Yet another new model...

[Gaspode]

...next year apparently we'll see a +4 Supersports. 200bhp, trad format. Lawks!

[GLLHG]

I'd be very interested to know on what info this post is based?
As a general comment, if it is going to be based on the current, Duratec -engined +4, then 200 BHP is hardly going to set the world alight

Most reputable tuners ( admittedly in cars such as the Caterham rather than a Morgan) would quote you up to 350 BHP and it's possible to get a Cosworth crate engine which will produce circa 300+

Let's not forget that the original TR -engined, LawrenceTune/ Jack Brabham Supersports really was a step up from the standard car. I hope MMC aren't going down the 'badge- engineering' route here.
GLLHG

Edited by GLLHG on Friday 12th November 23:55

[Gaspode]

GLLHG said:

I'd be very interested to know on what info this post is based?
As a general comment, if it is going to be based on the current, Duratec -engined +4, then 200 BHP is hardly going to set the world alight

60th anniversary edition, limited to 60 cars. 200 bhp in a c850kg trad is plenty for usable road fun, I would have thought - it's about what the 4.6 +8 put out in stock form, and no-one ever accused them of being slow :-)

[GLLHG]

Gaspode said:

GLLHG said:

I'd be very interested to know on what info this post is based?
As a general comment, if it is going to be based on the current, Duratec -engined +4, then 200 BHP is hardly going to set the world alight

60th anniversary edition, limited to 60 cars. 200 bhp in a c850kg trad is plenty for usable road fun, I would have thought - it's about what the 4.6 +8 put out in stock form, and no-one ever accused them of being slow :-)

Funnily enough, shortly after I put the post up I came acros Allon White's newsletter detailing this. On the one hand, I wouldn't disagree that 200 BHP is plenty ( figures for the 'standard' + 4 are about 145, if I remember rightly?)

I think the one difference which everybody will ( and would expect to) find between the S/S + 4 and, say the later +8s would be the obvious one of much less mid- range torque ( which for my money is realy what makes the 'eight' such a stunnning car to drive!)

On the other hand, as MMC themselves have said, for a number of reasons, - notably emissions etc.- the days of large capacity V8 Morgans will end with the Aero SS.
Still, there's always the 'Vette Z06


G

PS
There always seems to have been some controversy about exactly what the figures WERE for the 4.6 litre + 8. Dealers were listing the 4.6's power at 194.4bhp with 260ft/lb of torque. On the other hand somebody (Lorne Goldman, I think,) has suggested that according to Land Rover themselves the figures were 218bhp and 300 ft/lb of torque.

Edited by GLLHG on Monday 15th November 18:47

[Graemsay]

Wouldn't the 300+ bhp figures be referring to forced induction engines? Few naturally aspirated engines do, though I see that the Caterham R500 kicks out 263 bhp.

Still, you're looking at something with the power of a V6 Roadster in a lighter package. And I'm a real fan of the old '60s Supersport.

My only worries are whether or not I'd fit into one, and be able to afford one...

[GLLHG]

Graemsay said:

Wouldn't the 300+ bhp figures be referring to forced induction engines? Few naturally aspirated engines do, though I see that the Caterham R500 kicks out 263 bhp.

Still, you're looking at something with the power of a V6 Roadster in a lighter package. And I'm a real fan of the old '60s Supersport.

My only worries are whether or not I'd fit into one, and be able to afford one...

No, people like SBD Motorsport ( http://www.sbdev.co.uk )

will quite confidently quote 300bhp from a normally- aspirated unit and if you talk to them in person, they will admit that they can go beyond this. OK, I know we're talking a racing engine here but it shows what can be done and puts the Plus 4 Superpsort figures into perspective

As to the money- my own feeling at the mo is that nearly 50k is a lot of money to pay for a car which essentially still only has a 4 cylinder Ford Engine ( and I say ONLY because the torque figure that MMC will talk about don't seem THAT good) in the mid range.

Size and fitting wise, I'm 6'3" and 17stones and I drive a 4/4 without any problems. ( Although I have lowered the seats to avoid wind buffeting) My only small gripe ( and this is a distinctive feature of the Trads) is that the pedal box is very tight, so I have to make sure I wear narrow shoes!
HTH
G

[cerealsurfer]

GLLHG said:

Graemsay said:

Wouldn't the 300+ bhp figures be referring to forced induction engines? Few naturally aspirated engines do, though I see that the Caterham R500 kicks out 263 bhp.

Still, you're looking at something with the power of a V6 Roadster in a lighter package. And I'm a real fan of the old '60s Supersport.

My only worries are whether or not I'd fit into one, and be able to afford one...

No, people like SBD Motorsport ( http://www.sbdev.co.uk )

will quite confidently quote 300bhp from a normally- aspirated unit and if you talk to them in person, they will admit that they can go beyond this. OK, I know we're talking a racing engine here but it shows what can be done and puts the Plus 4 Superpsort figures into perspective

As to the money- my own feeling at the mo is that nearly 50k is a lot of money to pay for a car which essentially still only has a 4 cylinder Ford Engine ( and I say ONLY because the torque figure that MMC will talk about don't seem THAT good) in the mid range.

Size and fitting wise, I'm 6'3" and 17stones and I drive a 4/4 without any problems. ( Although I have lowered the seats to avoid wind buffeting) My only small gripe ( and this is a distinctive feature of the Trads) is that the pedal box is very tight, so I have to make sure I wear narrow shoes!
HTH
G

There will be a 300+bhp trad 2.3 Duratec out in the Morgan Speed Championship next year... there is currently a 230bhp Zetec 4/4 (on twin 40's!!) campaigning this year. imagine that on 45's, 48's or even full injection.

These cars are quick.... seriously quick.

I think part of the human aspect is Brass "somethings" given it's 1930's everywhere else on the trad!

That said... 150bhp target for me next year and more after that with a Zetec conversion in the offing.

BTW.. the Zetec is very tracktable and is easily used on the road... given that an old CVH 4/4 is reletively cheap, you can purchase a 4/4 (no need for cats either) and plonk in a decent Zetec for £5k, Minilites for £600ish, brakes for £600 and even add the lowline look for £1.5k. (walk away £20k still in your pocket).

Edited by cerealsurfer on Tuesday 23 November 13:57

[GLLHG]

[quote=cerealsurferThere will be a 300+bhp trad 2.3 Duratec out in the Morgan Speed Championship next year... there is currently a 230bhp Zetec 4/4 (on twin 40's!!) campaigning this year. imagine that on 45's, 48's or even full injection.

Andrew,
I wonder who that might be then?
regards,
G

[Graemsay]

More details on the Supersports have gone up at the Richard Thorne website.



I still want one.

[1560]

guys,
don't mix up RACE engines with ROAD engines,

Race engines are "mapped" to work wel above 5500rpm
and are OFTEN horrible to drive under 4000rpm!!!!!!!!

[GLLHG]

1560 said:

guys,
don't mix up RACE engines with ROAD engines,

Race engines are "mapped" to work wel above 5500rpm
and are OFTEN horrible to drive under 4000rpm!!!!!!!!

The 'supersports' is, IMHO a sheep in wolf's clothing My reasons are as follows:

What you are NOT buying here is a car with an engine which has been seriosuly reworked. OK, from all the info the top end/head have been played with but it's still on what, to me at least, is a fairly standard Ford bottom end
We all know the old story, " do lots of fancy stuff to the head and top end and then suddenly the short engine can't take it and everything goes boom"
When, oh when, are MMC going to stop 'milking'their back catalogue with these silly Limited Edition creations. It really is getting beyond a joke now.
G

[AeroMan]

GLLHG said:

It really is getting beyond a joke now.

I do love your consistency G









P.S. TBH I don't like this Plus 4 SS either!

[GLLHG]

AeroMan said:

I do love your consistency G









P.S. TBH I don't like this Plus 4 SS either!

Brian,
You say the nicest things! More seriously, I know I have a thing about this LE stuff but it really does worry me, OK MMC are a business and they have to remain profitable in what are testing times but some of this stuff is verging on the tacky and I believe it's not winning them many friends.

For me ( and perhaps lots of others?) it has uncomfortable connations with those large manufacturers who did similar things with iconic labels and cheapened them in the process
My old man had an original SS and I can hear him spinning in his grave as I write this

I am now going to go to my garage and put a go-faster sticker on my trad!
Regards,
G

Edited by GLLHG on Tuesday 1st February 18:34

[Plus Faw]

Gerwyn,
I share most of what you said, but the thought of bolting on some throttle bodies to my plus4 and liberating some 30 - 40 more ponies has a certain attraction!! If developing this 4SS means this sort of upgrade becomes readily available then it has at least done something.

Cheers!

Robbie

[GLLHG]

Plus Faw said:

Gerwyn,
I share most of what you said, but the thought of bolting on some throttle bodies to my plus4 and liberating some 30 - 40 more ponies has a certain attraction!! If developing this 4SS means this sort of upgrade becomes readily available then it has at least done something.

Cheers!

Robbie

Robbie,
I'm with you on the extra horses- I'm always a little bit peeved that even in standard form the same engine is always quoted lower when installed in a Mog than in, say, a Caterfield.

Having looked long and hard at this issue of extra power via induction upgrades, I've also come to the conclusion that packaging problems mean that playing with the existing plenum set up is only tinkering about the edges and the only real way to get significant increase is to go to individual throttle bodies and run something like an Omex ECU. I'd also upgrade the bottom end but that is a persoal thing
Also, rather than 'buying in' via the new SS, I think I'd much rather do it by talking to someone like Jenvey's (http://www.jenvey.co.uk/) and getting a good tuner to rework the head. To me, not only would it be less expensive but -and I admit I'm going very much on basic information and what I've seen of the competition version of the 4/4 Sport-I'd also feel it was a better job.

Cheers,
G

[Boshly]

Plus Faw said:

Gerwyn,
I share most of what you said, but the thought of bolting on some throttle bodies to my plus4 and liberating some 30 - 40 more ponies has a certain attraction!! If developing this 4SS means this sort of upgrade becomes readily available then it has at least done something.

Cheers!

Robbie

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