Is This Normal?
Discussion
I bought a 96/N chimp from a TVR dealer 18 months ago. I believe that I have had nothing but trouble with it. I use it every day, either to get to work and back or as a general run-around. I am aware that TVR's are not well known for their reliability but I was unprepared for this amount of hassle.
Since I bought the car It has gone in for
Bent clutch pushrod (disabled car 3 days after purchase)
Poor running/misfiring 3 times
Power steering faults 4 times (I am on my third power steering pump)
Hood/Door Leaking 4 times
Replaced heater matrix
Poor starting 6 times
Engine stalling/cutting out 4 times
Gear selection problem 2 times
Replaced clutch
Reconditioning of differential 2 times
Door locks 3 times
Steppa Motor 3 times
Tracking 5 times
Lambda sensor 2 times
In additon there are the normal day to day costs such as new batteries and washer pipes, door seals etc.
On average my car goes in once every 3 to 4 weeks. It currently stalls when idling, the speedo is 'temprimental', it runs very poorly, the hood fixing is loose, their is air in the power steering and performance is that of a lightly salted slug. Tuning of the engine rarly lasts more that a week before performance is back to the mundane.
I am aware that in many cases I could be being fussy, but could anyone confirm if the above is normal for my kind of car or have a got a 'special' one? I am being told that this is normal by the garage that that my car is one of the best they drive. In my garages favour, they are very attentive and always appear to do their best but it seems, to no avail.
Thanks in advance
Since I bought the car It has gone in for
Bent clutch pushrod (disabled car 3 days after purchase)
Poor running/misfiring 3 times
Power steering faults 4 times (I am on my third power steering pump)
Hood/Door Leaking 4 times
Replaced heater matrix
Poor starting 6 times
Engine stalling/cutting out 4 times
Gear selection problem 2 times
Replaced clutch
Reconditioning of differential 2 times
Door locks 3 times
Steppa Motor 3 times
Tracking 5 times
Lambda sensor 2 times
In additon there are the normal day to day costs such as new batteries and washer pipes, door seals etc.
On average my car goes in once every 3 to 4 weeks. It currently stalls when idling, the speedo is 'temprimental', it runs very poorly, the hood fixing is loose, their is air in the power steering and performance is that of a lightly salted slug. Tuning of the engine rarly lasts more that a week before performance is back to the mundane.
I am aware that in many cases I could be being fussy, but could anyone confirm if the above is normal for my kind of car or have a got a 'special' one? I am being told that this is normal by the garage that that my car is one of the best they drive. In my garages favour, they are very attentive and always appear to do their best but it seems, to no avail.
Thanks in advance
Have you tried any other TVR garages when getting these problems fixed, or do you have a warranty agreement with the current garage?
Looks like you've had a lot more problems than should be expected, so I'd definitely try booking the car in with an alternative specialist/dealer and get a second opinion. Where abouts are you based? There are a lot of recommended TVR specialists listed on this forum if you look back through previous posts.
As long as you are sensible mechanically (i.e. letting the oil warm enough etc) then you shouldn't have too many major problems, most complaints/failures on Chimaeras seem to be smaller annoyances...
Looks like you've had a lot more problems than should be expected, so I'd definitely try booking the car in with an alternative specialist/dealer and get a second opinion. Where abouts are you based? There are a lot of recommended TVR specialists listed on this forum if you look back through previous posts.
As long as you are sensible mechanically (i.e. letting the oil warm enough etc) then you shouldn't have too many major problems, most complaints/failures on Chimaeras seem to be smaller annoyances...
Rick mate, you poor chap... I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I've also got a 96 Chimp, which I brought 2 1/2 years ago (main dealer). My story is Fan cooling switch went, £3 part nothing too fit. New pedal box (£500) (involved a complete re-fit of all three pedals) New Battery (£80), and a Power Steering leak (£60).. That's it, in almost 15k miles. Oh and endless tyres, etc...
I do feel sorry for you, and would say that your problems are not normal, or maybe I've just been lucky.. (my car always sits on the drive unil things have warmed...!)
Thing is what can you do...? Do you just keep throwing money at it... for what.... A poor re-sale value at the end of it all. I paid £24,500 for mine. 30 months later is lost about £10k.. And it's perfect... And very reliable, with a good life.....
I must say, if I had encountered the problems you have, I'm sorry to say, but it would have gone by now...!!
jj
I do feel sorry for you, and would say that your problems are not normal, or maybe I've just been lucky.. (my car always sits on the drive unil things have warmed...!)
Thing is what can you do...? Do you just keep throwing money at it... for what.... A poor re-sale value at the end of it all. I paid £24,500 for mine. 30 months later is lost about £10k.. And it's perfect... And very reliable, with a good life.....
I must say, if I had encountered the problems you have, I'm sorry to say, but it would have gone by now...!!
jj
Ah! Thanks for reminding me - The fans have gone twice as well and another hunt through my recipts has revealed
Steering universal joint replaced
Otter switch replaced 2 times
New ignition diode pack
Brake hoses replaced
HT leads replaced
Im glad not every TVR is like this. I would like to buy another TVR, but I dont think I could go through the previous 18 months again. Does anyone have any recommendations of how to find a decent Tiv or who I should go to, to be sure of a decent car?
I dont want to sound secretive, but there is only one TVR service center within 50 miles and if I told you where I was based then it would give it away and might unfairly tarnish the garage.
I try to be as sensible as possible with the car (wait until its warmed up before moving off etc.) and im not a manic driver - im too scared it will fall apart!
I agree totally with the resale value statement, I paid 22500 for mine and its worth about 14000 now. Its quite a drop for an already 4 year old car to have in just 18 months.
When it works though, the car is fantastic! I just wish it would work more often
Steering universal joint replaced
Otter switch replaced 2 times
New ignition diode pack
Brake hoses replaced
HT leads replaced
Im glad not every TVR is like this. I would like to buy another TVR, but I dont think I could go through the previous 18 months again. Does anyone have any recommendations of how to find a decent Tiv or who I should go to, to be sure of a decent car?
I dont want to sound secretive, but there is only one TVR service center within 50 miles and if I told you where I was based then it would give it away and might unfairly tarnish the garage.
I try to be as sensible as possible with the car (wait until its warmed up before moving off etc.) and im not a manic driver - im too scared it will fall apart!
I agree totally with the resale value statement, I paid 22500 for mine and its worth about 14000 now. Its quite a drop for an already 4 year old car to have in just 18 months.
When it works though, the car is fantastic! I just wish it would work more often
I bought a 95 N Chimaera from a TVR dealer all of ... three weeks ago ,,,and nothing has fallen apart yet (touchthedash).
Sorry to say, but I think you may have just have a very bad car ... they are out there ... certainly I don't think the things you've had to replace and the problems you'v experienced indicate this would be considered 'normal' for a TVR of that vintage.
What mileage have you covered? If you feel as tho' you are just throwing money at it – it may make sense to sell it and buy another (if you could bring yourself to) knowing in your heart of hearts that you couldn't possibly buy another as bad ...
Mike
Sorry to say, but I think you may have just have a very bad car ... they are out there ... certainly I don't think the things you've had to replace and the problems you'v experienced indicate this would be considered 'normal' for a TVR of that vintage.
What mileage have you covered? If you feel as tho' you are just throwing money at it – it may make sense to sell it and buy another (if you could bring yourself to) knowing in your heart of hearts that you couldn't possibly buy another as bad ...
Mike
quote:
Reconditioning of differential 2 times
Steppa Motor 3 times
I'm with Marshy on this one - 2 recon'd diff's? Presumably the dealer guaranteed the first effort?
3 Stepper motors - is your dealer just replacing it in the hope it is going to cure a rough idling type problem?
New batteries: just buy your next one from Halfords with a lifetime guarantee
My gut feeling is to stick with it (look at all the work that has already been done), change to a good independant and then work on getting some value out of the car - summer's coming!
The diff recon cost 120 pounds and the second one was free (guaranteed) but they said they replaced and realigned different bearings. It is a high mileage car, it has but 800 miles to go to its 60000 service. My theory was that a car with high milage will have had all the problems ironed out and wont have been stuck in a garage for most of its life.
In each of the steppa motor replacements, it was supposed to sure the stalling when idling or changing gear problem. Nothing has scared me more than changing gear on the motorway, having the engine cut out, and trying to restart the car whilst moving rapidly
I replaced the battery myself as the dealer told me a mere 2 weeks earlier that my battery was fine and in good condition - but it give up completely on me on new years eve, so Halfords it had to be.
I was kind of hoping for a unanimous feeling from the board, be it stay with the car and change garage or get rid of the car and move on.
My main concern is that its keeps getting the same problems again and again? The stalling when idling and changing gear is driving me crazy and it needs to go in again for this (5th time for the same problem). Its only been 4 weeks since it was last rectified! The problem does get fixed, but keeps coming back and my poor mechanical knowledge means I dont know if its the car or the garage at fault.
In each of the steppa motor replacements, it was supposed to sure the stalling when idling or changing gear problem. Nothing has scared me more than changing gear on the motorway, having the engine cut out, and trying to restart the car whilst moving rapidly
I replaced the battery myself as the dealer told me a mere 2 weeks earlier that my battery was fine and in good condition - but it give up completely on me on new years eve, so Halfords it had to be.
I was kind of hoping for a unanimous feeling from the board, be it stay with the car and change garage or get rid of the car and move on.
My main concern is that its keeps getting the same problems again and again? The stalling when idling and changing gear is driving me crazy and it needs to go in again for this (5th time for the same problem). Its only been 4 weeks since it was last rectified! The problem does get fixed, but keeps coming back and my poor mechanical knowledge means I dont know if its the car or the garage at fault.
quote:
The diff recon cost 120 pounds and the second one was free (guaranteed)
The problem does get fixed, but keeps coming back and my poor mechanical knowledge means I dont know if its the car or the garage at fault.
Well, you haven't had a reconditioned diff fitted for £120. They have done something to it, but a recon one (fitted) is three times that I think.
The problem does not get fixed (for good) – which is what you want. I would take it to an independent dealer (there are lists on here and in other threads and you can find who is nearest). there would be loads of suggestions on here if your location was known – but never mind – of course giving your location and then leaving the rest to sort itself out is not naming and shaming in my opinion.
If you a member of the TVRCC, take it to a meet, tell them the problems you are having and see who they recommend. Although 60k on the clock, what is the previous history? Does it have a fully stamped dealer history – your continued problems may be indicative of having been neglected earlier in its life – altho' IMO nothing is insurmountable.
Mike
>> Edited by MikeyT on Sunday 10th March 13:05
120 quid for a recon diff!! somthing fishy there im sure they woul charge more than that just to take the wheels off...
all TVR's are def not like that...
mine also a 96 P with about 40-45k on it which i bought on its 3rd birthday has only needed a new wiper motor and a speedo sender plus injector clean... it lives outside on the road and get used almost every day, and has also been on the track a few times...
I did have a stalling problem, a m8 lend me a stepper and no change... it turned out to be dirty injectors through using supermarket fuel and running the tank dry a couple of times... had the injectors cleaned and it was transformed..
Id say stick with the car, but try a recommended independant, if just for peace of mind... if they say the same as the dealer you know where you stand..
On the subject of residuals.. the problem with tvr is that they always had vrey good residuals.. you could buy a new one then sell it after 2 years for what you paid... Then came the ripoff car prices scam and all cars lost value and at the same time tvr residuals slipped to join normal cars.... those of us that bough 2-3 years ago generally bought at the old high prices and have taken the biggest hit as residuals realigned..
all TVR's are def not like that...
mine also a 96 P with about 40-45k on it which i bought on its 3rd birthday has only needed a new wiper motor and a speedo sender plus injector clean... it lives outside on the road and get used almost every day, and has also been on the track a few times...
I did have a stalling problem, a m8 lend me a stepper and no change... it turned out to be dirty injectors through using supermarket fuel and running the tank dry a couple of times... had the injectors cleaned and it was transformed..
Id say stick with the car, but try a recommended independant, if just for peace of mind... if they say the same as the dealer you know where you stand..
On the subject of residuals.. the problem with tvr is that they always had vrey good residuals.. you could buy a new one then sell it after 2 years for what you paid... Then came the ripoff car prices scam and all cars lost value and at the same time tvr residuals slipped to join normal cars.... those of us that bough 2-3 years ago generally bought at the old high prices and have taken the biggest hit as residuals realigned..
Ricky - I don't know where you bought the car from, but I suggest taking it somewhere else (local independent specialist are my fave) and get it sorted for good. You've had a number of niggling problems and you're right, the dealer should have fixed them. Stepper motors rarely go BTW, but most dealers love to charge you £75 for one and see if it solves the problem. (mine never has in 4 years). Borrow a Land Rover V8 fault code reader too ... see what it 'says'.
The stalling could be a duff sensor sending dodgy data to the ECU. This same sensor also drives the speedo reading. If the speedo works fine then it could be the wiring to the ECU from where the signal splits off to the Speedo/ECU.
Good luck.
T/.
The stalling could be a duff sensor sending dodgy data to the ECU. This same sensor also drives the speedo reading. If the speedo works fine then it could be the wiring to the ECU from where the signal splits off to the Speedo/ECU.
Good luck.
T/.
Ricky,
I agree with what most are saying here. It sounds like a combination of unfortuantely getting one of the bunch where everything just goes wrong and poor servicing by the dealership. If they fix everything, there's no reason it should not work as good as new! However if it ends up costing you a fortune to repair, I'd look around for another one.
I have a 97P and it runs like a dream. I've had it 6 months and a few niggling hassles, but nothing that would cause me to get rid of it!
Rattling drivers side window
Starter motor replaced coz it was overheating
Hydraulic clutch system knackered
Door solenoids knackered
One headlight and two brake lights blown
A couple of other things that I can't remember
I'm not surprised at the above, as I wouldn't be suprised with this happening to any car of this type. If I spent £100k + on another supercar, I'd probably say the same thing (although I wouldn't be as happy!)
Good luck with your decision!
- Shane
I agree with what most are saying here. It sounds like a combination of unfortuantely getting one of the bunch where everything just goes wrong and poor servicing by the dealership. If they fix everything, there's no reason it should not work as good as new! However if it ends up costing you a fortune to repair, I'd look around for another one.
I have a 97P and it runs like a dream. I've had it 6 months and a few niggling hassles, but nothing that would cause me to get rid of it!
Rattling drivers side window
Starter motor replaced coz it was overheating
Hydraulic clutch system knackered
Door solenoids knackered
One headlight and two brake lights blown
A couple of other things that I can't remember
I'm not surprised at the above, as I wouldn't be suprised with this happening to any car of this type. If I spent £100k + on another supercar, I'd probably say the same thing (although I wouldn't be as happy!)
Good luck with your decision!
- Shane
Sounds like the service you're getting is pretty crap. These cars are assembled out of mass produced components and there is no reason why a competent gargage shouldn't be able to set one up properly. If it hasn't been looked after properly in the past, then it may take a while to get all the gremlins sorted, but you should never have to go back time and time again for the same problem to be fixed. Sounds like they're taking a trial and error approach, and getting you to foot the bill for the bits they consume along the way. There is no reason why they shouldn't be able to diagnose why it won't idle. There are several things that could be causing this, and they need to go through the options methodically until they find the culprit. Selling you an endless stream of stepper motors is not acceptable.
If I were you, I'd go to a local TVRCC meet and ask around for a good specialist. Get him to give the car a thorough inspection and show him the recepits. Sadly it may cost a bit to get it put back on its feet properly, but I imagine that you be preferable to having a perpetually unreliable ar.
>> Edited by ATG on Sunday 10th March 15:55
If I were you, I'd go to a local TVRCC meet and ask around for a good specialist. Get him to give the car a thorough inspection and show him the recepits. Sadly it may cost a bit to get it put back on its feet properly, but I imagine that you be preferable to having a perpetually unreliable ar.
>> Edited by ATG on Sunday 10th March 15:55
quote:
The stalling could be a duff sensor sending dodgy data to the ECU. This same sensor also drives the speedo reading. If the speedo works fine then it could be the wiring to the ECU from where the signal splits off to the Speedo/ECU.
Good luck.
T/.
Concur this is strong possible for stalling on the move, whilst changing up as the electrical Speedo sender lets the ECU know the cars still moving and should keep the revs up during a gear change.
Are you sure this particular garage doesn't see you as a milking cow? Top tip: NEVER let a garage know you are not mechanically minded as they will treat you like they treat most women that take cars in, with contempt. The fault readout, for diagnosing the ECU fault codes should get the garage to change the right bit with the minimum of fuss.
IMHO change the garage you take the car to and see if your bills reduce.
I don't think your mileage is linked to the amount of 'apparent' faults you're getting, I'd be tempted to think that you've had so much changed you must be in for a long period of minimum bills (famous last words I know
), particularly if you go to a PH recommended dealer/independent from now on. Harry
PS Just loked it up,
Fault code 68 - Road speed sensor output too low at medium rpm and high air flow.
Possible sensor or wiring fault (will also cause wrong speedo readings on electrical speedo cars). Valid for cat cars only.
>> Edited by HarryW on Sunday 10th March 16:09
Thanks a lot everyone. Theres a lot of good advice and tips from some very knowledgable people I see. I will, as suggested, find a local independant specialist and get the whole car checked over. Although it has a FTVRSH I suspect it has been abused at some points in its life.
Thanks to you all, it nice to know that experts are prepared to help out a complete novice in situations like this.
Cheers.
Thanks to you all, it nice to know that experts are prepared to help out a complete novice in situations like this.
Cheers.
It sounds like you have a number of related issues, which the garage have replaced parts to try to fix, but have never got to the root cause. Unfortunately this is due to a methodology of replace rather than diagnose and fix, which is common in car repair today.
I would suggest that poor running, stalling and the speedo problems could all be related ( possibly back at the speed sensor on the diff or the wiring back to the ECU.
A new diff is £500 plus , I doubt £120 would even cover the labour to take it out and put it back again.
If you are replacing the diff because of a whineing noise when hot, this is normal, although exactly how loud the whine is is the rela factor, if you can't hear it when you're accelerating , then it's probably ok.
I would suggest that poor running, stalling and the speedo problems could all be related ( possibly back at the speed sensor on the diff or the wiring back to the ECU.
A new diff is £500 plus , I doubt £120 would even cover the labour to take it out and put it back again.
If you are replacing the diff because of a whineing noise when hot, this is normal, although exactly how loud the whine is is the rela factor, if you can't hear it when you're accelerating , then it's probably ok.
I see you are in the Midlands.
If you want to get an independant opinion give Adrian Venn at Exactly TVR a ring, he's based in Coventry.
My 1998 4.0L has been stripped down to nuts and bolts, resprayed and rebuilt by Adrian and is a better car now than when it came out of the factory. He is a TVR Nut with a passion. I have recommended him to several other TVR owners (Sporting Bears) and they have all come away believing they have found a real gem. He is a TVR fanatic who charges very reasonable rates.
(AND I AM NOT ON COMMISSION)
Let me know how you get on if you decide to contact him.
>> Edited by Gimlet on Monday 11th March 10:48
If you want to get an independant opinion give Adrian Venn at Exactly TVR a ring, he's based in Coventry.
My 1998 4.0L has been stripped down to nuts and bolts, resprayed and rebuilt by Adrian and is a better car now than when it came out of the factory. He is a TVR Nut with a passion. I have recommended him to several other TVR owners (Sporting Bears) and they have all come away believing they have found a real gem. He is a TVR fanatic who charges very reasonable rates.
(AND I AM NOT ON COMMISSION)
Let me know how you get on if you decide to contact him.
>> Edited by Gimlet on Monday 11th March 10:48
Just to add my tuppence worth!
The idling problem, could be as mentioned, dirty inhjectors! A mate had a 1.8 Injection car. Idled like a complete pig, he cleaned the injectors with that stuff you put in the fuel tank, changed the air filter and had the tank cleaned by a specialist!! Runs like a wee sweatie now!!!
I have noticed something through this thread, ECU readings. If the speed sensor is on the DIFF and the garage has been fannying with the DIFF could these be related??? Just a thought!!
I hope that you have more luck/better service/a good car with this independant!
Cheers
Stuart
The idling problem, could be as mentioned, dirty inhjectors! A mate had a 1.8 Injection car. Idled like a complete pig, he cleaned the injectors with that stuff you put in the fuel tank, changed the air filter and had the tank cleaned by a specialist!! Runs like a wee sweatie now!!!
I have noticed something through this thread, ECU readings. If the speed sensor is on the DIFF and the garage has been fannying with the DIFF could these be related??? Just a thought!!
I hope that you have more luck/better service/a good car with this independant!
Cheers
Stuart
Ricky ,
Very late to this thread , but see from your profile that you are Midlands based . Do your self a favour , blast down the M5 ( As quick as the car will let you !) and let Richard and the boys at Peninsula take a look . I can highly recommend them , knowledgeable and considerably cheaper than a main dealer .
Very late to this thread , but see from your profile that you are Midlands based . Do your self a favour , blast down the M5 ( As quick as the car will let you !) and let Richard and the boys at Peninsula take a look . I can highly recommend them , knowledgeable and considerably cheaper than a main dealer .
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