CHIMAERA OR ELISE ??
Discussion
Now heres a thing. Got married 5 weeks ago and drove a friends brand new facelift Elise away from church (355 had been hoping for didn''t come good) - what an absolute hoot. This was my first proper sports car experience although i''ve had the passion, if not the money, for years. Following a very drunk reception at Frensham Ponds I was honeymooning with the new Mrs Robinson in the Bahamas when she uttered the unforgetable line "why don''t we get a sports car" - what a result!!!! So, this brings me to the point of this mail - what to get (3rd car - w/end use)??
I am not a rich man but I would appear to be able to raise around £22k with a rather reasonable repayment schedule. This must however cover purchase and running costs, although I can fund insurance separately. I''ve narrowed it down to either an Elise (2nd hand non facelift) or a Chimaera - two very different beasts (ok so ya cant really call the Elise a beast but it''s a lotta fun).
I''m probably looking at spending anything up to 17k on the car but want to make sure I have a good contingancy for running it. At around this price it appears you''d get an Elise which is up to a couple of years newer than the Chimp and with less miles. Having been a TVR fan I will probably end up with a Chimaera if my heart is allowed to rule my head (it''s just the noise thing). I''ve just been taken out in a 5ltrHC & bugger me it was fast 
- too fast. You see the wife will be insured to drive & I think that a 5ltr will just end up parked backwards in a ditch - & thats propably me doing it b4 her. I havnt been in the 4ltr yet but presume that 100 less ponies under the bonnet makes some difference - this, subject to driving, could be the considered option (i''m already confident that Elises stick to the road like glue).
So heres the thing - at long last. Having read a lot of the forum postings i''m begining to be a little concerned by postings referring to maintenance bills (4 Chimps) running into the 3-5k ball park. Don''t get me wrong, I know TVR ownership doesnt come cheap but is this the exception or the norm ??? The idea is that i''d sell after 2 years ish (longer if wife can be disuaded from babies - agh) but I dont want to financially cripple myself into the bargain (several 3-5k bills would do this). Does anyone have experience of having run both an Elise and a Chimp and how they matched up 4 both fun and running costs ?? Advice on Chimp ownership and running costs would also be appreciated.
My decision will obviously be aided by both the wife & I driving a chimp. I always hate having to almost show garages the folding stuff b4 they let u behind the wheel. Does anyone therefore know of a local (i''m in Hampshire) garage/dealer who is fairly relaxed & recognises that u gotta try b4 u buy (i hate hard sellers).
Finally, where and when does the TVR owners club meet in Hampshire as i''d love to pop along.
MANY THANKS
- too fast. You see the wife will be insured to drive & I think that a 5ltr will just end up parked backwards in a ditch - & thats propably me doing it b4 her. I havnt been in the 4ltr yet but presume that 100 less ponies under the bonnet makes some difference - this, subject to driving, could be the considered option (i''m already confident that Elises stick to the road like glue).
So heres the thing - at long last. Having read a lot of the forum postings i''m begining to be a little concerned by postings referring to maintenance bills (4 Chimps) running into the 3-5k ball park. Don''t get me wrong, I know TVR ownership doesnt come cheap but is this the exception or the norm ??? The idea is that i''d sell after 2 years ish (longer if wife can be disuaded from babies - agh) but I dont want to financially cripple myself into the bargain (several 3-5k bills would do this). Does anyone have experience of having run both an Elise and a Chimp and how they matched up 4 both fun and running costs ?? Advice on Chimp ownership and running costs would also be appreciated.
My decision will obviously be aided by both the wife & I driving a chimp. I always hate having to almost show garages the folding stuff b4 they let u behind the wheel. Does anyone therefore know of a local (i''m in Hampshire) garage/dealer who is fairly relaxed & recognises that u gotta try b4 u buy (i hate hard sellers).
Finally, where and when does the TVR owners club meet in Hampshire as i''d love to pop along.
MANY THANKS
I was in a similar quandary and eventually went for a TVR - Griff 500. Private purchase (yes, risky but saved 4k). No regrets whatsoever, I've done 3,000miles and absolutely no probs. The car has done 40,000, so any gremlins have been ironed out. I test drove numerous Elises, Chims and Griffs. Although the Elise was great fun, I came to the conclusion that they are overpriced and just too impractical. The Griff is fantastic value for money, has a few creature comforts, and a fair degree of practicality - and of course mind-boggling performance. Take it easy to start with and be sensible and the hedges should leave you alone! I recommend Fernhurst for test drives, very helpful - I turned up in a 12 year old Golf and they didn't turn their noses up! For Lotus drives, I went to Haydon Cars in Salisbury - again helpful and enthusiastic, but I understand they have lost the franchise.
Bell and Colville near Horsham were rather aloof, as are Portfields near Chichester.
Hope this helps - I am near Southampton, email me if you need any further info.
The thing with TVR's seems to be that there are good ones and bad ones. I've had my Griff for 18 months (17,000 miles) and apart from routine servicing (use an independant at 350 quid a go), it has needed a new battery (the original one was the wrong type) and a new expansion cap (as I was overfilling the coolant).
Other people I know have had all kinds of engine problems, electrics failing, etc. I consider myself very lucky to have what seems to be a reasonably reliable car and accept that mine could develop a moderate problem (1-3k) in the next couple of years.
I test drove an Elise 111S a couple of months ago. It was fun, nippy and went round corners like a go kart. If I was going to buy my girlfriend a sporty car (as if!), this would be the one. However at no time during the test drive did I ever feel like I could out-accelerate a 747 or want to get out of the car and have a quiet sit down by the side of the road. I'm not convinced they would be any more reliable but are probably cheaper to fix if they do go wrong.
If you want a sensible (ish) roadster, get an Elise. If you want to have adrenaline on tap, get a TVR.
Oh, and as for dealers, Fernhurst are indeed very good and there are a few other TVR dealers near by.
Ian A
Griff 500
Edited by IPAddis on Monday 27th August 14:16
>>>i''m begining to be a little concerned by postings referring to maintenance bills (4 Chimps) running into the 3-5k ball park.
I don't think that's typical. It's more like a few hundred here and there plus the odd bits that you buy because you haven't bought the car a pressie this month (how sad is that?)...
-Manek-
Try calling Adrian Blyth (advertises on this site). He's a top bloke very easy going and understands that you need to try before you buy. I bought my car from him getting on for a year ago now, he was happy to let me test drive cars back to back (a 4.3 and a 5.0 Griff) So I got a feel for how different cars behaved.
In the time I've had my Griff it's cost me less than 500GBP (not including petrol and insurance obviously) though it is due for a set of rears soon.
I've just gone from a 99 Elise S1 to a 97 4.0 Chimp. I had the Elise two years and it was great fun.
Yes, you're right, the cars are totally different.
I decided I simply wanted a change, but wanted something with the performance and practictality. So the Chimp it was.
I'd say that the Elise is certainly better to drive - more fun - the steering is sublime and the handling/feedback is 2nd to none! I thrashed mine everywhere and still got 30mpg - something that can't be said of my 4l growler!
You'll find the Elise cheaper to insure, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to run. If you're having it as a 3rd car, then you won't need the practicality of a Chimaera!
If you get one in basic form, and want a more power, there are plenty of upgrades available. For about a grand you should be able to get it up to 135bhp, and for a little more 160bhp. Or, why not go for a 220bhp supercharged Elise?
Why go for an Elise though? Why not go all out and get a Caterham? You can enter the Caterham scheme for new racers for about £15k that includes a car, tuition and about 6 race days!
Hope this helps.
Bruce
I'm still wondering and still to actually drive a Chimp - something to rectify this weekend I think.
The thing is my heart says 4l Chimaera (noise, noise, noise - nothing else matters - although XR2's, NOVA's etc with dustbin exhausts make lots of noise but make their owners look like twats). However, my head says Elise due to safety (less likely that I or wife will go rambling in woods in it) as well as lower cost of ownership.
Bugger - how can I decide - Test Driving really is a must.
Anyway, Bruce, if I can be so bold, how much did you pay for your 97 Chimp 4l ?
I may have an option on a 97P 4l with pas, full leather & gold badges ??
(is the badge just a nice touch or a sign of a special edition??) with 35K on the clock for 16k. This seems reasonable (depending on condition when viewed)???
Finally, I read one of the other threads about cornering/spinning in TVR's and from some of the postings wondered just how easy it is for the non experienced to learn to drive these things. Is my MX5 driving wife gonna do herself damage in a Chimp - shes fairly competant and is fine in my Celica which despite being similar size to Chimp is still a light year away in performance etc. Gosh - I must be growing old putting my wifes safety b4 my own motoring preferences.
Anyway, thanks so far for comments and any others welcome.
Edited by mrol on Thursday 30th August 23:40
(is the badge just a nice touch or a sign of a special edition??) with 35K on the clock for 16k. This seems reasonable (depending on condition when viewed)???
Finally, I read one of the other threads about cornering/spinning in TVR's and from some of the postings wondered just how easy it is for the non experienced to learn to drive these things. Is my MX5 driving wife gonna do herself damage in a Chimp - shes fairly competant and is fine in my Celica which despite being similar size to Chimp is still a light year away in performance etc. Gosh - I must be growing old putting my wifes safety b4 my own motoring preferences.
Anyway, thanks so far for comments and any others welcome.
Edited by mrol on Thursday 30th August 23:40 FYI mrol I bought a 4 litre 97P a few months ago. 33k on the clock, starmist blue, full magnolia leather, pas, slightly upgraded stereo. Seems to be in fairly good nick mechanically, paint job in good order, interior beginning to get a little tired, particularly wool carpets fading. I assume this is mainly exposure to sunlight as the car has been street parked. I knew the previous owner and bought car from him privately for £16.5k.
Compared to other cars on the market at that time I reckon that was a fair price for us both. Better than he'd have got from a dealer, and better than I'd have got privately plus I had known the car on and off for a couple of years. He could have got a bit more for it, but would have had to wait a longer to sell.
quote:I can't see why a Chimaera is less safe than an Elise - I've never 'lost' my Chimaera in nearly 4 years of ownership. More than I can say for the Girlfriend in her 4WD ESP'd Audi TT. The Chimaera throttle is very analogue and easy to feather due to the long pedal travel. An Elise handles a lot better, but once it lets go you're history. Also, I think I'd rather go off-road in a Chimaera than an Elise. Seems a bit more substantial.
However, my head says Elise due to safety (less likely that I or wife will go rambling in woods in it)
mrol.
Both the Chimp and the Elise are great cars. I enjoyed driving an Elise very much recently.
But I think you are worrying overmuch about the Chimp and "losing it".
Yes - you can "light-up" the rear wheels in the wet with too much accelerator. Remembering back to when we first got ours this generally happened at traffic lights quite safely - let up on the throttle and everything calms back down.
If you own a Chimp you soon get used to driving with additional caution when conditions warrant it: i.e. wet, icy etc.
"Self Control Not Traction Control"
We use ours as daily transport - my wife commutes 60 miles a day in it. Yes the running costs are higher than other cars - but if its your third car you won't be cranking up the miles so...
Go for it. Chimp. Yes yes yes. 
I'd go for the Chimp
1. Practicality - boot space, comfort etc; a trip to the continent would feel a long way in an elise
2. Grunt, noise, speed etc
3. What does LOTUS stand for? Lots of trouble, usually serious. TVRs do have faults, but mine has been fantastic
4. Exclusivity - all TVRs are unique
5. Friendliness - go to any TVR meeting, everyone is keen to help.
How many more reasons do you need?
Consider power steering if the boss is going to drive it. It wasn't standard to start with.
Have fun
Yours totally impartially
Richard
Chimaera 4L
I recently went to an 'action day' at Castle Combe, and this unfortunate guy in an Elise went slightly too fast and lost it.
Check out the pic:-
http://www.bress.freeserve.co.uk/elise/ouch.html
Point is, I don't think Lotus cars are any more safer than TVR's if driven outside of your limits.....
Mike
www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk
I've had a Griff 500 for almost a year, driven it almost every day, rain and shine. Mechanically, no problems whatsoever. No bits dropped off or funny noises. I too was a bit concerned when I read some of the threads on reliability, but I guess no problems makes for a boring discussion. My Tiv is usually given some right stick, but handed back no hairly moments at all (very surprising, this). Lots of sweaty-palms though. Its wagged its tail a fair bit, always when given some (not much) boot around a corner. Definitely makes you think about what you're doing and take notice of the road surface. Never been out in snow or ice (wouldn't fancy that at all) and its always garaged. I bought the car from a dealer, never test drove it or any other Tiv (this is not advisable) but seem to have ended up with a good un.
Go for it!
Am 24, and bought my K-plate Chimp (4.0 l) earlier this year...Now I know for a fact that my age group are know for the street racing antic's (and after previously owning renault 5 gt turbo for 4 years , I agree). Any ways my point is when anyone who has just bought a performance vehicle, should take time to get used to the drive and power), no point thiking you're hakkenen, after about 5 mins in a lotus or tiv if you have no previous high performance experience........
My work mate drive a lotus elise 111s, he had a go in mine and loved th power and noice, and i thought his car handled like a dream...
So it all depends on what floats ya boat...
I personally think, that sometimes you just want to cruise, and theres nothing better than that V8 rumble..
good luck
Inovator
Having owned both an elise (Mk 1) and a Chimaera (4.5) I'd have to say that out of the two I probably miss the elise more. Maybe. I never had any problems with the elise, but had numerous niggly little electrical problems with the chimp. Plus my 12,000 mile sevice came to a whopping GBP1300! (it was main-dealer, but even so...)
In retrospect, I'd look very carefully at all options (not just those two), talk to the owners groups, test drive at least 4 examples of each car, and make sure you get a realistic appreciation of how much it costs to run these machines from the owners groups (example: you may be able to pick up a 4.2 Cerbie for 20k - but if you can only just afford that there's no way you'll be able to afford the servicing, petrol and rubber!).
Best of Luck,
Fox
---
Mrol,
If you can get a 97P for £16k then go for it, its a good price. I got mine from a main dealer and it only had 10k on the clock - it was barely worn in. So I paid over the odds, but had a virtually new car.
As for Loti being unreliable. Hardly. I had a few little niggles, but it never once broke down. I never had huge servicing bills and the fuel consumption was excellent considering the way it was driven.
As for the rear giving way in the Chimp vs. Lotus. I span my Elise into the central reservation on a cold wet night. I'd have done exactly the same in the Chimp under the same conditions.
However, the standard tyres on the Elise are pants in the wet - I swapped them for S02's that were excellent in the wet and just as good as the P0's in the dry.
Suggesting that the Elise will simply break away is totally untrue.
If you don't need the practicality of a TVR, go for the Elise. Actually, don't take my word, or anyone heres! Take both for a testdrive. If you have any doubts, take them out again and again until you're sure.
Before my Elise, I had an Elan and had taken three out until I found the right one. The fisrt Chimp I took out almost put me off, but the 2nd was much better, so I traded in the Liz...!
Bruce
Time for my latest update.
Finally got round to some test driving this weekend. Having visited lotus near St Albans, Fernhurst and Hawthorns last weekend I booked in with Hawthorns to drive the elise and chimaera back to back and see what the wife and I thought.
Well,contrary to all expectations, I found the Chimp an absolute joy to drive and quite managable into the bargain (only 4l though). The car just didnt stop putting a grin on my face and sounded awesome. However !!!!! My wife is only 5ft4in - she couldnt reach the peddles very easily....lol. Even with the chair fully forward it was a stretch, making driving extremely awkward - needless to say this has tainted her view of the car (how distressed am I). Fortunately she was able to drive it but just couldnt get the full travel of the pedals without having to lower herself in the seat.
I on the other hand just couldnt get enough of it - I am very jealous of you owners and would even personally consider the 5l.
So ...... to the Elise. Having driven the Elise 2 things were pretty much as I expected they would be on the original. Hawthorns let us take out a 111s (VVC Engine) although I couldnt notice much difference between the 111S and the Elise 2 (? is elise 2 non VVC).
Needless to say it handled like a dream and it really is easy for the less experienced performance driver to get a lot of enjoyment out of it. So to the wife.... well, she loved it (oo er). This was of little surprise as its of similar proportions etc to her MX5 - and she could reach the peddles. She was a lot more comfortable egging it on and found it less heavy on the steeering (even though the Chimp had power steering). I felt I could have a lot of fun in this car on some country lanes where I would no doubt have had to go much easier with the tiv (hardly a surprise though).
So to the verdict - undecided.
I think some more driving is in order. I have spoken to Hawthorns about adjusting the pedals on their demonstrator so that the little lady can have another go and formulate a proper opinion. She still loves the TVR and as a pasenger enjoyed it far more but the simple fact is if she cant reach the pedals to drive comfortably then it'll have to be the elise.
I have to say though that contrary to my initial expectations of performance car dealers Hawthorns have been truely superb so far. To be able to get BOTH of us driving BOTH cars back to back was exactly what we needed.
I can only hope and pray that a little peddle adjustment will resolve the wifes problems with the TVR as all things considered it would be my choice. The elise would be a close second so i shant be too gutted if we end up with one. Only thing is, the elise has no burble, it sounded like a lawnmower (imho) wheras the Tiv really did create the full on schoolboy sportscar passion - wohoo !!!
So - A little more driving and a few weeks in traction for the missus and we should be nicely sorted.
MROL
Edited by mrol on Sunday 9th September 17:22
So, what did I buy ?
An elise - 2000W Azure/Cream Interior 5000mls (only got on Friday so still grinning from ear to ear).
If you've read all my posts you'll know I had narrowed my options to 2 cars (chimp and elise) which i thought were both sublime but for obviously different reasons. You will also recall that i was basing my decision on my budget and what I and the missus actually wanted to do with the car. The elise just fitted our circumstances better and could be happily lived with as it was a 3rd car / weekend toy.
I do still however FULLY recognise the appeal of the Tiv and would seriously think of one if circumstances ever permit in the future. Unfortunately I think my finances only run to two years of ownership whichever car - cant afford to keep toy forever.
Your comments were however really useful and it was a welcome change to see objective advice based on my constraints/concerns etc and not just "I can afford to own this and like it therefore u should get one".
I look forward to enjoying the Elise more and more as the weather improves but will smile at the Tivs I see, knowing that the driver is enjoying himself as much as I am - lets be honest both cars make their owners feel good just in different ways - PRO CHOICE.
Anyway, far more likely to keep my licence in the Elise. Having driven the Chimp I know that I just wouldn't be able to take my foot off the loud pedal until it stopped accelerating. The Elise on the other hand just doesnt induce the desire to chase the end of fifth gear as to be honest all it's fun is had in lower gears (not a suggestion that chimps aren't fun in lower gears, just that they are capable of and induce a desire for the sorts of speed that would provide the Burnside with their weekly 'clocked one at 150 story').
All IMHO off course, just hope my numbers come up so I can put a chimp in garage with the elise and feel complete - need a bigger garage 1st though.
MROL
Edited by mrol on Tuesday 8th January 01:22
An elise - 2000W Azure/Cream Interior 5000mls (only got on Friday so still grinning from ear to ear).
If you've read all my posts you'll know I had narrowed my options to 2 cars (chimp and elise) which i thought were both sublime but for obviously different reasons. You will also recall that i was basing my decision on my budget and what I and the missus actually wanted to do with the car. The elise just fitted our circumstances better and could be happily lived with as it was a 3rd car / weekend toy.
I do still however FULLY recognise the appeal of the Tiv and would seriously think of one if circumstances ever permit in the future. Unfortunately I think my finances only run to two years of ownership whichever car - cant afford to keep toy forever.
Your comments were however really useful and it was a welcome change to see objective advice based on my constraints/concerns etc and not just "I can afford to own this and like it therefore u should get one".
I look forward to enjoying the Elise more and more as the weather improves but will smile at the Tivs I see, knowing that the driver is enjoying himself as much as I am - lets be honest both cars make their owners feel good just in different ways - PRO CHOICE.
Anyway, far more likely to keep my licence in the Elise. Having driven the Chimp I know that I just wouldn't be able to take my foot off the loud pedal until it stopped accelerating. The Elise on the other hand just doesnt induce the desire to chase the end of fifth gear as to be honest all it's fun is had in lower gears (not a suggestion that chimps aren't fun in lower gears, just that they are capable of and induce a desire for the sorts of speed that would provide the Burnside with their weekly 'clocked one at 150 story').
All IMHO off course, just hope my numbers come up so I can put a chimp in garage with the elise and feel complete - need a bigger garage 1st though.
MROL
Edited by mrol on Tuesday 8th January 01:22
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff