Advice on Morgan 4 seater please
Discussion
Hello, I wonder if any of you Morgan owners can help.
I sadly am considering giving up my motorcycles, and have been struggling to think of an enjoyable 4 wheeled alternative that will also be able to carry my wife and 2 children. The only car I could come up with that satisfied my criteria of style, spirited and fun to drive, 4 seats and convertible was the Morgan 4 seater. However, I know virtually nothing about these cars and need some unbiased advice. From a quick scour of those currently for sale, the only ones that would meet my budget (£12K or less) are 20 year old models. Please could you give your opinion on these cars, and specifically :-
- what problems occur with cars of this age ?
- could they be considered a reliable option, capable of being used regularly (140 mile round trips 2 or 3 times a week + weekends) ? And are they actually good and fun to drive ?
- what happens to the ash frames at this age, and are there any other problems with the bodywork ?
- what engine options are there (seems to be only the ford 1600) and what should be the one I go for if I want good performance ?
- what does servicing cost on an annual mileage of 5000 to 7500
- can parts be obtained easily for this age and for what cost ?
- what should I look out for when viewing models and is there a ‘Buyer’s Guide’ ?
- are they a serious and capable wet weather car ?
Thanks for any replies
I sadly am considering giving up my motorcycles, and have been struggling to think of an enjoyable 4 wheeled alternative that will also be able to carry my wife and 2 children. The only car I could come up with that satisfied my criteria of style, spirited and fun to drive, 4 seats and convertible was the Morgan 4 seater. However, I know virtually nothing about these cars and need some unbiased advice. From a quick scour of those currently for sale, the only ones that would meet my budget (£12K or less) are 20 year old models. Please could you give your opinion on these cars, and specifically :-
- what problems occur with cars of this age ?
- could they be considered a reliable option, capable of being used regularly (140 mile round trips 2 or 3 times a week + weekends) ? And are they actually good and fun to drive ?
- what happens to the ash frames at this age, and are there any other problems with the bodywork ?
- what engine options are there (seems to be only the ford 1600) and what should be the one I go for if I want good performance ?
- what does servicing cost on an annual mileage of 5000 to 7500
- can parts be obtained easily for this age and for what cost ?
- what should I look out for when viewing models and is there a ‘Buyer’s Guide’ ?
- are they a serious and capable wet weather car ?
Thanks for any replies
No reason why a Morgan would not fit the bill.
Engine options are Ford xflow, CVH, Zetec, Rover M16, T16 and very recently Ford 2.0 Duratec and Ford/Jag 3.0 V6.
All the running gear is pretty much standard kit easily available from everything from Ford main dealers to Morgan specialists.
Ash frame depends on how the car has been looked after and whether it has been cuprinold.
Apart from the most recent examples or one with a Simmonds hood the weather equipment is not leakproof.
Best bet is to speak to a Morgan agent, by and large very friendly and helpful people and get in touch with your local Morgan Sports Car Club centre where you will probably be welcome to poke, prod and generally pick their collective brains. But there will be as many differing opinions as there are on Pistonheads.
Engine options are Ford xflow, CVH, Zetec, Rover M16, T16 and very recently Ford 2.0 Duratec and Ford/Jag 3.0 V6.
All the running gear is pretty much standard kit easily available from everything from Ford main dealers to Morgan specialists.
Ash frame depends on how the car has been looked after and whether it has been cuprinold.
Apart from the most recent examples or one with a Simmonds hood the weather equipment is not leakproof.
Best bet is to speak to a Morgan agent, by and large very friendly and helpful people and get in touch with your local Morgan Sports Car Club centre where you will probably be welcome to poke, prod and generally pick their collective brains. But there will be as many differing opinions as there are on Pistonheads.
I had an '87 4 seater, with starship miles on it (for a Morgan), so saw where they can start to go wrong. I also bought it at the time not knowing much about Morgans, so learnt pretty fast!
General points as far as I remember:
Engine - cars around this period had the Ford 1600CVH engine. This was with carbs, or fuel injection a bit later. At this age condition of the overall car will be more important than what fuel system it is on. The CVH engine is strong but tends to get a bit smokey once over 100K miles - nothing that can't be fixed by a top end overhaul. The earlier ford crossflow engine is rated by some people - although an old push-rod design it is much more tuneable than the CVH.
Reliability - they are simple cars and in my experience a lot more reliable than many modern cars, as simply, there is less to go wrong.
Driving experience - they are very different. I love them - however my father thought both my Morgans were horrible to drive - you either 'get it' or you don't.
Body etc - mine had a tough outdoor life (unlike most others) and the front bulkhead had rusted in the footwells (between the engine and where your feet go). An easy repair. Later models had a stainless bulkhead. The ash frame is generally good, but can go - one of the first places is just behind the spare wheel, where it constantly gets soaked. Wing beading can start to bubble if you have alloy wings (the wire inside reacts), and require new wings if bad. Cosmetic only though, and parts availability is superb.
Servicing is cheap as the engine is very standard. The only thing to watch out for is a cambelt change every 3-4 years, although even this is no more than on a normal car. Kingpins need doing on a fairly regular basis, but again are not massively expensive to get done.
Are they any good in the rain? I used mine all year round, but it has to be said that the roof is poor, and the car will leak. The heater is good though! Many people only use the roof when the weather really demands it, and use the tonneau at other times, as Morgans are about open air motoring. It's an excuse to dress up for the drive though!
If you're not sure try a rental for a few days, preferably when the weather is less than ideal. This will tell you if you can live with one day to day.
Have fun!
General points as far as I remember:
Engine - cars around this period had the Ford 1600CVH engine. This was with carbs, or fuel injection a bit later. At this age condition of the overall car will be more important than what fuel system it is on. The CVH engine is strong but tends to get a bit smokey once over 100K miles - nothing that can't be fixed by a top end overhaul. The earlier ford crossflow engine is rated by some people - although an old push-rod design it is much more tuneable than the CVH.
Reliability - they are simple cars and in my experience a lot more reliable than many modern cars, as simply, there is less to go wrong.
Driving experience - they are very different. I love them - however my father thought both my Morgans were horrible to drive - you either 'get it' or you don't.
Body etc - mine had a tough outdoor life (unlike most others) and the front bulkhead had rusted in the footwells (between the engine and where your feet go). An easy repair. Later models had a stainless bulkhead. The ash frame is generally good, but can go - one of the first places is just behind the spare wheel, where it constantly gets soaked. Wing beading can start to bubble if you have alloy wings (the wire inside reacts), and require new wings if bad. Cosmetic only though, and parts availability is superb.
Servicing is cheap as the engine is very standard. The only thing to watch out for is a cambelt change every 3-4 years, although even this is no more than on a normal car. Kingpins need doing on a fairly regular basis, but again are not massively expensive to get done.
Are they any good in the rain? I used mine all year round, but it has to be said that the roof is poor, and the car will leak. The heater is good though! Many people only use the roof when the weather really demands it, and use the tonneau at other times, as Morgans are about open air motoring. It's an excuse to dress up for the drive though!
If you're not sure try a rental for a few days, preferably when the weather is less than ideal. This will tell you if you can live with one day to day.
Have fun!
Thanks for all your views chaps.
I've had a load of advice from other areas, and went to see Mike Duncan in Hartlebury on Friday. He was great and showed me a few of the cars he was looking after, and I fell in love - gosh they are SO pretty ! I'll keep you posted on developments.
thanks a lot
Matthew
I've had a load of advice from other areas, and went to see Mike Duncan in Hartlebury on Friday. He was great and showed me a few of the cars he was looking after, and I fell in love - gosh they are SO pretty ! I'll keep you posted on developments.
thanks a lot
Matthew
fly fisher said:
Hi,
What millage was on your 87 4 seater... As I have one of the same year wit high miles as well...
Will
Hi Will,What millage was on your 87 4 seater... As I have one of the same year wit high miles as well...
Will
I had mine from 120,000 to 145,000 miles - did some very long runs to S. of France etc. Finally part ex'd it for a tuned +8, though have to say that the 4/4 was nearly as fun.
Well,
As a regular back seat passenger in a 4-seater Morgan I would personally suggest spending a little extra and getting a newer model. I myself had a similar problem, we looked at several older 4-seaters, but they have quite a few rather obvious problems, which i encountered. Seeing as i am not the smallest of people and this car was going to be a daily-drive i needed to make sure that the car was practical. The older 4-seaters have a sort of pram mechanism for the hood which makes it quite difficult to get into the car when the hood is up and then once in the back, the bench seat in the rear is very much higher than the front seats which i found very unpleasant when the hood is down. also these cars are often not fitted with seatbelts at the rear and so once again, would this really be practical for your two children?? my suggestion is to get a slightly older model where the seats in the back are seperate, much lower and have seatlbelts as standard. In the end we opted for a 2000 yellow 4-seater. This i feel is much more practical. The hood is easy to take down and the back seats also fold down so there is plenty of storage space. However, if you really want to go the whole hog, Morgan has recently released a new 4-seater model, maybe it would be worth a look.
good luck in the hunt
As a regular back seat passenger in a 4-seater Morgan I would personally suggest spending a little extra and getting a newer model. I myself had a similar problem, we looked at several older 4-seaters, but they have quite a few rather obvious problems, which i encountered. Seeing as i am not the smallest of people and this car was going to be a daily-drive i needed to make sure that the car was practical. The older 4-seaters have a sort of pram mechanism for the hood which makes it quite difficult to get into the car when the hood is up and then once in the back, the bench seat in the rear is very much higher than the front seats which i found very unpleasant when the hood is down. also these cars are often not fitted with seatbelts at the rear and so once again, would this really be practical for your two children?? my suggestion is to get a slightly older model where the seats in the back are seperate, much lower and have seatlbelts as standard. In the end we opted for a 2000 yellow 4-seater. This i feel is much more practical. The hood is easy to take down and the back seats also fold down so there is plenty of storage space. However, if you really want to go the whole hog, Morgan has recently released a new 4-seater model, maybe it would be worth a look.
good luck in the hunt
It's good to hear that some owners put serious miles on their cars - I hope to use mine (when I eventually buy one) as regularly as possible.
I'd like to be able to get a 2000 reg or newer, Young One, but I simply can't afford one. So the kids will have to get used to goggles ! I have spoken to Allon White, and they said they can install proper (albeit static) three-point seat belts in the back. It won't be everyday transport, but I hope to take the family out often.
I've seen a couple of 4/4s so far - one not good, the other gorgeous but way too much money was being asked. Am still looking, but not too seriously yet as I have to sell my motorbikes first. Anyone interested in a Ducati 750SS or a fantastic Ducati 851 SP2 ? If so, let me know !
thanks
Matthew
I'd like to be able to get a 2000 reg or newer, Young One, but I simply can't afford one. So the kids will have to get used to goggles ! I have spoken to Allon White, and they said they can install proper (albeit static) three-point seat belts in the back. It won't be everyday transport, but I hope to take the family out often.
I've seen a couple of 4/4s so far - one not good, the other gorgeous but way too much money was being asked. Am still looking, but not too seriously yet as I have to sell my motorbikes first. Anyone interested in a Ducati 750SS or a fantastic Ducati 851 SP2 ? If so, let me know !
thanks
Matthew
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