Midget 1500 - thrust bearing?
Discussion
Hi all, after selling my Spitfire I decided to give the competition a try, and bought this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-MIDGET-1500-1976-72-0...
It looks like a tidy car (I'll see it at the end of the week) but the noisy thrust bearing might or might not be a problem.
I'm hoping for an MG expert's opinion about this.... apparently the noise isn't particularly loud or harsh and stops when the clutch is pressed down. I presume that changing the master and slave cylinders was an attempt to fix the problem.
Is this going to mean an imminent engine out job to replace the thrust bearing (and clutch, whilst there) - or will the car run like this for a while before it becomes a problem?
It looks like a tidy car (I'll see it at the end of the week) but the noisy thrust bearing might or might not be a problem.
I'm hoping for an MG expert's opinion about this.... apparently the noise isn't particularly loud or harsh and stops when the clutch is pressed down. I presume that changing the master and slave cylinders was an attempt to fix the problem.
Is this going to mean an imminent engine out job to replace the thrust bearing (and clutch, whilst there) - or will the car run like this for a while before it becomes a problem?
well your making a staged transfer with the Triumph 1500 engined Midget 
I know even less about Midget 1500s than I do A-series engined Spridgets but as no one else has replied yet ...
really more info is required, the sound it makes and where it emanates from
it may not be the release bearing it could be engine or if difficult to get clean gear changes could be wrong parts fitted - or I could be totally wrong
good thing as you know these cars can still be driven when faulty as they usually don't suddenly fall apart (of course this is also a bad thing as many are driven in this state with many owners, even long term ones, not knowing or caring how well the models could or should drive)
to get at the clutch it's engine out AFAIK or remember
the good thing about the MGs is that you can get even more parts, books and information on them that even Triumph
don't assume you know the car ASAP read that Driver's Handbook and refer to it as required as it's full of information you need (for prevention more than repair other than fully servicing schedule and instruction and thinks like how to fold the hood properly, work the heater properly)
I know the Kent lot of the Midget & Sprite Club (MASC) are quite active with some members also on the MG BBS- http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mg... - where you'll find loads of info on the 1500 on the live board and in the Archives
I know even less about Midget 1500s than I do A-series engined Spridgets but as no one else has replied yet ...
really more info is required, the sound it makes and where it emanates from
it may not be the release bearing it could be engine or if difficult to get clean gear changes could be wrong parts fitted - or I could be totally wrong
good thing as you know these cars can still be driven when faulty as they usually don't suddenly fall apart (of course this is also a bad thing as many are driven in this state with many owners, even long term ones, not knowing or caring how well the models could or should drive)
to get at the clutch it's engine out AFAIK or remember
the good thing about the MGs is that you can get even more parts, books and information on them that even Triumph
don't assume you know the car ASAP read that Driver's Handbook and refer to it as required as it's full of information you need (for prevention more than repair other than fully servicing schedule and instruction and thinks like how to fold the hood properly, work the heater properly)
I know the Kent lot of the Midget & Sprite Club (MASC) are quite active with some members also on the MG BBS- http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mg... - where you'll find loads of info on the 1500 on the live board and in the Archives
Edited by nta16 on Wednesday 11th December 20:48
I seem to recall
(much nicer that ISTR)
That the Triumph engined Midgets can have the thrust bearings changed in situ, but I may be wrong. Sump off and centre main cap removed from below.
If the thrust is bad, a reasonably frequent problem on these 1500 engines you can generally test by pulling the bottom pulley a few jerks in and out, more than a couple of thou movement often shows up when levering the pulley in and out too.
As Nigel has already given the 'manual advice' (all good in my opinion) may I suggest you pop across to the MG Enthusiasts BBS for Midgets and Sprites and pose the question there. Lots of genuine expertise and an almost total absence of idiot answers. You may however doubt my comments if Prop answers from Amurricky.
He can be wearing but his heart is OK
I'd have it without a worry, but hey I am a Midget fan.
(much nicer that ISTR)
That the Triumph engined Midgets can have the thrust bearings changed in situ, but I may be wrong. Sump off and centre main cap removed from below.
If the thrust is bad, a reasonably frequent problem on these 1500 engines you can generally test by pulling the bottom pulley a few jerks in and out, more than a couple of thou movement often shows up when levering the pulley in and out too.
As Nigel has already given the 'manual advice' (all good in my opinion) may I suggest you pop across to the MG Enthusiasts BBS for Midgets and Sprites and pose the question there. Lots of genuine expertise and an almost total absence of idiot answers. You may however doubt my comments if Prop answers from Amurricky.
He can be wearing but his heart is OK
I'd have it without a worry, but hey I am a Midget fan.
there you go somebody that knows what they're talking about, and there are others that pass by here
I've probably seen the answers to your question a half dozen times but they'll never stick with me now
I was thinking of an engine rattly thing too but can't remember what and perhaps it's not on the 1500
I'm only good for driver type maintenance and full and proper servicing items and missing words out of posts
I've probably seen the answers to your question a half dozen times but they'll never stick with me now
I was thinking of an engine rattly thing too but can't remember what and perhaps it's not on the 1500
I'm only good for driver type maintenance and full and proper servicing items and missing words out of posts
nta16 said:
well your making a staged transfer with the Triumph 1500 engined Midget
Haha, I like it Thanks for the replies everyone - if anyone else wants to offer advice that would be good - particularly about worn thrust bearings: what the symptoms are, how much to fix, that sort of thing.
my advice is carry out a staged full 36k-mile service/check up plus a few other bits whilst regularly driving the car reasonable distances each journey all the year round
bear in mind there's more to whole car servicing than changing the oil and constantly fiddling with the carbs
I've got a simple thorough coolant cleaning system that might be particularly advantageous to 1500s which are said to have cooling problems so much so that many have oil coolers added rather than sorting the cause of the problem
if yours has an oil cooler fitted then I'd strongly recommend that you add an oil thermostat
some say the oil cooler is difficult to drain on oil changes others say its not
here's something for the release bearing, watch to the end, as with the other 200+ videos even if the info isn't specific to your model the general principles usually apply, plus this will show you why you may not need to give absolute priority to the release bearing (depending on its condition of course) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d173K60GSU8
again Paul Hunt's excellent web site mgb-stuff will have lots of info that applies to Midgets too - http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/hammertext.htm
check the age of the tyres regardless of the tread they have on them, see the DOT codes on this page - http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html
bear in mind there's more to whole car servicing than changing the oil and constantly fiddling with the carbs
I've got a simple thorough coolant cleaning system that might be particularly advantageous to 1500s which are said to have cooling problems so much so that many have oil coolers added rather than sorting the cause of the problem
if yours has an oil cooler fitted then I'd strongly recommend that you add an oil thermostat
some say the oil cooler is difficult to drain on oil changes others say its not
here's something for the release bearing, watch to the end, as with the other 200+ videos even if the info isn't specific to your model the general principles usually apply, plus this will show you why you may not need to give absolute priority to the release bearing (depending on its condition of course) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d173K60GSU8
again Paul Hunt's excellent web site mgb-stuff will have lots of info that applies to Midgets too - http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/hammertext.htm
check the age of the tyres regardless of the tread they have on them, see the DOT codes on this page - http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html
For worn thrust bearings smack the end of the crank pulley with a hammer to seat it against the front face of the thrust bearing. Then get a large screwdriver or pry bar and put behind it and try and pull it forwards. Anything but the smallest movement will indicate thrust bearings. I have seen them so bad that the owner thought his clutch hydraulics had failed somewhere, but in reality the release bearing was just pushing the crankshaft forward to the point it was machining itself through the block without ever releasing the clutch.
As a point never start these cars with the clutch depressed. Loading up the rear of the thrust bearing with no oil pressure will result in very short lifespan.
As a point never start these cars with the clutch depressed. Loading up the rear of the thrust bearing with no oil pressure will result in very short lifespan.
Gents,
I think there is a little bit of confusion creeping in as to the term thrust bearing.
Are we talking "engine thrust washers" which can be fixed by dropping the sump.
or "Clutch thrust or actuating bearing" which needs the engine out to replace.
Checking for crank end float (moving the front pulley fore and aft) will help confirm if the engine thrust washers are worn (or in some cases, missing!). Sometimes just looking at the movement at the pulley when the clutch is pressed will be enough to see movement. Any movement is likely to be a thrust washer problem. There are modifications to prevent them falling out but that is an engine strip down and only to be done as part of a major overhaul.
If the clutch bearing is noisy it will, in most cases, go quiet when the pedal is pressed. An engine out to repair and change the clutch plates whilst you are there. If it is the clutch bearing it could be okay like that for years but would annoy the hell out of me...
Best of.....
MGmike
I think there is a little bit of confusion creeping in as to the term thrust bearing.
Are we talking "engine thrust washers" which can be fixed by dropping the sump.
or "Clutch thrust or actuating bearing" which needs the engine out to replace.
Checking for crank end float (moving the front pulley fore and aft) will help confirm if the engine thrust washers are worn (or in some cases, missing!). Sometimes just looking at the movement at the pulley when the clutch is pressed will be enough to see movement. Any movement is likely to be a thrust washer problem. There are modifications to prevent them falling out but that is an engine strip down and only to be done as part of a major overhaul.
If the clutch bearing is noisy it will, in most cases, go quiet when the pedal is pressed. An engine out to repair and change the clutch plates whilst you are there. If it is the clutch bearing it could be okay like that for years but would annoy the hell out of me...
Best of.....
MGmike
Thanks again everyone, the advice is really appreciated. I'm going to look at the car this weekend, and if the noise turns out to be the clutch release bearing (thanks MGMike - the confusion came from the eBay listing but it does sound like this is what it is) but as long as it's not about to die immediately and there's nothing else significantly wrong with the car I'll buy it. The plan then would be to run the car and get to know it, then if it still seems like a good one have the engine out and put a new clutch in and get various other engine out tasks done whilst the opportunity is there.
Couple more questions though - how can I tell how bad the clutch release bearing is? I'm guessing that noise and/or vibration through the clutch pedal might give an indication.
Is there any easy way to check whether any noises are actually due to gearbox wear?
Couple more questions though - how can I tell how bad the clutch release bearing is? I'm guessing that noise and/or vibration through the clutch pedal might give an indication.
Is there any easy way to check whether any noises are actually due to gearbox wear?
16simon said:
Is there any easy way to check whether any noises are actually due to gearbox wear?
I'm answering my own question here, but this is for the benefit of anyone who has a similar problem and finds this thread. I had a chat to Peter from RW Services in north London today - really friendly and not only took the time to offer lots of advice about the car but also gave me his mobile number in case I need advice about the car when he's not at work over the weekend.Apparently if the noise stops with light pressure on the clutch it's probably the release bearing but if it only stops when the clutch is fully depressed then it's probably an issue with the gearbox.
He quoted a very good price to replace the clutch and is local to me so if I get the car it'll be going to him to be fixed
well the price did seem low to me, you get less for your money than with a Triumph
I always recommend test driving a couple of good mechanical examples even if they are out of your price budget so that you know how good the model could or should be as that also tells you how far off any others that you try
I always recommend test driving a couple of good mechanical examples even if they are out of your price budget so that you know how good the model could or should be as that also tells you how far off any others that you try
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