Simmonds' Aero 8 S 1
Discussion
Steve Simmonds has modified a 2003 Aero 8 S 1 (# 26X).
Obviously Steve wanted to produce a more 'traditional' version of the Aero 8 with wire wheels,
trad doors and side screens, a different wind screen and a different top. I do like it. Will be interesting to see how the front looks after Steve changed it too. As many people have been dreaming of a new +8 but with an Aero chassis this car could be pretty close? This is not a car for customers who prefer high doors with electric windows and the convertible look. (I found the picture on the Mogwire.)
Obviously Steve wanted to produce a more 'traditional' version of the Aero 8 with wire wheels,
trad doors and side screens, a different wind screen and a different top. I do like it. Will be interesting to see how the front looks after Steve changed it too. As many people have been dreaming of a new +8 but with an Aero chassis this car could be pretty close? This is not a car for customers who prefer high doors with electric windows and the convertible look. (I found the picture on the Mogwire.)
2winscrew said:
I'm feeling it!!!
Yes. And it is exciting a lot of interest. I have received many inquiries for more details off the Morgan Wire in just 5 days. I believe the photo will also be featured on Miscellany's Simmonds ad.The wire wheels hubs will be available shortly. But I am very curious to see what Simmonds comes up with for the front end. I know that there will be pods involved and a newly shaped cowl and grille.
Who knows? Decades ago, another known Morgan aftermarketeer modified a stock car into the most famous line of all Morgans, the Plus 4 Super Sports.
Lorne
cerealsurfer said:
Or possibly the ultimate statement in stubbornness
There again, if someone is prepared to pay for the changes then go for it.
There again, if someone is prepared to pay for the changes then go for it.
It's called car love! If you knew what I have spent on my cars you be appalled as well. (and I do not pay myself for the labour! 
) Not a penny regretted and neither has Simmonds. Peter Morgan made the same comment as you many times about Chris Lawrence in the 60's with Chris' constant haranguing Peter about creating a car that could race at LeMans. To this day, the result of the stubbornness brings laurels to all owners. And Say what you will but Lawrence Tune's Super Sports modification of stock Plus 4s have proved to be one of the best automobile investments in history.
He then came back to create the Aero.
Do you really want to discourage people like that? Be flexible. It is one of the loveliest characteristics of Morgan owners.
Lorne
gomog said:
cerealsurfer said:
Or possibly the ultimate statement in stubbornness
There again, if someone is prepared to pay for the changes then go for it.
There again, if someone is prepared to pay for the changes then go for it.
It's called car love! If you knew what I have spent on my cars you be appalled as well. (and I do not pay myself for the labour! ) Not a penny regretted and neither has Simmonds. Peter Morgan made the same comment as you many times about Chris Lawrence in the 60's with Chris' constant haranguing Peter about creating a car that could race at LeMans. To this day, the result of the stubbornness brings laurels to all owners. And Say what you will but Lawrence Tune's Super Sports modification of stock Plus 4s have proved to be one of the best automobile investments in history.
He then came back to create the Aero.
Do you really want to discourage people like that? Be flexible. It is one of the loveliest characteristics of Morgan owners.
Lorne
But it makes me wonder how many 3 wheeler owners purchased one of the first series 1's to then cut off the 4th wheel and modify the rear end just so they could stick with a three wheeler layout.
Indeed I agree that the universal love of the personalisation of Morgans is one of Morgan Owners greatest charms and this is personified in the Pheonix for example.
This love as you suggest is something I believe all owners should embrace and cherish and the fact it supports a good portion of the Morgan after-market scene is significantly important to the long term survival of the marque especially the more classic models.
As an owner of both Trad and Aero I would say I have the most flexible view. Personally I don't see the above really generating the legend type status of the Lawrencetune cars. It is neither likely to win Le-Mans, Boost sales of new cars nor the Concours D'Elegance.... It will however win hearts, that of it's owner and the others that desire the continuation of the 4 Wheeler Traditional Morgan image... but if anything it's legendary status is only insured by it's embodiment of the clash of two era's and the lengths some will go to cling on to the past.
No doubt this and others like it will end up as future curiosity's collected by some as the icon's of the culture clash at a moment in Morgan's history. Possibly somewhere exists the 3 wheeled Series 1.. although I've personally not seen one yet.. maybe they did not love their cars enough back then?
cerealsurfer said:
I don't think it's fair to draw comparison with Chris Lawrence's antics with the above.. after all owners were performance tuning their Morgans long before Chris came along.
Indeed, but they did not win at LeMans. But I believe our views on Lawrence may be the same... I drew the comparison to underline the importance of external influences on Morgans. Lawrence did much for Morgan racing reputation. Steve has had a DEEP impact on stock Morgan aesthetics, notably the tops and trim. In his day, Lawrence had DEEP effect on aftermarket 60's Plus 4 tuning and, later on, Series I Aero mechanics and fuel mapping.
If you muse about it, and leave the racing reputation aside, there are more stock Morgans bearing Simmonds' influence than Lawrence's.
cerealsurfer said:
But it makes me wonder how many 3 wheeler owners purchased one of the first series 1's to then cut off the 4th wheel and modify the rear end just so they could stick with a three wheeler layout.
Sorry. I don't understand.cerealsurfer said:
Indeed I agree that the universal love of the personalisation of Morgans is one of Morgan Owners greatest charms and this is personified in the Phoenix for example.
Thank you. It was great fun and the Factory staff enjoyed creating that car as much as I. However, I could never dream of coming close to the creativity of a Simmonds or Lawrence or a Mulberry or a Humphries. With the Phoenix we all just distilled what was there without a budget. cerealsurfer said:
This love as you suggest is something I believe all owners should embrace and cherish and the fact it supports a good portion of the Morgan after-market scene is significantly important to the long term survival of the marque especially the more classic models.
Agreed wholeheartedly!cerealsurfer said:
It will however win hearts, that of it's owner and the others that desire the continuation of the 4 Wheeler Traditional Morgan image... but if anything it's legendary status is only insured by it's embodiment of the clash of two era's and the lengths some will go to cling on to the past.
I do not see it as "traddish" at all. You do? For me it looks like a Series I Aero (I always liked the Series I rear the best)..but a lighter more graceful one. Of course, the proof in the pudding will be what happens to the front. The Factory has also been developing the front look SO much from the Series I. It will be interesting to see what another professional concept will be.
I have good memories of that car. It's previous owner, a good moggie mate of mine, gave it to me for a lengthy tour of Britain some years ago. We are both fascinated at what's happening.
cerealsurfer said:
No doubt this and others like it will end up as future curiosity's collected by some as the icon's of the culture clash at a moment in Morgan's history.
Maybe. If not, it is also a long-held Factory tradition to incorporate what they like from outside sources into the production line very quickly. cerealsurfer said:
Possibly somewhere exists the 3 wheeled Series 1.. although I've personally not seen one yet.. maybe they did not love their cars enough back then?
Not sure I understand the reference. Why would someone remove a wheel from a 4 wheel car?Lorne
Interesting debate and its linked in a way to the Harvey Jones issue. Why take an Aero and modify it backwards (as it appears to me, a non Morgan man) to make it more of a traditional Morgan?
Morgan are trapped in a (hopefully very profitable) niche, rather like Harley. Efforts to produce a modern design have failed in business terms - I can well remember the streamlined GRP bodied effort of my youth - and I get the impression that the Aero has had only limited success.
So where do Morgan go from here in the longer term? This seems to be an issue that polarises Morgan owners. Or am I totally wrong?
Morgan are trapped in a (hopefully very profitable) niche, rather like Harley. Efforts to produce a modern design have failed in business terms - I can well remember the streamlined GRP bodied effort of my youth - and I get the impression that the Aero has had only limited success.
So where do Morgan go from here in the longer term? This seems to be an issue that polarises Morgan owners. Or am I totally wrong?
bordseye said:
Interesting debate and its linked in a way to the Harvey Jones issue. Why take an Aero and modify it backwards (as it appears to me, a non Morgan man) to make it more of a traditional Morgan?
There are Morgan aficionados who prefer the 'traditional' Morgan mechanics and shape, and those who prefer the 'new' mechanics and shape (of the Aero). Many like both, but there are those in the middle who like the 'traditional' shape but are rather envious of the 'new' chassis, engine and mechanicals - which is where the Simmonds variation may appeal, I suppose. (Not yet heard of any who would like the Aero body on traditional chassis though ...!)
pluseight said:
There are Morgan aficionados who prefer the 'traditional' Morgan mechanics and shape, and those who prefer the 'new' mechanics and shape (of the Aero).
Many like both, but there are those in the middle who like the 'traditional' shape but are rather envious of the 'new' chassis, engine and mechanicals - which is where the Simmonds variation may appeal, I suppose.
Imo you describe the different groups very well.Many like both, but there are those in the middle who like the 'traditional' shape but are rather envious of the 'new' chassis, engine and mechanicals - which is where the Simmonds variation may appeal, I suppose.
For those who like MTWs only Steve Simmonds might consider a Reliant Robin front?;-)
bordseye said:
Interesting debate and its linked in a way to the Harvey Jones issue. Why take an Aero and modify it backwards (as it appears to me, a non Morgan man) to make it more of a traditional Morgan?
(shrug) Do you feel the same about the Factory's modification of the Aero to add traditional headlight pods and an extended grille? Did the MMC move the Aero "backwards" by doing that as well?
The point is that designs get refined over time in an effort, hopefully, to make them more pleasing. Certainly the Company has firmly affirmed that there have been substantial sales increases after adding the pods and altering the grille.
Aesthetic choices are neither "backward" or "forward". At best those terms would be more appropriate used with mechanics and technological attributes. For example, moving from higher to lower bhp or ABS brakes to non-ABS brakes could be termed a backwards move.
But a lovely look is timeless. Is the Da Vinci's Mona Lisa or Picasso's Guernica backward or only the chemical composition of the paint they used?
Lorne
Quite!bordseye said:
Interesting debate and its linked in a way to the Harvey Jones issue. Why take an Aero and modify it backwards (as it appears to me, a non Morgan man) to make it more of a traditional Morgan?
Personally, I prefer the look of this, I love those scalloped traditional styled doors...Interesting debate. I for one have spent many £'s with Steve Simmonds in the past on my 4/4. His design skill and workmanship is excellent.
However when does a Morgan not become a Morgan and turn into a custom car? Surely whatever you think about the factory design the only pure breed is as it comes. I have a big issues with those Corvette engined 'Morgans'. OK to their designer and their owners they are an 'improvement' on the breed but they are not 'the breed'. Powerful and aesthetically (to some) pleasing they may be but they would never win a concours competition as they would loose massively on 'authenticity' points. It is possible they would not even be classed as a Morgan under such rules...
However when does a Morgan not become a Morgan and turn into a custom car? Surely whatever you think about the factory design the only pure breed is as it comes. I have a big issues with those Corvette engined 'Morgans'. OK to their designer and their owners they are an 'improvement' on the breed but they are not 'the breed'. Powerful and aesthetically (to some) pleasing they may be but they would never win a concours competition as they would loose massively on 'authenticity' points. It is possible they would not even be classed as a Morgan under such rules...
Edited by SpeedMog on Friday 6th March 14:41
SpeedMog said:
However when does a Morgan not become a Morgan and turn into a custom car? Surely whatever you think about the factory design the only pure breed is as it comes.
Disagree with that. Think how many after-market products there are for Morgans - and then think how many were adopted by the factory subsequently - Lawrencetune engines, Librands exhausts, Simmmonds hoods for starters ... 
Hey! Not to worry, bordseye. You are the odd man out because you like the Series I front and I am the odd man out because I muchly prefer the Series I rear! SpeedMog said:
However when does a Morgan not become a Morgan and turn into a custom car? Surely whatever you think about the factory design the only pure breed is as it comes.
pluseight said:
Disagree with that. Think how many after-market products there are for Morgans - and then think how many were adopted by the factory subsequently - Lawrencetune engines, Librands exhausts, Simmmonds hoods for starters ...
There is something in what you both write. On the one hand, Maurice Owen put a used Buick 215 (the first non-British engine in a Morgan!) in Plus 4, and it is called the first Plus 8 R7000. Is it a Morgan and if so why? Because a Factory employee designed and made it?
Chris Lawrence pulled the body and engine off three used Plus 4, rebodied them, re-engined them, (without MMC input) and called them SLRs = Sprinzel Lawrence Racing. The MMC takes great pride in them. http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/about_morgan/1960.ht... Are they Morgans and if so, why? Why? Because a Factory employee did NOT design or make them?
HFS had the Morgan Works complete style and body a Rolls Royce rolling frame, engine and mechanics as his limo touring car. Was it a Morgan or not? and why?
I have always mused that there SHOULD be some limits in non-Factory modifications to maintain a sufficient amount of marque DNA, but few, including the Factory, seem to agree.
It is historically apparent, that certain people are so indigenous to Morgan history and development that it is hard to deny their creations Morgan credibility, especially when they are successful. Bill Fink's relationship with Peter Morgan and Maurice Owen and his influence on 35 years of marque development is no secret.
For me, I am a simpler man. I confine my "modifications" to enhancing what is there, not changing it. It is amazing what you can do with Morgan engines and low weight. I had a ultimate trad one-off built by the Morgan Works in Malvern and when the inevitable jealous ones see it and drive it, many state it cannot be "real" Morgan simply because it is different theirs.
Is it a Morgan..and if so or not, why? Maybe envy is the only determining factor for naysayers.
But I thought we were speaking of Simmonds aesthetics...
How did Isis +8+s get included?!Lorne
bordseye said:
In which case I'm the odd one out. I think the front end of the series 1 Aero is fabulous looking -
gomog said:
.....and I am the odd man out because I muchly prefer the Series I rear!
Nope your both not odd as I prefer the Series 1 front and rear..... and the lower overall height... much more purposefull if you ask me....... Hey Lorne.. we agree on something...
I think where this debate can get potentially into conflict is if you consider the modifications made as in general 'better' or not than the original factory spec.
One of the great things about Morgans is the ability to personalise the car to individual tastes. I for one spent a small fortune personalising my old 4/4 for instance. For me the mods made were aimed at making the car more attuned to how and where I wanted to use it. For me it was better but as I found when I did eventually sell it the majority of owners did not. A number of dealers combined with my own experience have told me that cars modified in any way tend to be of less value than their originals. The one mod which bucks this trend is the Simmonds hood and maybe a good example of why the factory now employ their own easy up hood.
I think we need to recognise that although we all belong to the Mog 'community' we are all in many ways different from each other. Which is why many Mogs are individually customised for their owners. What is a debate is just how far can you go from standard and still be called a Morgan? Perhaps the correct answer to this is 'as far as the individual owner wants/can afford'?
... back to topic. I would really like to see Steve's mods in the flesh, he is an artist and I'm sure his latest creation will be just as 'marmite' as Aero's are and indeed Morgans are in the general motoring community.
One of the great things about Morgans is the ability to personalise the car to individual tastes. I for one spent a small fortune personalising my old 4/4 for instance. For me the mods made were aimed at making the car more attuned to how and where I wanted to use it. For me it was better but as I found when I did eventually sell it the majority of owners did not. A number of dealers combined with my own experience have told me that cars modified in any way tend to be of less value than their originals. The one mod which bucks this trend is the Simmonds hood and maybe a good example of why the factory now employ their own easy up hood.
I think we need to recognise that although we all belong to the Mog 'community' we are all in many ways different from each other. Which is why many Mogs are individually customised for their owners. What is a debate is just how far can you go from standard and still be called a Morgan? Perhaps the correct answer to this is 'as far as the individual owner wants/can afford'?
... back to topic. I would really like to see Steve's mods in the flesh, he is an artist and I'm sure his latest creation will be just as 'marmite' as Aero's are and indeed Morgans are in the general motoring community.
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