs.

And you think NAC is the best game in town! This is not about cars, or bad management, or bad PR, it's a growing social problem about which the government doesn't care. 8000 jobs were lost in manufacturing in December alone and the snowball is growing quickly. How much money do you think that NAC will put into the local economy? Everything will be shipped in and they will want to pay minimum wage for people to "assemble" the cars.
Everyone employed in the services sector can sit back and look smug. But no one will be smiling when the rioting starts and your Merc has been tourched. And it won't be far away at this rate.
I for one don't buy this crap that the decline in manufacturing is a natural progression (farming to manufacturing to services). Is Germany giving up it's manufacturing base? Are the Americans giving up theirs (or their farming for that matter)?. I don't think so.
Has anybody thought what we would do if there was a war on the scale of WW2? What factories would be turn over to munitions manufacture? Or would the PM be on the phone to China to see if they would supply us!

One major problem is that everyone wants to be paid Western wages, but they don't want to pay the cost of goods manufactured by people paid Western wages. This can still be addressed to an extent in the car industry because the end product is big and expensive to ship around the World, but for smaller commoditised products such as MP3 players, the only way you could possibly make the UK competitive in their manufacture again would be to go back to paying similar wages to those paid in China, something which unsurprisingly is not happening.

We have effectively priced ourselves out of the low-level manufacturing sector, so this leaves 2 options. Firstly wither and die, or secondly evolve into provision of greater value add industries. And yes, this does generally mean services.

Things are somewhat different in the States, given that you are talking about a single country that is almost the size and population of Western Europe, but even the protectionism there only seems to be slowing the decline. Germany and France on the other hand are building up a whole load of pain for the future when they can't support the increasing costs of pensions and other benefits currently being paid out.

It may not be an ideal solution, but what alternative do you suggest?

[KANEIT]

It seems we get a little embarrased about our own products, trying to diss them and talk up their failings, and then we put blind faith in foreign stuff thats not really any better. There is not the willpower in this country to keep our hands on our own companies as we simply don't care enough. I don't mean we should keep control of our own companies simply for pride but for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread that we are in the muck should we require our factories in future wars or periods of instability.

I don't understand the point that U.K manufacturing is too expensive.
If the Germans can manufacture their own cars at home (higher wages than us) and then buy up companies and plant around the world, making cheaper cars there because of cheaper wages, then why can't we? How can Honda and Nissan produce some of their low end models (the Civic and Micra) here if it's so expensive? How can the Mini be viable/so successful if built here?
Do we ignore this Chinese company and hope their MG intentions fail or do we back them for keeping the MG name alive and providing us with a few jobs?

[Kermit power]

KANEIT said:

It seems we get a little embarrased about our own products, trying to diss them and talk up their failings, and then we put blind faith in foreign stuff thats not really any better. There is not the willpower in this country to keep our hands on our own companies as we simply don't care enough. I don't mean we should keep control of our own companies simply for pride but for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread that we are in the muck should we require our factories in future wars or periods of instability.

I don't understand the point that U.K manufacturing is too expensive.
If the Germans can manufacture their own cars at home (higher wages than us) and then buy up companies and plant around the world, making cheaper cars there because of cheaper wages, then why can't we? How can Honda and Nissan produce some of their low end models (the Civic and Micra) here if it's so expensive? How can the Mini be viable/so successful if built here?
Do we ignore this Chinese company and hope their MG intentions fail or do we back them for keeping the MG name alive and providing us with a few jobs?

I did make the point that there were clear exceptions in the car industry, and I do believe that the MGR demise was down to poor management as much as anything else, but it's not exactly all smelling of roses elsewhere. Look at the losses the US companies are running up. VW aren't exactly looking too healthy, and now that you have all the ex Warsaw bloc countries in the EU, so no trade barriers, how long will it be until all the factories move to Slovenia and the like?

For me it all boils down to the fact that Chinese people are paid something like $20 a week to make Ipods and similar products. How are you going to compete with a workforce that expects a similar amount as an hourly rate?

[KANEIT]

Kermit power said:

KANEIT said:

It seems we get a little embarrased about our own products, trying to diss them and talk up their failings, and then we put blind faith in foreign stuff thats not really any better. There is not the willpower in this country to keep our hands on our own companies as we simply don't care enough. I don't mean we should keep control of our own companies simply for pride but for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread that we are in the muck should we require our factories in future wars or periods of instability.

I don't understand the point that U.K manufacturing is too expensive.
If the Germans can manufacture their own cars at home (higher wages than us) and then buy up companies and plant around the world, making cheaper cars there because of cheaper wages, then why can't we? How can Honda and Nissan produce some of their low end models (the Civic and Micra) here if it's so expensive? How can the Mini be viable/so successful if built here?
Do we ignore this Chinese company and hope their MG intentions fail or do we back them for keeping the MG name alive and providing us with a few jobs?

I did make the point that there were clear exceptions in the car industry, and I do believe that the MGR demise was down to poor management as much as anything else, but it's not exactly all smelling of roses elsewhere. Look at the losses the US companies are running up. VW aren't exactly looking too healthy, and now that you have all the ex Warsaw bloc countries in the EU, so no trade barriers, how long will it be until all the factories move to Slovenia and the like?

For me it all boils down to the fact that Chinese people are paid something like $20 a week to make Ipods and similar products. How are you going to compete with a workforce that expects a similar amount as an hourly rate?

I understand your point. I see Ford are losing money each year that could have bought MGROVER many times over. The difference is that Ford are sooo big they can somehow absorb those losses, for a while anyway.They have the time and resources to exploit the Chinese labour forces before it is too late.
The old saying if you can't beat them join them! Or as Ford are probably saying If you cant beat them buy them!

MGROVER just had too little money after they flittered away so much on the SV project. If we want to save MGROVER we need to go back in time to when BL was a big player and ensured it stayed that way.

[bigbadbikercats]

KANEIT said:

MGROVER just had too little money after they flittered away so much on the SV project.

The cost of not quite developing the SV was the least of MG Rover's problems. Compared with the money it would have cost to produce credible replacements for the 25/ZR, 45/ZS. 75/ZT, and TF the SV cost of the SV was pocket money...

--
JG

[wozzap]

[quote=Kermit power[/quote]

VW aren't exactly looking too healthy,

In what dimension are VW "not looking too healty"? Their last reported operating profit was Euro 1120 000 000. And thats with higher wage and social cost than the UK.
I'm sure management was an issue with Rover and I'm sure that VW and the like have similar issues, but I can't imagine the German people standing by and watching it die.

[Yellow Fever]

A 101 valid points have been raised and it's refreshing to see that in fact a lot of people think like I do on this one. However, I think we've missed one huge factor - the cost of housing. It's wreaked social havoc in the UK, things having come down to the haves (own a house) and have nots (don't own a house). It's ruined manufacturing industry in three ways, firstly, land values - some of the Longbridge site is already being built on and most of the rest will be in due course, secondly high house prices push up wage demands, again putting incredible pressure on manufacturing industry and thirdly, why invest in manufacturing when you can invest in housing development with guaranteed big returns?

Unless the government acts to STOP house price inflation, manufacturing industry will continue to decline in the UK and social divisions will continue to widen. I can't particularly see that either political party is worse than the other on this one. But we all need to exert pressure on our MPs to act on this issue. We are, as someone said above, pricing ourselves out of the market for farming and manufacturing - and even lower end services e.g. call centres and it isn't sustainable, the bubble has to burst somewhere.

I tell you, it should be a matter of national shame that we can't run a car manufacturing company and the French, Germans, Japanese and now even the Chinese have to come here to show us how to do it. Pass me the cyanide capsule!

[red_rover]

fatboy b said:

Kermit power said:

I would echo the sentiment of the last 2 posts. As far as I know, NAC didn't have hordes of Fith columnists deep inside Longbridge working to bring about its demise. For me, 4 factors were at play:

1. Poor management.

That seems to be the way with any British manufacturing business these days. MGR's problems go back to the BL(MC) days.

Kermit power said:

2. Poor PR. How many people know that the land speed record for an estate car is held by an MG ZT-T? After all the time & effort that went into securing it?

Exactly why were they spending much needed cash doing this in the first place. Great record yes, but was it really top priority to a failing company? I guess refer to #1

Kermit power said:

3. Unlike the French and the Germans, we don't slavishly Buy British. We buy what we perceive to be the best product. Unfortunately, this is coupled with a tendency to assume that British cannot be best. Maybe that's why Honda doesn't plaster "Built in Britain" stickers all over the Civic?

So how comes the Mini is so successful?? Granted it's designed by the Germans, but everyone knows that it's built in Blighty.

Kermit power said:

4. Even if the first 2 points had been addressed, could MGR have survived at the size they were in such a globalised market?

I believe that everyone know that MGR was going to go done once BMW off loaded it. It really was a matter of time. All the vehicles were old, with the 75 being the youngest designed a decade ago. They made no real attempt to shake off the history of a company that makes shite cars. A company cannot compete globally with this track record. Same goes for the Chinese if they think they can inflict they're quality in Europe.

Huh? History of cars that make shite cars?

Since when was there a shite Rover?
Since was there an unloved shite MG?

Up untill BMW takeover, Rover group sales were above BMWs and were making money. The 25 & 45 were old, but they weren't shite just out dated.