S2000 to Chimaera
Discussion
I'm toying with the idea of changing my S2000 for a Chimaera. Has anyone on here owned both? What are your thoughts on the driving and ownership experiences? I've read a few previous posts on here although most are from a good few years ago before Chimaeras reached full on classic status and not really relevant to how I'd use the car.
I've had my S2000 for the last 18 years, it's a second car that does about 1000 miles per year and is stored in the winter. Other than washing, it's only been wet twice in the last decade! Conditions will be the same for Chim.
Whatever I buy, I'd be doing the bulk of the maintenance myself. I'm reasonably competent and have done always done all work on my Honda. I've done things like replace the subframe and re-bush all of the suspension in the past and am in the habit of maintaining / improving over the winter and driving in the summer. Is it realistic to expect a Chim to cost about the same to maintain both in money and time or will I be letting myself in for significantly more time spent in my garage swearing at a car that won't run properly?
Will I notice much difference between a 4.0 or 4.5 Chim?
Is the TVR car club forum well used? Is that where most club meets are arranged?
Interested to hear peoples thoughts.
I've had my S2000 for the last 18 years, it's a second car that does about 1000 miles per year and is stored in the winter. Other than washing, it's only been wet twice in the last decade! Conditions will be the same for Chim.
Whatever I buy, I'd be doing the bulk of the maintenance myself. I'm reasonably competent and have done always done all work on my Honda. I've done things like replace the subframe and re-bush all of the suspension in the past and am in the habit of maintaining / improving over the winter and driving in the summer. Is it realistic to expect a Chim to cost about the same to maintain both in money and time or will I be letting myself in for significantly more time spent in my garage swearing at a car that won't run properly?
Will I notice much difference between a 4.0 or 4.5 Chim?
Is the TVR car club forum well used? Is that where most club meets are arranged?
Interested to hear peoples thoughts.
I've only driven an S2000 briefly but really enjoyed it.
Comparable performance to a 400, and an epic noise when the Vtec kicks in.
I can only recommend test driving a Chim to see what you think really.
The 450 is seen as a sweet spot as it offers good performance with a strong engine but a fully sorted 400 won't be far-away from it in reality.
The 500 is the one to go for for effortless performance but some engines are known to have issues.
The Chimaera Facebook group is actually very good and always active.
Comparable performance to a 400, and an epic noise when the Vtec kicks in.
I can only recommend test driving a Chim to see what you think really.
The 450 is seen as a sweet spot as it offers good performance with a strong engine but a fully sorted 400 won't be far-away from it in reality.
The 500 is the one to go for for effortless performance but some engines are known to have issues.
The Chimaera Facebook group is actually very good and always active.
Edited by Belle427 on Friday 1st September 13:21
Edited by Belle427 on Friday 1st September 15:28
I haven't driven a S2000, so can't give any point of view on comparison, but your point about swearing at a car depends on a number of factors.
A lot of the Chimaeras you'll see for sale (Facebook as well as on here) mention the typical pain points, the two biggest I considered were the state of the chassis and the level of rebuild the engine has gone through. I and many others favour mechanical condition before cosmetics - it's a fibreglass body, so it won't rust, that's the concern for the chassis - yet proper chassis reconditioning costs a similar amount to a full respray.
Mine has been pretty much rebuilt, yet I still had to replace some older parts that were working fine when I bought it a year ago, and inevitably you can send yourself into a financial black hole of improvements (a popular one is the ECU/management system upgrades, along with ignition system upgrades), but that depends on how deep your pockets are.
There are a few examples for sale where the owner has spent £30k over the years, yet is selling for nearer £18k, so you can get a well sorted car for a potentially comfortable budget.
There is a very helpful community both on here and on Facebook, the enthusiasm is big, and the knowledge you can tap into is brilliant.
Enjoy the research, get out and drive a few, and get a feel for the cars!
A lot of the Chimaeras you'll see for sale (Facebook as well as on here) mention the typical pain points, the two biggest I considered were the state of the chassis and the level of rebuild the engine has gone through. I and many others favour mechanical condition before cosmetics - it's a fibreglass body, so it won't rust, that's the concern for the chassis - yet proper chassis reconditioning costs a similar amount to a full respray.
Mine has been pretty much rebuilt, yet I still had to replace some older parts that were working fine when I bought it a year ago, and inevitably you can send yourself into a financial black hole of improvements (a popular one is the ECU/management system upgrades, along with ignition system upgrades), but that depends on how deep your pockets are.
There are a few examples for sale where the owner has spent £30k over the years, yet is selling for nearer £18k, so you can get a well sorted car for a potentially comfortable budget.
There is a very helpful community both on here and on Facebook, the enthusiasm is big, and the knowledge you can tap into is brilliant.
Enjoy the research, get out and drive a few, and get a feel for the cars!
Buy on condition, as these cars may have been altered by now (a lot will be far better than when they left the factory, but others won't have been cared for). You will need to check the steel chassis carefully. Even if outriggers have been done, there are other areas that only get exposed with a body off refurb.
NO roll over or side protection. This may be very important to you/family.
I test drove a 4ltr & 4.5ltr & bought the 4.5ltr. It's a stronger engine, & you do notice the extra power & torque. Exhaust (sound) options available.
Chimeras will benefit from being used more than standing around.
Honda build quality will be way better. You may get lots of niggly faults with the TVR (not necessarily stranding you, mine never did), but finding something else that needs looking at. Mechanicals & brakes are relatively simple (it's a parts bin).
Later cars, got various improvements (larger bonnet vents, a chin strip to reduce lift etc).
A good 4ltr will be better than a poor 4.5ltr. See if engine work done from a well known, respected source. On a run I got about 25mpg.
You won't find many Chims with aircon. Some will have power steering. Clutches can vary from very stiff to quite light. It can get very warm in the Chim's cockpit. This can be fine on winter, spring & autumn days, but without aircon, bit too warm on summer days/in traffic.
Honda roof will be better made & take less time to fold down (but more expensive if it goes wrong).
Chim points;-
Extra torque (& being lighter) will be one of the biggest factors/benefits (& V8 sound). The S2000 (from friends who've had them) say its either all off or on, which can prove wearing. The Chim's torque makes it a great GT car, you don't have to keep changing down.
More leg & head room.
PLG road fund licence classification, so should be cheaper.
Has a large boot, although the (spacesaver) spare wheel will be in there, along with CD player & possibly battery (if it's been relocated).
Windscreen & bulkhead waterproof seals should be checked thoroughly as the sealant can contract, look good but let water into/electric issues.
Depending on if the window is up or down, you may find more airflow coming in at foot level.
Check Alarms & immobilisers work thoroughly, as anything original is getting old. I had Carl Baker (a recognised specialist) change mine ASAP as part of maintenance/peace of mind. Older systems can get erratic/problematic.
Check electric mirror housings haven't dropped. There's a part of the insides that breaks. It's known about, & fixes available.
Cams need doing approx every 50-60k miles. You should be able to hear it at tickover, but being a torquey engine/light car, it may still seem to be ok.
Headlights worse, but there are fixes for this.
Original wheels have reduced tyres available. Some owners have put aftermarket wheels on for looks/give more tyre options.
Can't say ref forums or club meets. There are Regional meets, usually once a month, as well as National Meets.
Others more knowledgeable will be able to fill in the gaps/answer your other queries.
Thanks for the replies and information.
The whole crash protection thing is playing on my mind at the minute. Even though I'm doing limited mileage on mainly quiet roads and so far not come into contact with anything (touch wood, shouldn't tempt fate really), it's still something to think about.
The engine and lazy low down torque are big plus points for me. The S2000 is great when you're in the mood, but you have to take it to the red line with each gear change to get any kind of performance. It's great fun and sounds great, but gets a bit tiring on a long drive.
I was looking at tyres - I think the rear are the same size as the 16" alloys I have - 225/50/16? Expensive and very little choice. I'd imagine there is even less for the 15" fronts?
I searched for groups on facebook and there seem to be loads of them. Is there any particular national or North West ones that get the most posts? I tried joining the "chimaera owners and enthusiasts" one a week or so ago but never got a reply.
The whole crash protection thing is playing on my mind at the minute. Even though I'm doing limited mileage on mainly quiet roads and so far not come into contact with anything (touch wood, shouldn't tempt fate really), it's still something to think about.
The engine and lazy low down torque are big plus points for me. The S2000 is great when you're in the mood, but you have to take it to the red line with each gear change to get any kind of performance. It's great fun and sounds great, but gets a bit tiring on a long drive.
I was looking at tyres - I think the rear are the same size as the 16" alloys I have - 225/50/16? Expensive and very little choice. I'd imagine there is even less for the 15" fronts?
I searched for groups on facebook and there seem to be loads of them. Is there any particular national or North West ones that get the most posts? I tried joining the "chimaera owners and enthusiasts" one a week or so ago but never got a reply.
adavy said:
Have had both. Chimaera = torque and effortless, buy on condition. S2000 revs and more revs and price appreciating but lacking character
I think once you have owned a car with a wonderful sounding engine everything else is spoiled for you.Ive not long bought a Lotus Elise 111R and although its a wonderful thing to drive its not really floating my boat and lacks something for me.
A Supercharged conversion for the Honda would appeal to me!
That's the facebook group I tried to join, but the request just goes unanswered. Either there's only one admin and they're on holiday, or I'm already unpopular! 
If you could get an S2000 with a V8, I'd be there! There's not that many 6 or 8 cylinder convertibles that are fun to drive and won't be a depreciation disaster. Well not at a reasonable price anyway. I'll hopefully get a look at a few Chims over the next few weeks and see how they compare. I'm mainly looking for 4.5's on the thought that whatever I buy, it will hopefully be well sorted by the time I've had it a few years.
If you could get an S2000 with a V8, I'd be there! There's not that many 6 or 8 cylinder convertibles that are fun to drive and won't be a depreciation disaster. Well not at a reasonable price anyway. I'll hopefully get a look at a few Chims over the next few weeks and see how they compare. I'm mainly looking for 4.5's on the thought that whatever I buy, it will hopefully be well sorted by the time I've had it a few years.
These guys maybe worth a visit if they have something you like as you could try the different engine variants, they will allow you to inspect the cars thoroughly too.
The 450 is harder to find but well worth waiting for.
https://www.amoreautos.co.uk/
The 450 is harder to find but well worth waiting for.
https://www.amoreautos.co.uk/
5th Gear did a piece about S2000 vs Chimaera vs Caterham 7
https://youtu.be/To9td6jaO0E?si=xlSP_aSyjOBQidq_
The Chim is mine in this clip
https://youtu.be/To9td6jaO0E?si=xlSP_aSyjOBQidq_
The Chim is mine in this clip
MrMediumTallMan said:
Will I notice much difference between a 4.0 or 4.5 Chim?
Is the TVR car club forum well used? Is that where most club meets are arranged?
Interested to hear peoples thoughts.
As others have said, on the roads I don't think you'll notice much difference between a 4.0 and a 4.5 20 years down the road from when the last ones rolled out the factory. On a track it might be a different story.Is the TVR car club forum well used? Is that where most club meets are arranged?
Interested to hear peoples thoughts.
Mine is a 4.0, but with ported and polished heads, a lumpy cam, MBE ECU and Clive F manifolds. It will I expect make more power than a standard 4.5 on its original engine. And probably has better road manners.
I personally don't use the TVRCC forum much, but it is there for researching 'stuff' if you need it. Regional activities where I am (Devon) are frequent, but much depends on the RO and his deputies. We have a good one currently, which is a big change from the previous one who didn't do much at all. There's an evening beer and a burger once a month (summer and winter), and probably a couple of weekend run outs during the summer months to local car meets, breakfast get togethers and the like.
So basically local TVRCC activities depend on the local team. You'll get an idea of who the active ones are by looking at the reports in the back of Sprint. No write ups? Not much happening.
I'm assuming from your posts you're NW based. Where abouts are you? It may be worth visiting the local club night. If the URL isn't open for none members and the details you need aren't in the table below reply and I can message the regional organiser.
I'm in the Manchester area and have a 450 I bought it thinking it was the better performing variant that I thought would be easier to live with and maintain vs a 500. As above individual cars will be better than others so a 400 could easily be better than a 450 however if you're planning to maintain and improve whatever you but a 450 should be easier to sell and for more money. One of the members in the Manchester.... group has an S2000 and a Chim, if you're in the area he may be worth talking to for a comparison.
There's a comparison between the Honda and a 4.3 Griff here
| Area | Location | when |
|---|---|---|
| Blackpool | Kingfisher Tavern Kirkham PR4 2DZ | 2nd Thursday from 7.00pm |
| Lancashire | The Rigbye Arms Wrightington WN6 9QB | 1st Wednesday of the month from 7.15pm |
| Manchester, Mersyside, Cheshire | The Slow & Easy Northwich CW9 7PJ | 2nd Tuesday from 7.30pm meeting starting at 8pm |
| North Staffordshire | ????? | I can message for details if you need |
| Cumbria North | ????? | Last Sunday of month |
| Cumbria South | ????? | ???? |
I'm in the Manchester area and have a 450 I bought it thinking it was the better performing variant that I thought would be easier to live with and maintain vs a 500. As above individual cars will be better than others so a 400 could easily be better than a 450 however if you're planning to maintain and improve whatever you but a 450 should be easier to sell and for more money. One of the members in the Manchester.... group has an S2000 and a Chim, if you're in the area he may be worth talking to for a comparison.
There's a comparison between the Honda and a 4.3 Griff here
Despite loads of searching, I've not seen either of those links before. A common but slightly negative report on the S2000 by Hagerty. Mine almost caught me out once or twice when I first got it, but a load of new suspension bushes and regular geo's mean I've not really been aware of the snappy behavior since then, although I rarely drive close to the limit.
Interesting thoughts about the 4.0 vs the 4.5. There are a small number of 4.5s advertised at the moment, but there is a lot more choice if going for a 4.0, so more chance of finding one in great condition.
I was surprised how many adverts talk about cam changes. There are also a huge number of tvrs with mileage inconsistencies in their MOT history and a lot advertised with plates hiding their reg number. I read a few things about problems with the odometer making it hard to know the true mileage, scary if paying extra for a low miles example.
I've heard other good things about Amore. Almost all vendors well known for TVRs are down south!
I'm located just south of Stockport, 50 minutes from the Slow and Easy. I can see the map in the link and the RO's email addresses. Will they mind if I email them and invite myself along to one of the meets?
Interesting thoughts about the 4.0 vs the 4.5. There are a small number of 4.5s advertised at the moment, but there is a lot more choice if going for a 4.0, so more chance of finding one in great condition.
I was surprised how many adverts talk about cam changes. There are also a huge number of tvrs with mileage inconsistencies in their MOT history and a lot advertised with plates hiding their reg number. I read a few things about problems with the odometer making it hard to know the true mileage, scary if paying extra for a low miles example.
I've heard other good things about Amore. Almost all vendors well known for TVRs are down south!
I'm located just south of Stockport, 50 minutes from the Slow and Easy. I can see the map in the link and the RO's email addresses. Will they mind if I email them and invite myself along to one of the meets?
People tend to buy and not get too hung up on cam changes as the car makes all the right noises and its difficult to tell really in all honesty.
Stand out cars are few and far between in my experience, some owners are fastidious and others not so due to the costs involved in keeping them tip top.
They do pop up now and again though, if you could find one with a modern engine management upgrade that would be the icing on the cake.
Stand out cars are few and far between in my experience, some owners are fastidious and others not so due to the costs involved in keeping them tip top.
They do pop up now and again though, if you could find one with a modern engine management upgrade that would be the icing on the cake.
Its an analogue vs digital comparison with the TVR being analogue.
If you are hands on, you'll have no problem looking after the TVR. Get one thats had the outriggers done, or budget for doing it. Buy based on condition. Good upgrades to look out for are an igntion / injection upgrade, from a Tornado chip to a complete new system. Exhaust upgrade, eg Clive Y piece, and newish dampers.
Headlamps aren't great - if you plan to use the car in the evening, consider one with a headlamp upgrade. Personally I didn't like the looks of either the Lupo or the Tuscan headlamp conversions, but the final version with the faired in headlamps was my favourite.
I had no doubts over crash strength. The character / noise of the car makes up for a lot of things!
Mine let me down twice. Once when the radiator burst, which was a relatively re-core job and second time was when a nearly new coil failed.
Recommendation for a new Chimaera owner - if the fusebox is still in its original position in the passenger footwell, invest in a set of LED fuses, so if you have a failure, its easy to spot which one it is.
If you are hands on, you'll have no problem looking after the TVR. Get one thats had the outriggers done, or budget for doing it. Buy based on condition. Good upgrades to look out for are an igntion / injection upgrade, from a Tornado chip to a complete new system. Exhaust upgrade, eg Clive Y piece, and newish dampers.
Headlamps aren't great - if you plan to use the car in the evening, consider one with a headlamp upgrade. Personally I didn't like the looks of either the Lupo or the Tuscan headlamp conversions, but the final version with the faired in headlamps was my favourite.
I had no doubts over crash strength. The character / noise of the car makes up for a lot of things!
Mine let me down twice. Once when the radiator burst, which was a relatively re-core job and second time was when a nearly new coil failed.
Recommendation for a new Chimaera owner - if the fusebox is still in its original position in the passenger footwell, invest in a set of LED fuses, so if you have a failure, its easy to spot which one it is.
Edited by andrewcliffe on Monday 4th September 19:37
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