The Chinese deal!
Discussion
Not sure what alternative they have if they want to survive. They have made it known that they need to partner with another manufacturer for quite a while now and presumably no other suitable offers have been forthcoming.
The current product line is ageing and they need investment from somewhere.
The current product line is ageing and they need investment from somewhere.
Its a good deal.
National pride aside, and with an all rational head set in place there is really no other way forward.
MG Rover have the brains to develop great new cars (just look at the Mini --- and yes MGR designed and developed it, NOT BMW) but no money. The Chinese have the money, but lack the expertise, and have been unable to persuade their other JV partners (GM and VW) to let them have it. Looks like a marriage where both sides have needs that the other can address well.
After decades of being shagged over by inept management, bloody minded unions, numerous suitors who just wanted to make a fast buck (BAE, BMW) it's a miracle that there is anything left to even haggle over.
The last straw was the BMW pull out. They took the Mini, sold off Land Rover, Cashed in lots of juicy real estate, took all the IP and patents, most of the brand names (they still hold Triumph for some reason) and they even wiped the computer hard drives before they left the building. One of the many reasons I will never buy a BMW again.
The deal is for a new joint venture company, with the Chinese holding 70% of that new company. It's not for the sale of MGR itself.
Don't panic if the old 25 production gets moved to China. There will be a nice new 25/45 range built at Longbridge to take it's place, designed by MGR and funded by the Chinese.
There will be job losses - MGR produces about 16 cars per employee per year, and that is simply suicide in a world where Japanese plants often produce 160+ cars per employee per year! Just think about that!!
No doubt about it, we might finally be seeing an end to the perenial "will MGR survive" question if this deal goes ahead. If it does, I personally think they will not just survive, but flourish as a brand.
I've eben put my money where my mouth is and bought a ZT -T 190. I have to say, its a bloody fantastic car too. Much better than the Volvo S60 and BMW 3 series that preceeded it (Honestly!, if you don't believe me just go drive one)
Andy
National pride aside, and with an all rational head set in place there is really no other way forward.
MG Rover have the brains to develop great new cars (just look at the Mini --- and yes MGR designed and developed it, NOT BMW) but no money. The Chinese have the money, but lack the expertise, and have been unable to persuade their other JV partners (GM and VW) to let them have it. Looks like a marriage where both sides have needs that the other can address well.
After decades of being shagged over by inept management, bloody minded unions, numerous suitors who just wanted to make a fast buck (BAE, BMW) it's a miracle that there is anything left to even haggle over.
The last straw was the BMW pull out. They took the Mini, sold off Land Rover, Cashed in lots of juicy real estate, took all the IP and patents, most of the brand names (they still hold Triumph for some reason) and they even wiped the computer hard drives before they left the building. One of the many reasons I will never buy a BMW again.
The deal is for a new joint venture company, with the Chinese holding 70% of that new company. It's not for the sale of MGR itself.
Don't panic if the old 25 production gets moved to China. There will be a nice new 25/45 range built at Longbridge to take it's place, designed by MGR and funded by the Chinese.
There will be job losses - MGR produces about 16 cars per employee per year, and that is simply suicide in a world where Japanese plants often produce 160+ cars per employee per year! Just think about that!!
No doubt about it, we might finally be seeing an end to the perenial "will MGR survive" question if this deal goes ahead. If it does, I personally think they will not just survive, but flourish as a brand.
I've eben put my money where my mouth is and bought a ZT -T 190. I have to say, its a bloody fantastic car too. Much better than the Volvo S60 and BMW 3 series that preceeded it (Honestly!, if you don't believe me just go drive one)
Andy
andymadmak said:
Its a good deal.
National pride aside, and with an all rational head set in place there is really no other way forward.
MG Rover have the brains to develop great new cars (just look at the Mini --- and yes MGR designed and developed it, NOT BMW) but no money. The Chinese have the money, but lack the expertise, and have been unable to persuade their other JV partners (GM and VW) to let them have it. Looks like a marriage where both sides have needs that the other can address well.
After decades of being shagged over by inept management, bloody minded unions, numerous suitors who just wanted to make a fast buck (BAE, BMW) it's a miracle that there is anything left to even haggle over.
The last straw was the BMW pull out. They took the Mini, sold off Land Rover, Cashed in lots of juicy real estate, took all the IP and patents, most of the brand names (they still hold Triumph for some reason) and they even wiped the computer hard drives before they left the building. One of the many reasons I will never buy a BMW again.
The deal is for a new joint venture company, with the Chinese holding 70% of that new company. It's not for the sale of MGR itself.
Don't panic if the old 25 production gets moved to China. There will be a nice new 25/45 range built at Longbridge to take it's place, designed by MGR and funded by the Chinese.
There will be job losses - MGR produces about 16 cars per employee per year, and that is simply suicide in a world where Japanese plants often produce 160+ cars per employee per year! Just think about that!!
No doubt about it, we might finally be seeing an end to the perenial "will MGR survive" question if this deal goes ahead. If it does, I personally think they will not just survive, but flourish as a brand.
I've eben put my money where my mouth is and bought a ZT -T 190. I have to say, its a bloody fantastic car too. Much better than the Volvo S60 and BMW 3 series that preceeded it (Honestly!, if you don't believe me just go drive one)
Andy
It is a good deal as long as British jobs are not competiting against £5 a week, slave labour in China.
As for the ZT -T 190, it is a great car!
jamesc said:
It is a good deal as long as British jobs are not competiting against £5 a week, slave labour in China.
!
yes and no to that. Chinese wages are rising fast, and rather more than £5 per week already!
The real problem though at MGR is chronicly poor production efficiency. (number of cars per man)
Part of this is due to lack of investment - automation costs money and MGR has been unable to fund this,- part is also caused by MGR no longer making cars to stock pile to the degree they used to. If demand drops off (as it has done) then they produce less. A good strategy, but it's spoiled because they don't make people redundant as they should though, so the labour cost per car produced is too high, - and part is also caused by the West Midlands labour force still believing that MGR has a divine right to exist as a sort of social support and job creation project for the area. Don't get me wrong, the MGR workforce is sooooo much better than it was in the 1970s, but there are still some lingering attitudes that will have to change.
The quality of the workmanship however is very good these days. (45k miles in my ZTT without so much as a bulb failure so far)
Some production will go to China, but I believe that if the new cars, funded by the Chinese, are any thing like as good as I've heard they are,then they will sell very well indeed, and production at Longbridge will rise very significantly. Rover could be back to making 300k cars per annum in the UK within a few years. Lets be honest, if you look at what the MGR engineers have been able to do with the existing stuff with less budget than BMW spend on designing the ashtray on the 3 series then you have to get a bit excited about the prospects for the new cars once the Chinese money is in place!
Imagine a range like this:
New small car based on "Spiritual" concept vehicles
New 25 replacement, with significant elements of the 75/ZT chassis technology incorporated.
New 45 range, again based around cut down 75/ZT chassis technology to include MPV, estate and coupe versions, 4 x 4 and rwd versions could be a possibility too.
Revamped and expanded 75/ZT range, possibly to include coupe and 4 x 4 versions
TF replacement
TF coupe possibly to include V6 variant
Revamped, repositioned and revised SV range, possibly to expand to include a £40k TVR eater......
Revamped K series engines, Euro 5 compliant with some very ineresting valve train technology. KV6 expanded or even supercharged for higher outputs.
If all goes well, the real possibility of a 4.0 litre KV8 version with up to 400hp in NA trim!
6 speed transmissions
This is what MGR brings to the party. Lets not let cynicism get in the way. Wish them luck and look forward to buying the products
Andy
I read in the times that the four directors stand to make £40million each if the SIAC deal goes through! That is a hugh return on the £40,000 each that the directors put in. So the directors get £160million and the Government gives the Chinese £100million! This deal stinks and it is the suppliers that will loose out!
Looks like it is all going pear shaped! The only man who can save Rover is Jon Moulton of Alchemy.
www.alchemypartners.com
>> Edited by jamesc on Tuesday 5th April 09:30
www.alchemypartners.com
>> Edited by jamesc on Tuesday 5th April 09:30
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