is there room here for a lotus owner?
Discussion
At 63 I dont reckon I'm old enough yet to take up Morgans or golf (only joking ;-) ) but the spotty yoofs who infest the Lotus forums are getting really irritating. Why is it that such a trully excellent car as the Elise attracts so many power crazed weight obsessed (car not them) young men interested in pimping their rides?
Anyway here I am looking for adult petrolhead conversation.
So to start off - what do you reckon are the pro/cons of the sliding pillar front suspension on the Moggie. Why do they keep a system that other makers dropped along with crash gearboxes, worm and roller steering etc? Does it wear badly if not greased regularly - a process that itself is a bit of an anachronism. Or am I missing the point, and the whole idea is to have something old fashioned?
Anyway here I am looking for adult petrolhead conversation.
So to start off - what do you reckon are the pro/cons of the sliding pillar front suspension on the Moggie. Why do they keep a system that other makers dropped along with crash gearboxes, worm and roller steering etc? Does it wear badly if not greased regularly - a process that itself is a bit of an anachronism. Or am I missing the point, and the whole idea is to have something old fashioned?
bordseye said:
Or am I missing the point, and the whole idea is to have something old fashioned?
I can tell you why I bought my first Morgan. In the 80s I liked the Jaguar XK 120 very much, and I still do, but I wanted a reliable 'classic' car. I decided for the +8 because I like the looks and somehow it is still an 'old' car and the MMC did not change much. Most things they changed they had to change for environmental or safety reasons. There was no reason to change the front axle. There have been modifications, the one-shot-oiler is gone, but more or less it is still the same. I had two cars I sold close to 50,000 km and the king pins were still perfect. Greasing the front every 1,000 miles is not a big deal. I do hope I will be able to buy more of these cars as close to the original as possible. For example I would not like a Lotus chassis with a Morgan body even if it drove much better.Hi!
I bought mine as a 'cheat' way to enjoy a classic car without the cost and hassle of an older one. Cheap to run and insure, great fun as a daily runabout. New 'trad' cars don't need to have the front suspension greased as often, and ride & handling fine with old style front end. It has been said that sliding pillars have the advantage of keeping the modern wide tyres parallell to the road.
HOWEVER there are two main styles of car available - the 'traditional' still based on the original (available currently as a 1600, 2000 and V6 3000), and the Aero 8's - brand new modern chassis with a whopping big BMW V8 stuffed in; rather a different beastie. Addicts of each can exist happily together without too much 'pulling of pigtails', and are in general all very friendly and welcoming. If a bit mad. (A result of Brain-Freeze from all that topless driving?).
I chose the + 4 (2 litre) as I was happy with that level of power in the old chassis based on my driving abilities. Would happily go for the larger engine if the trad body came on a more modern set up, and am not alone in this.
It would be worth looking closely at both options to see which suits you more...
I bought mine as a 'cheat' way to enjoy a classic car without the cost and hassle of an older one. Cheap to run and insure, great fun as a daily runabout. New 'trad' cars don't need to have the front suspension greased as often, and ride & handling fine with old style front end. It has been said that sliding pillars have the advantage of keeping the modern wide tyres parallell to the road.
HOWEVER there are two main styles of car available - the 'traditional' still based on the original (available currently as a 1600, 2000 and V6 3000), and the Aero 8's - brand new modern chassis with a whopping big BMW V8 stuffed in; rather a different beastie. Addicts of each can exist happily together without too much 'pulling of pigtails', and are in general all very friendly and welcoming. If a bit mad. (A result of Brain-Freeze from all that topless driving?).
I chose the + 4 (2 litre) as I was happy with that level of power in the old chassis based on my driving abilities. Would happily go for the larger engine if the trad body came on a more modern set up, and am not alone in this.
It would be worth looking closely at both options to see which suits you more...
Edited by Paul Hurst on Thursday 5th March 12:35
Bordseye..
The sliding pillar front suspension really does come into it's own on the track.. it's actually a very lightweight set-up which at speed provides a way to avoid suspension sweep (the arc the tyre moves through) found in other suspension arrangements. It might not be perfect but it has it's advantages.
As for the steering, again simple and lightweight. That said you would not mix components between a trad car and the Aero for instance.. there are very different operating conditions and the torque & heat would simply be a too higher duty cycle.
I think what you have found is a Gentlemen's sports automobile. It just happens to be a throwback from a bygone era.
The sliding pillar front suspension really does come into it's own on the track.. it's actually a very lightweight set-up which at speed provides a way to avoid suspension sweep (the arc the tyre moves through) found in other suspension arrangements. It might not be perfect but it has it's advantages.
As for the steering, again simple and lightweight. That said you would not mix components between a trad car and the Aero for instance.. there are very different operating conditions and the torque & heat would simply be a too higher duty cycle.
I think what you have found is a Gentlemen's sports automobile. It just happens to be a throwback from a bygone era.
Edited by cerealsurfer on Thursday 5th March 18:50
Edited by cerealsurfer on Thursday 5th March 18:50
Well I suppose that I'm a throwback from a different era, but I still remember the old cars and am glad we have made progress. I had a Triumph Stag for 30 years and reliability apart it was a good representative of what 1970s cars were like. Everytime I drove it (and that wasnt too often) it reminded me how good modern cars were. Bit the same with the modern bikes I had compared to my old Norton Commando.
I guess really that it depends on how you want to drive and I do like the arms straight driving position and the flickability of the Lotus. But having said that I've never actually driven a Morgan so for all the world it might be just the same - steering position apart.
Do Morgan owners go in for tuning their cars or are most of them left standard?
I guess really that it depends on how you want to drive and I do like the arms straight driving position and the flickability of the Lotus. But having said that I've never actually driven a Morgan so for all the world it might be just the same - steering position apart.
Do Morgan owners go in for tuning their cars or are most of them left standard?
bordseye said:
Well I suppose that I'm a throwback from a different era, but I still remember the old cars and am glad we have made progress. I had a Triumph Stag for 30 years and reliability apart it was a good representative of what 1970s cars were like. Everytime I drove it (and that wasnt too often) it reminded me how good modern cars were. Bit the same with the modern bikes I had compared to my old Norton Commando.
I guess really that it depends on how you want to drive and I do like the arms straight driving position and the flickability of the Lotus. But having said that I've never actually driven a Morgan so for all the world it might be just the same - steering position apart.
Do Morgan owners go in for tuning their cars or are most of them left standard?
Most Morgan owners tend to "customise" with different brightwork. The engines do get tuned especially the Rover V8 variants as it's pretty straight forward. Depends on the person, there are some pretty mad Morgans out there. There is a 250bhp 70's 4/4 competing in last years Sprint... yikes. So they do exist but don't tend to come up for sale often.I guess really that it depends on how you want to drive and I do like the arms straight driving position and the flickability of the Lotus. But having said that I've never actually driven a Morgan so for all the world it might be just the same - steering position apart.
Do Morgan owners go in for tuning their cars or are most of them left standard?
bordseye said:
Well I suppose that I'm a throwback from a different era, but I still remember the old cars and am glad we have made progress. I had a Triumph Stag for 30 years and reliability apart it was a good representative of what 1970s cars were like. Everytime I drove it (and that wasnt too often) it reminded me how good modern cars were. Bit the same with the modern bikes I had compared to my old Norton Commando.
I guess really that it depends on how you want to drive and I do like the arms straight driving position and the flickability of the Lotus. But having said that I've never actually driven a Morgan so for all the world it might be just the same - steering position apart.
Do Morgan owners go in for tuning their cars or are most of them left standard?
I absolutely agree with your comments - the 'classic' originals are, and were, rubbish to drive in their original state. But equally the modern car has become rather less involving for the driver - all those driver aids often make it into a point and squirt machine with little skill or input required. I guess really that it depends on how you want to drive and I do like the arms straight driving position and the flickability of the Lotus. But having said that I've never actually driven a Morgan so for all the world it might be just the same - steering position apart.
Do Morgan owners go in for tuning their cars or are most of them left standard?
A Morgan gives back the driver involvement while having tyres and mechanicals that work (for the most part). And, unless you are very large, the steering position can be quite acceptable with a bit of adjustment.
Certainly a lot of owners add shiny bits - not sure how many go in for enhancing the engines. But then the whole driving experience is much more raw and amplified than in, say, an Elise so you don't need the same speeds to get the same emotional response....
Definitely worth a drive, if only to see if your instinctive prejudices are correct.
bordseye said:
Maybe if the 50 proposal goes through and I need to slow down a bit. But do you really get on with the arms bent / wheel almost against your chest driving position?
50 proposal?I don't think you'll find that you need to slow down... And I prefer a reclined, arms slightly bent driving position (but have had to alter the seat signifcantly to get there - but it was worth it).
Thing is you're arguing from a position of ignorance and are rather overcome by the perceived inadequacies of the format - it's really not until you have tried it that you will see whether it works for you (and it doesn't for lots of people, it's fair to say).
The Elise (is that what you have?) is a jewel of a car, but not inordinately quick, and certainly not much quicker than most Morgans in real life situations...
Aeroman said:
bordseye said:
Trouble is, unlike Morgan, it is to some degree a kiddy-car with owners even contemplating fitting neons underneath]
Sooner or later the very set of different compromises that you live with on the Lotus may begin to irk, and then you may start to look around again.We'll still be here...
bordseye said:
Maybe if the 50 proposal goes through and I need to slow down a bit. But do you really get on with the arms bent / wheel almost against your chest driving position?
Well some of us thought that you couldn't leave Morgan's alone Bordeye and here you are back again. 
I won't go through the pro's and cons of ownership as that has been somewhat done to death on other threads on here, and I don't think there is anything further to usefully add (I loved that NY Times article Paul). 
You, and another member, allude to Morgan's possibly being an age-related thing, but if you look at the demographic on TalkMorgan you can see it is pretty much evenly divided between young and let me say, the more experienced in life (I fall into this group too
) owners with 'Young One' being to my knowledge the youngest Morgan-owning member and she's only recently passed her driving test. 
So sooner or later the agonising has to come to an end, yes - we have all adapted to the driving position for example, do you retreat back to the Lotus forum and continue talking about possible pimping your ride, or do you sell the 'plastic pig' (apologies in advance
) and buy another hand-crafted, in aluminium, British sports car and join the grown-ups?I think that it is now your turn to answer the question and a very fundamental one at that, as up to now people here have been patiently answering your questions. So come on Bordseye, what's it gonna be?
Aeroman
P.S. An erstwhile sailor, but usually only on Hobie 16's and in a much warmer climate than UK
AeroMan said:
.............. buy another hand-crafted, in aluminium, British sports car and join the grown-ups?
I have to grow old but I dont have to grow up!To be frank Aeroman and Boshly, I'm here for civlised chat. I've had a good look at both Trad and Aero and for the moment at least I will continue with the Lotus. Its a fabulous machine and modernity appeals to me more than traditional style. And I have to say I dont like the Morgan driving position.
But heyho - never say never. Who knows what I will buy next time, if indeed I buy another sports car.
I hope you dont mind an interloper in your forum.
bordseye said:
But heyho - never say never. Who knows what I will buy next time, if indeed I buy another sports car.
I hope you don't mind an interloper in your forum.
I have no issues with that at all and I am sure Boshly won't either, but can we have a deal - you don't mention that you don't like the driving position again and we won't mention 'plastic pigs' either. OK? I hope you don't mind an interloper in your forum.
Edited by AeroMan on Tuesday 10th March 19:58
Whats wrong with the driving position. I'm 6ft and find my aero comfortable and would even say I prefer it the armchair I have in my 5 series BMW. The missus even commented at the weekend the she prefers the seat to those in her BMW.
But if will make you feel at home I'am contemplating fitting a set of underside neons on my aero
But if will make you feel at home I'am contemplating fitting a set of underside neons on my aero
I must admit that having been a lurker in the Morgan world, I am pretty close to taking the plunge and getting a Morgan.
I have driven a roadster V6 and I have to say that I loved it ! Having come from a succession of regular, modern sporting cars, it was less agricultural than I expected it to be and I really enjoyed the sense of being "connected" to the road. In this sense, I think the original poster may find that a Morgan does have something in common with his Lotus.
I have a plan for my perfect traditional Morgan, which would be a kind of " Clubsport Roadster " with features like this:
Roadster V6 in black or connaught green with black leather interior.
Roll bar.
Different seats ( maybe racing buckets to bring me down lower and liberate some room ( I am 6'4)
Electric Power Steering Conversion together with a smaller Moto lita steering wheel ( to both improve the linearity of the steering and , critically, allow the fitment of a smaller wheel to liberate more room without making the steering too heavy)
Black Alloy wheels
Piano black dashboard
No bumpers.
No rear spare tyre but a blank cover as per the Morgan centenary package.
New chip / ECU conversion and a sports exhaust.
Zenon light conversion for late night, roof-off hooning.
Hopefully, finances allowing, I will be looking for a low mileage donor roadster in the next 2 months or so.
My idea is to create a car a little like the new 4/4 sport, but to meet my own needs as a tall driver , and to have V6 power.
I can think of no better roadster / sports car for British roads.
I have driven a roadster V6 and I have to say that I loved it ! Having come from a succession of regular, modern sporting cars, it was less agricultural than I expected it to be and I really enjoyed the sense of being "connected" to the road. In this sense, I think the original poster may find that a Morgan does have something in common with his Lotus.
I have a plan for my perfect traditional Morgan, which would be a kind of " Clubsport Roadster " with features like this:
Roadster V6 in black or connaught green with black leather interior.
Roll bar.
Different seats ( maybe racing buckets to bring me down lower and liberate some room ( I am 6'4)
Electric Power Steering Conversion together with a smaller Moto lita steering wheel ( to both improve the linearity of the steering and , critically, allow the fitment of a smaller wheel to liberate more room without making the steering too heavy)
Black Alloy wheels
Piano black dashboard
No bumpers.
No rear spare tyre but a blank cover as per the Morgan centenary package.
New chip / ECU conversion and a sports exhaust.
Zenon light conversion for late night, roof-off hooning.
Hopefully, finances allowing, I will be looking for a low mileage donor roadster in the next 2 months or so.
My idea is to create a car a little like the new 4/4 sport, but to meet my own needs as a tall driver , and to have V6 power.
I can think of no better roadster / sports car for British roads.
That sounds like a really nice, thoughtful spec.
Only element that I would query would be the PAS. The Roadster has (relatively) light steering and, for me, one of the joys of open road motoring is the directness and feel from the steering and the feedback from the road. You can fit a reasonably small wheel there (14" is quite common) without the steering being heavy.
That would be a great-looking car and a lot of fun to drive.
Only element that I would query would be the PAS. The Roadster has (relatively) light steering and, for me, one of the joys of open road motoring is the directness and feel from the steering and the feedback from the road. You can fit a reasonably small wheel there (14" is quite common) without the steering being heavy.
That would be a great-looking car and a lot of fun to drive.
asbojohn said:
Whats wrong with the driving position. I'm 6ft and find my aero comfortable and would even say I prefer it the armchair I have in my 5 series BMW. The missus even commented at the weekend the she prefers the seat to those in her BMW.
But if will make you feel at home I'am contemplating fitting a set of underside neons on my aero
Not allowed to comment on the first para ;-) but as for the second - well that would be the motoring equivalent of the the painted up 60 year old woman in a mini that you occasionally see round town. But if you do go that route, then make sure the neons are BRG.But if will make you feel at home I'am contemplating fitting a set of underside neons on my aero
bordseye said:
asbojohn said:
Whats wrong with the driving position. I'm 6ft and find my aero comfortable and would even say I prefer it the armchair I have in my 5 series BMW. The missus even commented at the weekend the she prefers the seat to those in her BMW.
But if will make you feel at home I'am contemplating fitting a set of underside neons on my aero
Not allowed to comment on the first para ;-) but as for the second - well that would be the motoring equivalent of the the painted up 60 year old woman in a mini that you occasionally see round town. But if you do go that route, then make sure the neons are BRG.But if will make you feel at home I'am contemplating fitting a set of underside neons on my aero
bordseye said:
Not allowed to comment on the first para ;-) but as for the second - well that would be the motoring equivalent of the the painted up 60 year old woman in a mini that you occasionally see round town. But if you do go that route, then make sure the neons are BRG.
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