Will a MG Midget 1500 happily do 70 for 2 and a half hours
Discussion
Yes and no. It would sit at those speeds ok probably but I wouldn't recommend it in standard form! The 1500 engine doesn't like revs due to its long stroke design, add on low gearing aswell means it's not very long legged! However it is torquey low down the rev range and pulls very well on hills, but still doing sustained high revs won't help longlivity, or your ears. I'd imagine 70 would be 4500rpm ish (I have one and haven't gone above 60ish!)
However IIRC a triumph spitfire overdrive gearbox will fit a midget 1500 with only little modification needed and I'd imagine this would do alright at 70! Another point to add for the 1500 if it were to see this sort of use would be an oil cooler as this was a problem in the tight engine bay, meaning in extreme circumstances oil breaks down and doesn't protect and lubricate like it should.
A MGB would be a better motorway car IMO and a 1275 midget may be better at sustained higher revs, but with a few mods the 1500 would be perfectly adequate.
I will add though that midgets are brilliant fun, literally a go kart of wheels and really good value! I loved mine but regrettably it's up for sale due to an expensive mgb respray bill! One final thing is watch out for rusty sills and spring hangars.
Just my 2 pence worth, but hope it helps!
However IIRC a triumph spitfire overdrive gearbox will fit a midget 1500 with only little modification needed and I'd imagine this would do alright at 70! Another point to add for the 1500 if it were to see this sort of use would be an oil cooler as this was a problem in the tight engine bay, meaning in extreme circumstances oil breaks down and doesn't protect and lubricate like it should.
A MGB would be a better motorway car IMO and a 1275 midget may be better at sustained higher revs, but with a few mods the 1500 would be perfectly adequate.
I will add though that midgets are brilliant fun, literally a go kart of wheels and really good value! I loved mine but regrettably it's up for sale due to an expensive mgb respray bill! One final thing is watch out for rusty sills and spring hangars.
Just my 2 pence worth, but hope it helps!
elephantstone said:
Toying with the idea), but will need it to do the motorway trips to holiday home in wales and down to Bath once or twice.
what once or twice a week, a month, a yeardepending on the previous and present (that's you) owners' care of the car it should be easily capable of two and half hours of motorway driving, perhaps the engine and car for that matter aren't the best suited for it but would be capable
whether you'd want to do a lot of motorway journeys is a different matter but I guess you don't intend to go on motorways that often, Midgets are for twisty A and b roads
what revs the Midget 1500 does at 70mph depends on whether it still has its original gearbox and diff -
early 1500s had a 3.9:1 diff so 16.5 mph/1,000 revs in 4th (4,250 revs at 70mph)
after Aug '77 the diff was 3.7:1 so 17.9 mph/1,000 revs in 4th (3,910 revs at 70mph)
(note, all figures rounded)
elephantstone said:
It seems
seemselephantstone said:
with lots spent on maintenance, so you would think it would be slightly reliable...
depends on what you consider to be lots spent on maintenance and what the money was spent on and why, regular use throughout all seasons of the year along with regular full and proper servicing, maintenance and repairs is what gets and keeps reliabilityif it's got an oil cooler just remember they weren't an original fit so why is it there (usually to cover overheating issues that the 1500s can be prone too depending on previous and present owners) and if it's not fitted with an oil stat then you'll want to fit one or most of the year your oil will be over cooled
Darren if you actually used your Midget more you'd know what it is capable of and by using it more it would become more capable and so would your driving of it as you built confidence and learn what your Midget could/should/is able to do
when new they weren't bought to be driven at 60mph (NSL on country roads was 70mph back then btw) - your Midget if it's in good condition should easily be able to keep up with 70mph on dual-carriageways and motorways
not that I'm suggesting taking those roads when you don't have to because they're boring roads and the car isn't at its best on them but there's no need to avoid these roads if you have to use them
ETA: you've got the need for oil cooling slightly wrong, see my post above, from the factory oil coolers were not fitted or even offered as an optional extra, it was only later when the engine had got into a bit of a state that many added oil coolers, sorting the primary 'water' cooling would help many of these cars
the B doesn't need an oil cooler either even though they were fitted with one
both cars if they have an oil cooler fitted should also have an oil thermostat fitted or most time throughout the year the oil will be overcooled which doesn't help the oil or engine
when new they weren't bought to be driven at 60mph (NSL on country roads was 70mph back then btw) - your Midget if it's in good condition should easily be able to keep up with 70mph on dual-carriageways and motorways
not that I'm suggesting taking those roads when you don't have to because they're boring roads and the car isn't at its best on them but there's no need to avoid these roads if you have to use them
ETA: you've got the need for oil cooling slightly wrong, see my post above, from the factory oil coolers were not fitted or even offered as an optional extra, it was only later when the engine had got into a bit of a state that many added oil coolers, sorting the primary 'water' cooling would help many of these cars
the B doesn't need an oil cooler either even though they were fitted with one
both cars if they have an oil cooler fitted should also have an oil thermostat fitted or most time throughout the year the oil will be overcooled which doesn't help the oil or engine
Edited by nta16 on Thursday 27th February 11:12
I have a midget albeit with the A series engine and cannot think why your car will not be able to do the trips, provided that it is all in good order. If your experience of these cars is like mine then its never to long between bonnet up moments to ensure all is working as it should, so I cant think why it wont be ok.
Perhaps the 1500 gets bad press as being the weaker of the two types of engine fitted, making you more anxious than you might be, but as per any engine, it will run properly if maintained properly.
Perhaps the 1500 gets bad press as being the weaker of the two types of engine fitted, making you more anxious than you might be, but as per any engine, it will run properly if maintained properly.
Darren (Dbest92) if you actually used your Midget more you'd know what it is capable of and by using it more it would become more capable and so would your driving of it as you built confidence and learn what your Midget could/should/is able to do
when new they weren't bought to be driven at 60mph (NSL on country roads was 70mph back then btw) - your Midget if it's in good condition should easily be able to keep up with 70mph on dual-carriageways and motorways
not that I'm suggesting taking those roads when you don't have to because they're boring roads and the car isn't at its best on them but there's no need to avoid these roads if you have to use them
ETA: you've got the need for oil cooling slightly wrong, see my post above, from the factory oil coolers were not fitted or even offered as an optional extra, it was only later when the engine had got into a bit of a state that many added oil coolers, sorting the primary 'water' cooling would help many of these cars
the B doesn't need an oil cooler either even though they were fitted with one
both cars if they have an oil cooler fitted should also have an oil thermostat fitted or most time throughout the year the oil will be overcooled which doesn't help the oil or engine
when new they weren't bought to be driven at 60mph (NSL on country roads was 70mph back then btw) - your Midget if it's in good condition should easily be able to keep up with 70mph on dual-carriageways and motorways
not that I'm suggesting taking those roads when you don't have to because they're boring roads and the car isn't at its best on them but there's no need to avoid these roads if you have to use them
ETA: you've got the need for oil cooling slightly wrong, see my post above, from the factory oil coolers were not fitted or even offered as an optional extra, it was only later when the engine had got into a bit of a state that many added oil coolers, sorting the primary 'water' cooling would help many of these cars
the B doesn't need an oil cooler either even though they were fitted with one
both cars if they have an oil cooler fitted should also have an oil thermostat fitted or most time throughout the year the oil will be overcooled which doesn't help the oil or engine
Edited by nta16 on Thursday 27th February 15:07
I wasn't saying they won't happily sit at 70 and won't function without an oil cooler but while they would do 70odd it's certainly not a pleasent experience. Living in cornwall most of my driving is B roads so I've never had the need to go that fast.
My midget doesn't have an oil cooler but I have heard that the position of the front crossmember blocks airflow to the sump so when the engines working hard at high speeds the oil isn't cooled properly. With the design of the engine the oil can get too hot and elements of the oil can break down. Obviously this is worst case scenario but as I said it might be worth thinking about depending on how often the car was used on fast roads.
The 1500 is a decent engine despite a lot of criticism but I don't think it's suited to constant motorway speeds, yes it's capable, but it's just not nice
if the midget had an overdrive unit it would be a different story though...
I've no idea why the B has an oil cooler, it's been running too cool over the winter so I've put cardboard around the oil cooler which helped
My midget doesn't have an oil cooler but I have heard that the position of the front crossmember blocks airflow to the sump so when the engines working hard at high speeds the oil isn't cooled properly. With the design of the engine the oil can get too hot and elements of the oil can break down. Obviously this is worst case scenario but as I said it might be worth thinking about depending on how often the car was used on fast roads.
The 1500 is a decent engine despite a lot of criticism but I don't think it's suited to constant motorway speeds, yes it's capable, but it's just not nice
if the midget had an overdrive unit it would be a different story though...I've no idea why the B has an oil cooler, it's been running too cool over the winter so I've put cardboard around the oil cooler which helped
that's a very good point, if you have an oil cooler fitted it needs to be covered during the cooler weather, not just winter
or better still you could fit an oil thermostat
on cars that don't need the oil cooler anyway it could be removed but with many Midget 1500s they are often added because the engine is worn/clogged and/or the 'water' coolant system isn't clear, clean or efficient
when the Midget 1500s were new, and even now for some, they were run for years and tens of thousands of miles of normal driving, including motorways, without the need for an oil cooler or overheating
some owners don't realise how wide the arc of needle can be on the temp guage and think if it goes past 'N' then its overheating
I think you're thinking too much about cooling the oil rather than the engine with that cross member bit, the primary cooling of the engine is by the 'water' coolant system if the oil isn't getting around the engine properly then that wont help either
another couple of months and that BGT will be turning a wheel
or better still you could fit an oil thermostat
on cars that don't need the oil cooler anyway it could be removed but with many Midget 1500s they are often added because the engine is worn/clogged and/or the 'water' coolant system isn't clear, clean or efficient
when the Midget 1500s were new, and even now for some, they were run for years and tens of thousands of miles of normal driving, including motorways, without the need for an oil cooler or overheating
some owners don't realise how wide the arc of needle can be on the temp guage and think if it goes past 'N' then its overheating
I think you're thinking too much about cooling the oil rather than the engine with that cross member bit, the primary cooling of the engine is by the 'water' coolant system if the oil isn't getting around the engine properly then that wont help either
another couple of months and that BGT will be turning a wheel
I think if I wanted a car at home on motorways I would look for something with overdrive. I had a Midget 1275, loved it, it would sit all day @ 70 but not sure I could. Next car was a Sunbeam Alpine 1725 with O/D, not as much fun on the twisties but I could cruise comfortably @ 80.
A better car for me, 4-5hrs a cinch & most of my driving is "A" roads and dual carrigeways.
A better car for me, 4-5hrs a cinch & most of my driving is "A" roads and dual carrigeways.
nta16 said:
the B doesn't need an oil cooler either even though they were fitted with one
both cars if they have an oil cooler fitted should also have an oil thermostat fitted or most time throughout the year the oil will be overcooled which doesn't help the oil or engine
So, are you saying B's don't have a 'stat fitted as standard even though they have a cooler that is sooooo needed in the UK?both cars if they have an oil cooler fitted should also have an oil thermostat fitted or most time throughout the year the oil will be overcooled which doesn't help the oil or engine
Edited by nta16 on Thursday 27th February 15:07
Do I remove the cooler or add a 'stat?
ATE399J said:
So, are you saying B's don't have a 'stat fitted as standard even though they have a cooler that is sooooo needed in the UK?
Do I remove the cooler or add a 'stat?
no, I'm saying it doesn't need an oil cooler unless you do a lot of towing or your engine is above standard performance and if you have oil cooler it should have an oil thermostat fittedDo I remove the cooler or add a 'stat?
obviously the car and engine and 'water' cooling system need be in good condition and working well, the water cooling system needs to have all the components clean, crud and muck free, all working well and in good condition including the coolant/antifreeze
even though the 'water' cooling has a different job it is vital for good running and performance that the 'water' cooling works well
also having the whole car fully and properly serviced and tuned will help with the efficient running of the engine
changing the coolant is often forgotten, clean and flushing out the whole system including the engine block is particularly not done with the engine drain often blocked up with whatever
and often servicing a car just means an oil change and fiddling with carbs to many
plus for many B owners particularly regularly using the car all year round to keep it in good condition is impossible because of their nervous system
if you had an oil thermostat fitted and you felt how warm, or more often cold, the oil hoses were the other side of it you'd get a better idea
btw, when you do an oil change do you empty out the oil cooler and hoses?
I wouldn't be worrying desperately about it - oil cooler is worthwhile, I don't have one in the Spitfire but I have a huge radiator.
Excellent quality oil is well worthwhile in the 1500 engine - my recommendation is Penrite 20W60. Its worth an extra 10PSI on the oil pressure gauge so much less likilihood of oil temperature thinning things out to the extent that the bearings suffer. And thats what people worry about with the 1500 engine.
All that said - not sure why you'ld buy a Midget 1500 when you could just get a proper Spitfire
Excellent quality oil is well worthwhile in the 1500 engine - my recommendation is Penrite 20W60. Its worth an extra 10PSI on the oil pressure gauge so much less likilihood of oil temperature thinning things out to the extent that the bearings suffer. And thats what people worry about with the 1500 engine.
All that said - not sure why you'ld buy a Midget 1500 when you could just get a proper Spitfire
ATE399J said:
Change the oil? You're meant to change the oil? 
if you're a standard tight as a duck's ar*e classic car owner then you can keep putting the oil you've just taken out back in again ATE399J said:
No, don't empty the cooler,
ah, a repository of muck and old oil then 
ATE399J said:
... had to change the pipes last year, a nightmare of a job especially getting the grommets in where the pipes go through the front "bulkhead". Is there a way of doing it without uncoupling the pipes?
yes, cut the pipes fit an oil thermostat (but do look at using the correct oil thermostat)I’m using Mobil 1 Extended Life 10w-60, the 60 part soon drops into the 50 band within a few thousand miles, the 10w part is useful during the coldest parts of winter when my Midget is used – I don’t see many Spits around out of summer
– I did try Mobil 1 New 0w-40 and whilst that was good for performance and winter use as I was warned I did experience a sudden oil pressure drop (after very hard driving and sudden stop on a upward slope)
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