Electric window motor lubrication

[Dalamar]

I've seen a few posts that suggest lubricating the window motor through the two plastic caps (see below and the other cap is on the other side of the housing) can help improve the drive of the windows.



Could I please have people's thoughts on whether this is still recommended and the best spray to use? I was thinking of using the WD-40 High Performance PTFE spray.

[Steve_D]

Just looked inside one and all I can see is windings.
If I really had to lubricate one then the only way I would do it is with the motor stood on its end and use a spray can with a straw.
I cant see it ending well if you tried it with the motor installed.
Why do you think it needs lubricating?

Steve

[Dalamar]

Steve_D said:

Just looked inside one and all I can see is windings.
If I really had to lubricate one then the only way I would do it is with the motor stood on its end and use a spray can with a straw.
I cant see it ending well if you tried it with the motor installed.
Why do you think it needs lubricating?

Steve

Just info from old posts. I was thinking there may be a bearing at the top that could be lubricated and I could tackle it while I have the door cards off. Otherwise I'll just leave it be. I've managed to clean and re-grease the usual areas and now it goes down and back up in 12 secs so I think that's good enough.

Still have lots of wiring and poor connectors to sort out before I replace the cards.

[skiver.]

Lots of info on this if you use the search facility on here.

[ChimpOnGas]

Steve_D said:

Just looked inside one and all I can see is windings.
If I really had to lubricate one then the only way I would do it is with the motor stood on its end and use a spray can with a straw.
I cant see it ending well if you tried it with the motor installed.
Why do you think it needs lubricating?

Steve

Ordinarily I'd agree with the above, indeed because of this I've long ignored people who suggested spraying a lubricant into those holes.

However!

I had to remove my door card the other day because believe it or not my mobile phone fell into the door, unbelievable but completely true

With the door card off I found myself looking at those little plastic bungs on the wiper motor, and given my drivers side window was becoming painfully slow in a moment of madness I removed the bungs and put two short blasts of Tool Station penetrating oil in there.

https://www.toolstation.com/penetrating-oil/p62311

I immediately decided I'd made a stupid mistake, it's an electric motor for heavens sake, what was I thinking spraying penetrating oil over its armature, brushes and commutator

Fully expecting a short I tentatively touched the switch, and luckily the window went down with no smoke, sparks or blown fuses..... Few, that was lucky so I put the window back up. Hmmmmm , did I imagine that or did it go up a little faster than normal? Surely not, so I went down again then back up, begger me tha'ts definitely faster!!!!

So I go up and down ten times and each time the damn this gets faster and faster!!! I kid you not .

OMG spraying lubricant into the motor actually worked, and worked really well too

That was a few weeks ago now and the window is still shooting up and down like never before, I've had the car for 10 years and in that time I've had the door card off and greased the entire mechanism twice which did help a bit, but nothing like this spraying penetrating oil in the motor trick.

I still can't argue with Steve's point about spraying oil on an electric motor because its just plain wrong, but I am also forced to accept what happened when I did just that. My guess is there are greased gears in there too and the grease goes hard over the years, my quick spray of penetrating oil softened this hardened grease and this is what dramatically improved the speed?

However it works I now have to accept what felt so wrong...... was actually soooo right

[Penelope Stopit]

The motor will split from the gear housing if you remove the 2 screws and will remain in one piece with the brush-box intact, it's an easy job to service the motor once reaching this stage.
The tricky bit is the dismantling of the gear housing, the rivets can be ground off and the cover plate will then come away from the housing and allow servicing of the drive end gear and Bush/bearing (almost certain to be a bush but...), the cover can be refitted by drilling out the rivets and using screws

Here is a link to 4 complete very cheap BMW e28 window motors with gear housings that use the same motor as the Chimaera
https://www.e28.nl/product/bmw-e9-e12-e28-power-wi...

Be quick

[Redspitfire]

https://youtu.be/BbjgMd1Bnn0

[Redspitfire]

I have been looking at working on my windows and found the above recently. He uses spray in the motor.
Hope the link works. I’m new at this.

[ianwayne]

Penelope Stopit said:

The motor will split from the gear housing if you remove the 2 screws and will remain in one piece with the brush-box intact, it's an easy job to service the motor once reaching this stage.
The tricky bit is the dismantling of the gear housing, the rivets can be ground off and the cover plate will then come away from the housing and allow servicing of the drive end gear and Bush/bearing (almost certain to be a bush but...), the cover can be refitted by drilling out the rivets and using screws

Here is a link to 4 complete very cheap BMW e28 window motors with gear housings that use the same motor as the Chimaera
https://www.e28.nl/product/bmw-e9-e12-e28-power-wi...

Be quick

Loads of TX1 taxi motors on ebay at under £20 each delivered:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LONDON-TAXIS-LTI-TX1-TX...f:0

You need the passenger n/s for the TVR driver's side and vice versa.

[Penelope Stopit]

Redspitfire said:

I have been looking at working on my windows and found the above recently. He uses spray in the motor.
Hope the link works. I’m new at this.

The mans an idiot, only idiots spray lubricant into assembled motors

[Penelope Stopit]

ianwayne said:

Penelope Stopit said:

The motor will split from the gear housing if you remove the 2 screws and will remain in one piece with the brush-box intact, it's an easy job to service the motor once reaching this stage.
The tricky bit is the dismantling of the gear housing, the rivets can be ground off and the cover plate will then come away from the housing and allow servicing of the drive end gear and Bush/bearing (almost certain to be a bush but...), the cover can be refitted by drilling out the rivets and using screws

Here is a link to 4 complete very cheap BMW e28 window motors with gear housings that use the same motor as the Chimaera
https://www.e28.nl/product/bmw-e9-e12-e28-power-wi...

Be quick

Loads of TX1 taxi motors on ebay at under £20 each delivered:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LONDON-TAXIS-LTI-TX1-TX...f:0

You need the passenger n/s for the TVR driver's side and vice versa.

Good find

[Dalamar]

Penelope Stopit said:

The mans an idiot, only idiots spray lubricant into assembled motors

I have to admit the engineer in me cringes at the thought of spraying penetrating oil onto windings. I'll give it a miss and use the standard methods...

[Penelope Stopit]

Dalamar said:

Penelope Stopit said:

The mans an idiot, only idiots spray lubricant into assembled motors

I have to admit the engineer in me cringes at the thought of spraying penetrating oil onto windings. I'll give it a miss and use the standard methods...

The engineer in you has once again made the correct choice
The downside of social media is that people are able to flood it with ********, some of the posts in this topic are hilarious
Good luck in dismantling your motors if you choose to do so, the job is easier than it looks and very satisfying once completed

[phillpot]

Penelope Stopit said:

The mans an idiot, only idiots spray lubricant into assembled motors

i take it you've not read C on G's post a way up?

[Steve_D]

phillpot said:

Penelope Stopit said:

The mans an idiot, only idiots spray lubricant into assembled motors

i take it you've not read C on G's post a way up?

Maybe/maybe not. Still stands that spraying oil onto a motors brushes and commutator will result in the oil burning and glazing the commutator in the long term. Perhaps those who have done this either have not done it to long ago or they have not run the motor much.

Steve

[Dalamar]

Penelope Stopit said:

Good find

Is it possible to remove the motor and gearbox (basically the item below) and leave the brush-box, slide rails etc in place?

I was thinking I might be able to undo the 3x hex nuts in the picture below, disconnect the wiring and release the motor from the brass coloured backing plate. Maybe prop the window just in case it drops. That way I can take the unit back into the house to refurbish it.

[Penelope Stopit]

Dalamar said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Good find

Is it possible to remove the motor and gearbox (basically the item below) and leave the brush-box, slide rails etc in place?

I was thinking I might be able to undo the 3x hex nuts in the picture below, disconnect the wiring and release the motor from the brass coloured backing plate. Maybe prop the window just in case it drops. That way I can take the unit back into the house to refurbish it.

You may not have enough room to pull the motor drive shaft out of the window mechanism wheel-box but yes it is definitely worth giving it a go, those 3 screws are all that hold the motor onto the plate

See https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Dalamar]

Well I still wasn't happy with the window movement as it was almost stalling in a couple of places. Decided to take the plunge and remove the winding mechanism, take it inside the house and fully clean/rebuild it.

Yes it was a pain to remove and re-setup afterwards but definitely worth it. Plus I know a lot more about this tricky mechanism.

It turns out that the reason the mechanism was stalling was that a previous owner had tried to 'open' the tubular rail that contains the spiral wire with a screwdriver of some sort. Sorry I don't have a picture to hand but the tubular rail had sharp creases in it where the screwdriver edge had distorted the metal and this was fouling the carriage that moves up and down.

A few minutes of careful squeezing in the vice and some fine wet and dry addressed that problem. The other issue was that the M6 bolt head nearest this rail on the carriage would foul going up and down so this was replaced with an M6 countersunk set screw.

Cleaned and regreased all the runners and usual areas.

Finally the motor was removed from the mechanism and opened up.


I removed the remains of the dried out grease and applied new to the worm drive. Also, noted 3 surfaces along the shaft that were dry and needed lubrication with grease too. I understand now how people see an improvement in the motor function when lots of lubricant is sprayed through those holes at the top. It travels down over the windings and commutator (cringe), along the motor shaft, past the rubber seal and then along the worm drive to the bottom bearing. It must take a lot of spray to achieve this!


The square drive on mine turned easily by hand so I didn't go any further but just rebuilt the motor assembly. Motor operates nicely now.

Finally refitted and spent ages getting the position of the window as best as possible. No grinding noises now, no stalling. Still a bit slow on the way up but acceptable. Full cycle takes 11 secs now so I'll tick that job off.

[ianwayne]

Well done. I've messed with them a lot on 2 x Chimaeras. You can think you've sorted it because you test it with the door open. Get in, close the door so that there is tension against the glass because it goes up and down in a slight curve (thanks TVR) and there is pressure against one side of the rear glass guide on the way down that transfers to the other side about half way.

Mine will go up and down under battery power only with the door open. With the door closed, it is VERY slow in the bottom half of travel even with the engine running and therefore more power available.

The only way usually is to replace the motor, so I hope the solution for you is lasting. Used was OK on my last one from a TX1 taxi breaker.

[ChimpOnGas]

Dalamar said:

I removed the remains of the dried out grease and applied new to the worm drive. Also, noted 3 surfaces along the shaft that were dry and needed lubrication with grease too. I understand now how people see an improvement in the motor function when lots of lubricant is sprayed through those holes at the top. It travels down over the windings and commutator (cringe), along the motor shaft, past the rubber seal and then along the worm drive to the bottom bearing. It must take a lot of spray to achieve this!

ChimpOnGas said:

I still can't argue with Steve's point about spraying oil on an electric motor because its just plain wrong, but I am also forced to accept what happened when I did just that. My guess is there are greased gears in there too and the grease goes hard over the years, my quick spray of penetrating oil softened this hardened grease and this is what dramatically improved the speed?

Definitely a case of proceed with caution