sunday times atom ruled out

sunday times atom ruled out

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Discussion

ctm

Original Poster:

137 posts

234 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
did you see this test?A touch unfair i think, however it was a silly thing to do.These guys on the tests do go into a lot of detail but they did say the atom was easily the quickest car and the only thing it could do to lose the contest was fit those tyres.An honest but silly mistake but we all know what one should have been the winner.S/CHARGED ARIEL ATOM.

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
Here's the link for our foriegn cousins:

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12389-1667864,00.html

Silly of the factory, really - they've fallen foul of this sort of thing before...

I'm sure Dunlop Rs would have given similar times, though...

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
I've just read the article. I think it's brilliant and raves about the Atom. Only if you read the last 2 paragraphs do you know the Atom is disqualified. The positive is the car can go back into the competion on road legal tyres and still win and be in the paper again.

Someone give the Times a ring!!. One comment is the weight is stated as 506kg. I thought the Atom is about 450kg? Also can anyone get any more details out of the factor on this test?

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
The Sunday Times said:
The rules were simple: the cars must be road legal in all respects and in a specification available to the public.


So, if those cut avons are road legal and available to the public, they're eligible, right? Something doesn't make sense here...

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
John Lloyd said:
One comment is the weight is stated as 506kg. I thought the Atom is about 450kg?


456kg on the website...

But that would mean over 600bhp per tonne and Caterham wouldn't like that...

Interestingly, there's no weight figure on the Caterham site...

>> Edited by Bruce Fielding on Sunday 26th June 12:46

datasafe

911 posts

238 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
It’s all so tantalisingly close isn’t it?!

What’s the most common question any kid asks you about the speed of your car? “what’s the nought to 60 mate?”

It would have been nice to be able to put your hand on your heart and been able to say, “this is the fastest production car nought to 60 in the world”. But we can’t quite say that.

Being an ex copper, of course I wouldn’t dream of saying such a thing

I used to ask the same question when I was a kid and it was this figure that either put it in the supercar league or not.

I thought it was a great article and adds to the ‘pose’ value no end!

I don’t know who makes the definitive decision on what is road legal and what isn’t, especially as far as tyres go. I guess there must be a rule somewhere which fundamentally rules these tyres used in the test as not road legal. It would be good to find the reason why and even better if it could be proven they are in fact road legal.

Great article, saved and printed and filed in the box with everything else Atom.

JC

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
Living near to Goodwood I spent the afternoon cruising round the area. I saw every fast car there is (excuse spelling) Ferraries, Porches, Lotus, Nobels, Caterham, Bentleys pre war, Jags, Subarus everyfast car you want to see and more than once, but how many Atoms?? None except the one I was in no wonder every other "fast" car is pissed of. Common as muck they are. It seemed the look on other car drivers faces was different today. They all looked like "Hey there's that car I read about in the Times".

Who gives a S**t if it was disqualified. everyone knows it's the fastest. Reporter must own a Caterham!!!!

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Sunday 26th June 2005
quotequote all
Here is the AA view on tyres...

www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/legal/tyres.html

fast buck

238 posts

235 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
Great article! We are the champions! on the issue of the weight of the Atom, once you've got a full tank of petrol, a rear wing,supercharger and if your wheels aren't Mags then it will be over 500kilos.

atom120

268 posts

238 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
datasafe said:
I don’t know who makes the definitive decision on what is road legal and what isn’t, especially as far as tyres go. I guess there must be a rule somewhere which fundamentally rules these tyres used in the test as not road legal. It would be good to find the reason why and even better if it could be proven they are in fact road legal.

I'm a wee bit confused here - go to www.avonracing.com, click "race tyres" and then "road legal". That's where you find the ZZRs - in the road legal section - on Avon's website.

I've got a set of ZZRs in front of me now - and they've got the legal minimum amount of tread across the tyres, as well as wear indicators.

If Avon did indeed tell the ST that they never made road legal tyres in these dimensions, despite evidence to the contrary on their own website, then it looks like Ariel were done!

The correct response from the factory, in my opinion, would be to wait until the new Atom-specific completely road-legal tyres have been introduced with extra-soft compound rubber. Then, armed with a response to whatever Caterham may try whinging about, re-submit the car in the knowledge that it'll probably do it in sub 2.9 seconds!

John Lloyd

926 posts

238 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
This thread is quite fun on the Ultima forum. www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=189165&f=20&h=0

So far nothing from Caterham on Pistonheads. so I am off to see if they have anything on their own site.

atomic

150 posts

239 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
Are the front and rear wings road legal? If they are then would they have any effect on the 0-60 time (either way)?

Nick

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
See the cats licking up the cream:
www.blatchat.com/t.asp?Id=86483

Nick, AFAIK the rear spoiler is legal. The front I have no idea about - I take mine off in town to stop sleeping policemen from trashing it! In any case, the only difference they'd make 0-60 is to slow things down - extra weight and extra downforce.

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
Here's a giggle - go to blatchat and search the last year on 'ariel atom'... makes interesting reading from members of the Caterham 7 Owners Club!

coxm

174 posts

242 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
Isn't the rev limit at 8,850 in 220 / 300?

Only found one article on engine bay temperatures on Blatchat. That right?

MC

PS. They will be even more upset when Autocar publish the 0-100-0 article.

>> Edited by coxm on Monday 27th June 18:46

simonrockman

6,911 posts

262 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
It was a neat solution which let everyone win.
The Noble owners can feel smug because "let's see you drive it in the rain with a suit on".
The Caterham owners can feel smug because they won.
The Atom owners can feel smug because they *really* won.
Of course there is the issue as to how you classify a 'production' car. How many 300bhp Atoms have been built?

Simon

atom120

268 posts

238 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
But what REALLY annoys Crate owners is when they have to ring the Caterham factory for bits or advice ...and are left wishing they had someone on end the end of the phone who actually gave a damn!

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Monday 27th June 2005
quotequote all
coxm said:
Only found one article on engine bay temperatures on Blatchat. That right?


No - there's loads - including lots of comment on the Boxing Day TG! Search Chit Chat for the last 9 months...


O/T - Ariel Atom Insurance 9 Jun 2005 14:14:00 ChitChat
Why aren’t there any turbo charged Caterhams about? 31 May 2005 20:28:00 ChitChat
Does Clarkson really dislike Caterhams? 5 May 2005 18:31:00 ChitChat
CSR reviewed in Autocar 27 Apr 2005 08:18:00 ChitChat
To swap for series 1 exige or not 22 Apr 2005 22:16:00 ChitChat
R500 vs ATOM 11 Apr 2005 14:31:00 ChitChat
O/T : Ariel Atom article 31 Mar 2005 23:05:00 ChitChat
Ariel Atom on BBC Website 29 Mar 2005 14:49:00 ChitChat
CSR200 or Ariel Atom 23 Mar 2005 17:41:00 ChitChat
Collecting my first Caterham next week! 12 Mar 2005 08:38:00 ChitChat
Atom @ CC 7 Mar 2005 16:23:00 ChitChat
Seven Adverts 26 Jan 2005 22:26:00 ChitChat
Should the Caterham Management scrap the CSR 18 Jan 2005 23:02:00 ChitChat
O/T - What would Jesus Drive? 18 Jan 2005 08:09:00 ChitChat
Top Gear - Atom 9 Jan 2005 10:39:00 ChitChat
Why no Caterham on Top Gear 30 Dec 2004 08:44:00 ChitChat
Freestyle car in Track and Race car magazine 13 Dec 2004 21:26:00 ChitChat
Topgear Power Laps 13 Dec 2004 16:52:00 ChitChat
Evo Car of the Year - Spoiler/Rant 8 Dec 2004 10:02:00 ChitChat
Got my new toy yesterday... 1 Dec 2004 08:56:00 ChitChat
O/T; car heaven 28 Nov 2004 13:23:00 ChitChat
has anyone driven a.................................. 27 Nov 2004 17:53:00 ChitChat
Caterhams in computer games 27 Nov 2004 13:50:00 ChitChat
Track day weapon for a big driver... 10 Nov 2004 21:55:00 ChitChat
It's gone... 6 Nov 2004 17:41:00 ChitChat
Where can I find Jeremy Clarkson's cool/uncool list? 2 Nov 2004 16:16:00 ChitChat
Top Gear Track - R500 Evo lap time guesses? 2 Nov 2004 13:39:00 ChitChat
Do I slap my son on the back or put him across my knee? 29 Oct 2004 16:14:00 ChitChat
Am I mad or... 23 Oct 2004 22:58:00 ChitChat
New Aero 7 30 Sep 2004 16:02:00 ChitChat

dino ferrana

791 posts

259 months

Thursday 30th June 2005
quotequote all
Funny how the same car on the same surface in similar weather conditions was suddenly taking tenths out of its 0-60 times...

From what I understand from a guy "in the know" the Atom was fitted with hand cut slicks on the day. They were not road tyres and did not have an e-mark or any speed rating on them. They suspected the tyres were soft compund slicks with tread cut into them to appear as road tyres. Caterham were running with CR500s which are the standard tyre fitted to the CSR.

Not sure what the story is with the race car in the 0-100-0. It seems though that one of the runs in the ST test was quicker than the race cars 0-60 so the result may have been closer.

BTW the offical weight of the CSR is 575KG not the 650 that Autocar very inaccurately printed. What is the actual weight of the Atom300 I have seen it quoted between 450 and 500. I would have thought the 500 was more accurate as the supercharger assembly must make it heavier than the others?

I am not anti-Atom BTW I think it is great that there is a British specialist out there doing something different. Instead of ripping off Caterham they have done something different that seems to work well.

Bruce Fielding

2,244 posts

289 months

Thursday 30th June 2005
quotequote all
The Atom was actually running Avon ZZR's which are stock items, road legal and available from all good tyre stockists:

www.tyres-online.co.uk said:
New ZZR Boosts Avon's Trackday Line-Up

With the trackday market growing, Cooper-Avon has added an important new product to its road-legal circuit tyre range, the ZZR. It takes its place on the grid next to the ACB10 and CR500, race-bred tyres that have already made Avon a popular choice among Caterham owners.

Available in 15-, 16-, 17- and 18- inch sizes, the ZZR is a grooved slick and a genuine road-legal race tyre. It's tread compound isn't merely based on a racing compound - it's the same compound Avon uses for its Group N saloon racing tyre. With exceptional levels of grip, the super-stiff race spec carcass provides extremely fast steering response. The ZZR is also claimed to be very predictable and friendly on the limit

As for weight, the stock car is 456Kg, plus the few kilos of the supercharger - nowhere near the heavyweight that the ST claimed... Maybe they got their scales from a local greengrocer!