ARIEL VS ULTIMA VS RADICAL

ARIEL VS ULTIMA VS RADICAL

Author
Discussion

FRANSYL

Original Poster:

10 posts

204 months

Sunday 10th February 2008
quotequote all
Hello, I'm a frenchie thinking that the best trackdays cars are british.
I have an Hommell,in the future I want one off these : ultima, radical or ariel So, to guide my choice : on a track, what is the best ? Radical SR3 ? because its weight, I suppose, but my really heart beat for the ultima because its looks like a real car . Your opinion in cost, pleasure, efficiency ... vs these 3 cars . THANKS

fish

3,998 posts

289 months

Friday 25th April 2008
quotequote all
Sorry no one has replied quickly. I would suggest looking at forum.atomclub.com the cars you has raised are very different;

Radical lighweight aero downforce, Atom no aero lighweight, ultima american V8 reasionably lighweight.

Me I'd go for the Atom as mechanical grip only does make things interesting.

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Friday 25th April 2008
quotequote all
Radical is the only one that is based around a race car! Radical was a race car builder before anything else, before trackdays existed!

Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.

Ultimas, they are still running with spaceframe chassis, Le Mans looks with a "engineeringly" flawed chassis perhaps IMHO? Why haven't they developed into semi-monocoques yet?

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Friday 25th April 2008
quotequote all
absolutely said:
Radical is the only one that is based around a race car! Radical was a race car builder before anything else, before trackdays existed!

Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.

Ultimas, they are still running with spaceframe chassis, Le Mans looks with a "engineeringly" flawed chassis perhaps IMHO? Why haven't they developed into semi-monocoques yet?
How close have you been to an Atom?

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Friday 25th April 2008
quotequote all
John Lloyd said:
absolutely said:
Radical is the only one that is based around a race car! Radical was a race car builder before anything else, before trackdays existed!

Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.

Ultimas, they are still running with spaceframe chassis, Le Mans looks with a "engineeringly" flawed chassis perhaps IMHO? Why haven't they developed into semi-monocoques yet?
How close have you been to an Atom?
Too close for comfort! I would buy a proper racing car sooner than I'd buy an Atom! I saw the original LSC!
But I will have this post removed if I type anything slanderous or libel. I have my sources of information.

Edited by absolutely on Friday 25th April 22:33

atomfun

911 posts

238 months

Saturday 26th April 2008
quotequote all
absolutely said:
Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.
Bad stories about what?

The handling?
The reliability?
The build quality?
The performance?

How does 'what you know' impact on the Atom in the real world?

.... or just plain 'ole gossup - 'I was down the pub last night and my mate told me, blah, blah, blah ...... and he got that from someone who works at Ariel'

You're not even sure that what you state you know is true, as you offered to remove your post if it was considered slander or libel! So what is it, truth or lies?

Slander
the act or offence of saying something false or malicious that damages somebody's reputation.

Libel
a false and malicious published statement that damages somebody's reputation. Libel can include pictures and any other representations that have public or permanent form.

I would suggest that if you're unsure of your facts, don't even refer to them.

Edited by atomfun on Saturday 26th April 07:46


Edited by atomfun on Saturday 26th April 07:46


Edited by atomfun on Saturday 26th April 07:52

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Saturday 26th April 2008
quotequote all
atomfun said:
absolutely said:
Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.
Bad stories about what?

The handling?
The reliability?
The build quality?
The performance?

How does 'what you know' impact on the Atom in the real world?

.... or just plain 'ole gossup - 'I was down the pub last night and my mate told me, blah, blah, blah ...... and he got that from someone who works at Ariel'

You're not even sure that what you state you know is true, as you offered to remove your post if it was considered slander or libel! So what is it, truth or lies?

Slander
the act or offence of saying something false or malicious that damages somebody's reputation.

Libel
a false and malicious published statement that damages somebody's reputation. Libel can include pictures and any other representations that have public or permanent form.

I would suggest that if you're unsure of your facts, don't even refer to them.

Edited by atomfun on Saturday 26th April 07:46


Edited by atomfun on Saturday 26th April 07:46


Edited by atomfun on Saturday 26th April 07:52
Look up Coventry University Lightweight Sports Car, have a look at the "design" and who was the tutor in charge. I was tutored by one of the other members of staff involved in the project and have worked with several of the technical staff who told me the proper situation. The police have investigated the situation too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Atom

I know Wikipedia is not concrete, but it tells the story about Cov Uni.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=255...

There was an argument about it here too!

atomfun

911 posts

238 months

Saturday 26th April 2008
quotequote all
absolutely said:
Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.
Exactly that, STORIES perpetuated by people who have little better to do!

I guess you believe everything you read in the News of the World too?

Lets have your FACTS not hearsay. Perhaps you don't have any?

What was the outcome of the police investigation?

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Saturday 26th April 2008
quotequote all
atomfun said:
absolutely said:
Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.
Exactly that, STORIES perpetuated by people who have little better to do!

I guess you believe everything you read in the News of the World too?

Lets have your FACTS not hearsay. Perhaps you don't have any?

What was the outcome of the police investigation?
Hearsay, maybe, the police investigation proved inconclusive and Simon Saunders was allowed to build the car. If you see him (or maybe you are him) ask him why he resigned from Cov so quickly after taking charge of the patent/copyright?

I don't read the News of the World, please give me some credit.

I personally don't have the facts, I am too young before this all happened. I saw the car with my own eyes and read the reports that the students wrote. I saw the sketches done by the students, I was taught by one of the tutors involved.

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Sunday 27th April 2008
quotequote all
absolutely said:
Less said about Ariel the better, IMHO! I've heard alot of bad stories.
Just going back to this statement I assume this is made about the car from 10 years ago when it was first under develpoment. That's why we have an Atom 3 now as it has been improved.

I suggest you get in a 3 and see what a great drive it is.

Why the chip on your shoulder did you loose something that was yours or do you know people who did?

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Sunday 27th April 2008
quotequote all
John Lloyd said:
I suggest you get in a 3 and see what a great drive it is.

Why the chip on your shoulder did you loose something that was yours or do you know people who did?
I can't drive at all at the moment due to ill health, actually the recovery from a brain tumour removal. I wouldn't give Simon Saunders' product a moment of my time, I'd rather spend my time and money on something that was built as a racing car.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, I have a large dent about this topic. I know how much someone ripping of your idea or worse stealing the design hurts, those guys could have made millions from it, remember they were only about 22 back then, its near enough impossible to get a job in the design industry at the moment and to have the idea stolen by a trusted tutor to take it away must be heart wrenching and soul destroying!

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Sunday 27th April 2008
quotequote all
Glad you're recovering - whoever you are. I can only assume that the tumour is making you tetchy and hope that its removal offers you a better insight into the joy of life. I speak from a similarly life-changing experience.

Just to put the record straight.

THE FACTS.

Simon was a lecturer at Coventry on the transport design course.

He has always run his own design business (still does), and employed a number of students as 'work experience' staff - work experience being required by the course.

The drawings of the car which those students came up with as it appeared at the show and in Autocar - which bears some resemblance to the finished product, but has many, many differences - were the intellectual property of their employer and mentor, designer Simon Saunders.

The first appearance of the car was through Coventry University.

The car has since been developed, invested in and improved by Simon far beyond those drawings.

As to the original post, I think this is comparing oranges with sandstone with rainbows. They're all terrific things, but incomparable.

If you'd like a Nikki Smart design, may I point you at this - the SUB 3 wheeler?




Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Sunday 27th April 2008
quotequote all
Sorry, one more point...

absolutely said:
...those guys could have made millions from it...
You surely aren't serious about that... If you are, you have a very strange idea of how much money small car manufacturing companies make. To quote the classics: "To make a small fortune from car manufacture, first start with a big fortune."

anonymous-user

61 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
quotequote all
Absolutley - COCK

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
quotequote all
996RS_Man said:
Absolutley - COCK
996RS_Man (and all other Ariel owners) - Blinkered! There is no reason to get offensive over this! I'd defend my cars over anything else, I can see why you are all getting up-tight about it, but no one knows the true facts other than Simon Saunders and the students involved.

atomfun

911 posts

238 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
quotequote all
absolutely996RS_Man said:
(and all other Ariel owners) - Blinkered! There is no reason to get offensive over this! I'd defend my cars over anything else, I can see why you are all getting up-tight about it, but no one knows the true facts other than Simon Saunders and the students involved.
Of course we're all pationate about the cars we own however, you haven't attacked the car itself, you're just slurring the character of the man who designed it based on hearsay! Very thin ice I'd say.

You state and I quote:

"no one knows the true facts other than Simon Saunders and the students involved." Perhaps you should include the police too as, in one of your previous posts, you stated they'd investigated the matter and there was no case to answer.

So why do you attack the character of a man when you've stated you don't know the facts? You evidentaly are in possession of FACTS the police didn't hear?

Edited by atomfun on Thursday 1st May 13:00


Edited by atomfun on Thursday 1st May 13:17


Edited by atomfun on Thursday 1st May 13:43

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Friday 2nd May 2008
quotequote all
absolutely said:
John Lloyd said:
I suggest you get in a 3 and see what a great drive it is.

Why the chip on your shoulder did you loose something that was yours or do you know people who did?
I can't drive at all at the moment due to ill health, actually the recovery from a brain tumour removal. I wouldn't give Simon Saunders' product a moment of my time, I'd rather spend my time and money on something that was built as a racing car.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, I have a large dent about this topic. I know how much someone ripping of your idea or worse stealing the design hurts, those guys could have made millions from it, remember they were only about 22 back then, its near enough impossible to get a job in the design industry at the moment and to have the idea stolen by a trusted tutor to take it away must be heart wrenching and soul destroying!
Do the maths 500 cars x £30k is £15 million sounds alot, but thats turnover over a 10 year period. You were obviously a sleep during the lectures on running a business and IP. Even if Simon isn't the rightful owner of the IP I bet it isn't the students either usually the university owns it or a big chunk.

FRANSYL

Original Poster:

10 posts

204 months

Sunday 4th May 2008
quotequote all
I must tell you that I'm french. In france there are between 10 Ariel approved; one importer for Radical, but only for the track,not road legal, and I think that he had not ever sell one car; and for Ultima, I believe that is the desert (a white one was on sale a few month ago,expensive and not very smoothie )

Timsta

2,779 posts

253 months

Tuesday 20th May 2008
quotequote all
absolutely said:
Radical is the only one that is based around a race car!
You sure? http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/history/

absolutely

3,168 posts

199 months

Tuesday 20th May 2008
quotequote all
Timsta said:
absolutely said:
Radical is the only one that is based around a race car!
You sure? http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/history/
Almost certainly!
Article said:
Ford Cortina front uprights/brakes/steering, Austin Princess radiator and Renault front uprights/brakes on the rear. The V6 engine and transmission were taken from a Renault 30.
Since when have Princesses and Renault production cars been racing cars? I don't see much about racing until the late 80s in the article.

It was built with sportscar looks, one of the 1st ones raced with the SMRC in the early to mid 80s.

Lee Noble left the company...was he bored?