MGB Starter Issues and Questions
Discussion
Hi All
One of my first posts on PH, and my first on the MG section as I’m more a Corvette person! (sorry!)
Anyway, I have a friend nearby who is getting on a bit in years and cannot do as much on his MGB as he’d like.
The car has developed a starting issue, despite a new battery (its converted to one) the starter turns only slowly and will not start the car. We’re thinking the starter is past it, but I want to first clean all the terminals and check out the points etc as the car hasn’t been started for a while.
So, a few questions that someone on here may know the answers to please.
First, is it best to drop the starter from under the car and can that be done with the filter and dissy in place?
Where is best to jack the car (with a trolley jack) and then put axle stands before getting under?
If we find that cleaning will not bring it to life, my friend is thinking of a Hi-Torq starter. Are these a straight swap with the original (inertia type) or will it need some “adjustment” of wiring etc?
Any info or advice welcome as its along time since I worked on a “B series” and an MGB in particularly!
Thanks.
One of my first posts on PH, and my first on the MG section as I’m more a Corvette person! (sorry!)
Anyway, I have a friend nearby who is getting on a bit in years and cannot do as much on his MGB as he’d like.
The car has developed a starting issue, despite a new battery (its converted to one) the starter turns only slowly and will not start the car. We’re thinking the starter is past it, but I want to first clean all the terminals and check out the points etc as the car hasn’t been started for a while.
So, a few questions that someone on here may know the answers to please.
First, is it best to drop the starter from under the car and can that be done with the filter and dissy in place?
Where is best to jack the car (with a trolley jack) and then put axle stands before getting under?
If we find that cleaning will not bring it to life, my friend is thinking of a Hi-Torq starter. Are these a straight swap with the original (inertia type) or will it need some “adjustment” of wiring etc?
Any info or advice welcome as its along time since I worked on a “B series” and an MGB in particularly!
Thanks.
If the engine is turning slowly you may find that the engine earth strap is old/has high resistance/poor engine to body connection. This is above the gearbox. Check first and/or install a new earthing strap.
Where engine/car has not been ran for some time don't just check points, check ALL the ignition CCT.
Yes drop starter from under car. It's tight but is do-able. The starter motor should have a plastic cover. The cover becomes deformed and hard over time and can be awkward to remove. If this is the case carefully heat up with heat gun to become more pliable.
If starter is genuinely faulty most lightweight/hi-torque type units are direct installs. If changing over be sure to check/renew wiring. It's pointless installing a new super-dooper starter if wiring's in poor condition.
>>Where is best to jack the car (with a trolley jack) and then put axle stands before getting under?<<
Should we be conerned that you/friend do not know where to safely jack and axle stand a car?? If so, you should not be doing this.
Where engine/car has not been ran for some time don't just check points, check ALL the ignition CCT.
Yes drop starter from under car. It's tight but is do-able. The starter motor should have a plastic cover. The cover becomes deformed and hard over time and can be awkward to remove. If this is the case carefully heat up with heat gun to become more pliable.
If starter is genuinely faulty most lightweight/hi-torque type units are direct installs. If changing over be sure to check/renew wiring. It's pointless installing a new super-dooper starter if wiring's in poor condition.
>>Where is best to jack the car (with a trolley jack) and then put axle stands before getting under?<<
Should we be conerned that you/friend do not know where to safely jack and axle stand a car?? If so, you should not be doing this.
to be fair where to put the jack on these cars does seem a bit odd now
as for non starting as has been said but I'd add even if the battery is new (unless just put on new) it could be low so that's where I'd start but taking the the starter off would be bottom of my list
earths are a favorite and the one to body and engine or g/box need to be a good clean and protected connections if it's a rubber bumper model it might have another earth strap too
starting from the battery clamps and leads to solenoid to starter check all are clean secure and protected
after this is the usual why it wont start checks
I had an elderly neighbour that used to frequently charge his battery despite me telling him it didn't need it and when I checked the cells were almost dry
as for non starting as has been said but I'd add even if the battery is new (unless just put on new) it could be low so that's where I'd start but taking the the starter off would be bottom of my list
earths are a favorite and the one to body and engine or g/box need to be a good clean and protected connections if it's a rubber bumper model it might have another earth strap too
starting from the battery clamps and leads to solenoid to starter check all are clean secure and protected
after this is the usual why it wont start checks
I had an elderly neighbour that used to frequently charge his battery despite me telling him it didn't need it and when I checked the cells were almost dry
Er yes, as I said, Corvettes are my area of expertise now, and they have a full chassis. So I was seeking confirmation of the “safe” parts of the MBG frame to jack and support the car with.
Re the engine-to-chassis earth strap, which side chassis leg does that run to from the bell housing?
It’s been 30+ years since I worked regularly on B series engines, and even then not MGs……
We’re obviously going through the “basics” first.
Re the engine-to-chassis earth strap, which side chassis leg does that run to from the bell housing?
It’s been 30+ years since I worked regularly on B series engines, and even then not MGs……
We’re obviously going through the “basics” first.
na said:
to be fair where to put the jack on these cars does seem a bit odd now
as for non starting as has been said but I'd add even if the battery is new (unless just put on new) it could be low so that's where I'd start but taking the the starter off would be bottom of my list
earths are a favorite and the one to body and engine or g/box need to be a good clean and protected connections if it's a rubber bumper model it might have another earth strap too
starting from the battery clamps and leads to solenoid to starter check all are clean secure and protected
+1 to above. ref' jacking i'm always concerned when hearing/reading when someone asks this question. this from having to seen a chap jack up a MKII Jag using the sills as for non starting as has been said but I'd add even if the battery is new (unless just put on new) it could be low so that's where I'd start but taking the the starter off would be bottom of my list
earths are a favorite and the one to body and engine or g/box need to be a good clean and protected connections if it's a rubber bumper model it might have another earth strap too
starting from the battery clamps and leads to solenoid to starter check all are clean secure and protected
OP, all cars must only be jacked-up at stuctural points designed for purpose. one can lift using front crossmembers, chassis rails etc, but always make sure the car is balanced when using a trolley jack. As you've yet to reply and in the hope you'll be okay under the MGB...raise as follows:
With car on solid level ground, centrally place trolley lift cup under front cross member and lift to good working height. Place axle stands [secured with cross pins in place!!] under front of chassis members/rails with a piece of 1" wood between the axle stand cup and the chassis rail. Gently release trolley jack until full weight of car is safely on axle stands [check axle stands feet are firmly flat on the ground!!], then, lock-on the trolley jack keeping jack in place under front cross member. This will give you a very stable tri-point base at front of car. Put handbrake on and car in first gear. Check car is absolutely stable before getting under to work; rock car to be certain...it should be rock solid. If your trolley jack is one of those low-cost 2tonne cheap-o DIY units jack car slowly as they are not overly stable. If you have a 3tonne wide base unit use this. To lower is this reverse of the above, but, chock front of rear wheels after putting in neutral and releasing handbrake to stop car rolling forward when lowering trolley jack. Unless experienced, do not work under/around the car alone. I do hope you know what you're doing??
Reddwarf said:
Er yes, as I said, Corvettes are my area of expertise now, and they have a full chassis. So I was seeking confirmation of the “safe” parts of the MBG frame to jack and support the car with.
Re the engine-to-chassis earth strap, which side chassis leg does that run to from the bell housing?
It’s been 30+ years since I worked regularly on B series engines, and even then not MGs……
We’re obviously going through the “basics” first.
Reddwarf, you're getting me worried. The earth strap does not run from the bell housing; it's from the gearbox crossmember to to body. When you safely get under the car shine your inspection lamp up towards the gearbox tunnel and look above the gearbox crossmember.Re the engine-to-chassis earth strap, which side chassis leg does that run to from the bell housing?
It’s been 30+ years since I worked regularly on B series engines, and even then not MGs……
We’re obviously going through the “basics” first.
Are you/the car based in Oxfordshire?? Pay me and I'll do the job for you. Rather this than lose an MGB owner.
v8250 - you're making a classic mistake (and I got a pun in) 
you're assuming the car is as it it should be rather than as it is or could be, I'm pretty sure I've seen earth straps go from bell housing to body (can't remember if it's on B or Spridgets though)
OP v8250 normally the good to my nasty cop we must both have decided to change rolls and without consulting each other
the Driver's Handbook with help you with loads as will this web site - http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/hometext.htm
there are even photos in this forum somewhere of the earth straps fitted locations, I only recently deleted them from my stock
ETA: how about using suitable jump leads to a known and tested good battery to eliminate earth and battery (and leads/connection) issues to see how well the starter goes then (assuming the starter is bolted up tight) put earth lead close to starter
PPS: whilst I was adding my edit jagracer has put his alternative
you're assuming the car is as it it should be rather than as it is or could be, I'm pretty sure I've seen earth straps go from bell housing to body (can't remember if it's on B or Spridgets though)
OP v8250 normally the good to my nasty cop we must both have decided to change rolls and without consulting each other
the Driver's Handbook with help you with loads as will this web site - http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/hometext.htm
there are even photos in this forum somewhere of the earth straps fitted locations, I only recently deleted them from my stock
ETA: how about using suitable jump leads to a known and tested good battery to eliminate earth and battery (and leads/connection) issues to see how well the starter goes then (assuming the starter is bolted up tight) put earth lead close to starter
PPS: whilst I was adding my edit jagracer has put his alternative
Edited by na on Saturday 17th November 12:47
v8250 said:
Reddwarf, you're getting me worried. The earth strap does not run from the bell housing; it's from the gearbox crossmember to to body. When you safely get under the car shine your inspection lamp up towards the gearbox tunnel and look above the gearbox crossmember.
Are you/the car based in Oxfordshire?? Pay me and I'll do the job for you. Rather this than lose an MGB owner.
The one on mine runs from the back of the engine to the body on the nearside. OP try running a jump lead from the battery - terminal to somewhere on the engine, I had the same problem with my car after it hadn't been run for seven years but by putting a direct earth to the engine it spun the engine quickly and started within a couple of turns. Also check the earth from the battery to the chassis.Are you/the car based in Oxfordshire?? Pay me and I'll do the job for you. Rather this than lose an MGB owner.
jagracer said:
he one on mine runs from the back of the engine to the body on the nearside. OP try running a jump lead from the battery - terminal to somewhere on the engine, I had the same problem with my car after it hadn't been run for seven years but by putting a direct earth to the engine it spun the engine quickly and started within a couple of turns. Also check the earth from the battery to the chassis.
All this is good advice...though concerned that if the OP is not certain of jacking points will he know what to look for at battery-to-body -Ve / installing a new engine to body earth strap with correct type of earthing cable? I know I'm sounding somewhat pedant-like here but with uncertainty to jacking + cranking currents = potential recipe for disaster.I don't know the answer to this but are there any official factory recommended jacking points other than the frightening ones when used with the official jack that leans away from the car as you raise pivoted on its slim base
my Spridget is jacked at the rear on the rear axle drain plug unless padded out and I remember the Bs being the same not even a great idea when using a 'lorry jack'
I was looking at a lift yesterday that lifted the car by the cills with a thin rubberish(?) thread plate cover, I'd be worried that the car might slip as it was a centre pivoted tilt type
my Spridget is jacked at the rear on the rear axle drain plug unless padded out and I remember the Bs being the same not even a great idea when using a 'lorry jack'
I was looking at a lift yesterday that lifted the car by the cills with a thin rubberish(?) thread plate cover, I'd be worried that the car might slip as it was a centre pivoted tilt type
hi nigel, the issue here is knowing where to safely lift any car at any time. the OP asked the question...anyone who does not instinctively know/understand in lifting a car quickly and safely should not be doing it; full stop. i know i'm sounding like an old fart here but i've seen guys run like hell when they had not raised a car properly and the wondered why it toppled. also, watched people raise a car on soft ground without support plates underneath...neadless to say the axle stands gave way. frankly, it's bloody dangerous being under a 1-2tonne vehicle without knowing precisely what you're doing.
for me as an engineer it's second nature knowing where to lift, making sure what you're lifting is solid, using logical mechanical advantage, and making it all perfectly safe. it's the small things that really count like knowing why to use 1" thick wood between axle stands and chassis, or, why use an old rag in the cup of the trolley jack.
i guess we'll hear back from OP should he have problems or when the job's done.
for me as an engineer it's second nature knowing where to lift, making sure what you're lifting is solid, using logical mechanical advantage, and making it all perfectly safe. it's the small things that really count like knowing why to use 1" thick wood between axle stands and chassis, or, why use an old rag in the cup of the trolley jack.
i guess we'll hear back from OP should he have problems or when the job's done.
I had a simply problem with my MGA after a engine rebuild.The starter was turning the new engine over very slow.The check list. Battery/terminal posts/Starter removed and bench tested/fit new starter pull switch/new earth strap-body to starter.Turned out to be a broken solder joint on the battery terminal -IE a bad connection!
Ok, some helpful advice here about which part is where, and finally, the safest place to jack besides the extremely risky “factory” jacking points.
V8250 - Seeking the correct methods on working on a particular vehicle does not imply a lack of mechanical skill, just good sense. Yes, I know all about working under heavy cars – try removing the entire rear end of a Corvette – assuming you’d know where to begin! If I was an “amateur” I’d no doubt risk lifting the car on the uni-body.
Just to wrap this up, the car’s owner has tried the “quick fix” jump leads etc, but we’re looking for the long term problem/cure before making a starter swap, not just to get the car running. Normally I’d put in on ramps or a lift to have a good look underneath, but the cars location rules that out at the moment.
Anyway, thanks for the useful info – I now have a starting point (that’s my pun!)
V8250 - Seeking the correct methods on working on a particular vehicle does not imply a lack of mechanical skill, just good sense. Yes, I know all about working under heavy cars – try removing the entire rear end of a Corvette – assuming you’d know where to begin! If I was an “amateur” I’d no doubt risk lifting the car on the uni-body.
Just to wrap this up, the car’s owner has tried the “quick fix” jump leads etc, but we’re looking for the long term problem/cure before making a starter swap, not just to get the car running. Normally I’d put in on ramps or a lift to have a good look underneath, but the cars location rules that out at the moment.
Anyway, thanks for the useful info – I now have a starting point (that’s my pun!)
having a single battery helps, I'd start as I've put above plus having a good look at the condition of that long 'hot' (for State side enthusiasts) cable from the battery, it could even be in poor condition unseen under the insulation at that end particularly
the easy basic checks aren't sexy or clever to figure out but they are often overlooked or not done thoroughly which means the problem is never fully resolved
in the end it might turn out to be the starter in which case a recon or new standard one would be fine for a standard car that isn't used much - personally I prefer the hi-torque starters and have one fitted but they are expensive and still quite heavy, IIRC years ago much smaller and lighter Japanese starters where used instead (but I might have a false memory of this?)
as I said also if the chap has already got one a copy of the Driver's Handbook will be a great time and money saving investment of only £8
good luck, let us know how you get on
the easy basic checks aren't sexy or clever to figure out but they are often overlooked or not done thoroughly which means the problem is never fully resolved
in the end it might turn out to be the starter in which case a recon or new standard one would be fine for a standard car that isn't used much - personally I prefer the hi-torque starters and have one fitted but they are expensive and still quite heavy, IIRC years ago much smaller and lighter Japanese starters where used instead (but I might have a false memory of this?)
as I said also if the chap has already got one a copy of the Driver's Handbook will be a great time and money saving investment of only £8
good luck, let us know how you get on
v8250 said:
hi nigel, . . . then what you put
no way was I having a go about you stressing the safety aspect, I hate working under axle stands and often spend more time sorting those out than doing the jobit was just that to me it seemed you were doing what I sometimes do and unintentionally coming across in a different way to what was intended
(of course sometimes I do intend to stir thing up just for the devilment of it as some are just so easy to play with, am I a bad person for doing so, yeah but it's fun)
na said:
o way was I having a go about you stressing the safety aspect, I hate working under axle stands and often spend more time sorting those out than doing the job
it was just that to me it seemed you were doing what I sometimes do and unintentionally coming across in a different way to what was intended
(of course sometimes I do intend to stir thing up just for the devilment of it as some are just so easy to play with, am I a bad person for doing so, yeah but it's fun)
hi nigel, not read as having a go. know what you mean spending time properly sorting the axle stands...yesterday gave the subaru a thorough servicing. they have no central lifting point at the front so have to lift from side...this often drags the car sideways on second lift, lifting axle stand legs which can be a little daunting at times until stands 3&4 are in place. i really need a 4-arm lift.it was just that to me it seemed you were doing what I sometimes do and unintentionally coming across in a different way to what was intended
(of course sometimes I do intend to stir thing up just for the devilment of it as some are just so easy to play with, am I a bad person for doing so, yeah but it's fun)
reddwarf, how are you getting on...is the old girl running yet??
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