Goodwood 100605
Discussion
Great fun, unfortunantly on my own no Bruce. Did meet an Atom purchaser. Sorry have forgotten your name already. I'm c**P with names. But as usuall the only fun photos are the ones of me spinning.
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood031.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood030.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood028.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood024.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood031.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood030.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood028.jpg[/pic]
[pic]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/jess8623/Goodwood024.jpg[/pic]
Apologies for not making it JL - the dreaded w**k word cropped up and interfered with my plans! (That's an 'or' in the middle, not an 'an', thank you!)
That'll have been Richard that you met up with.
Goodwood is very fast and easy to spin on (so my wife claims having been summoned to the stewards having pirouetted a number of times!)
Are those pictures in the right order? It looks as though you're having a second crack at the Sierra!
Ah, well. I will be going to Goodwood - on Friday, though. Anyone else (apart from Richard C?)
That'll have been Richard that you met up with.
Goodwood is very fast and easy to spin on (so my wife claims having been summoned to the stewards having pirouetted a number of times!)
Are those pictures in the right order? It looks as though you're having a second crack at the Sierra!
Ah, well. I will be going to Goodwood - on Friday, though. Anyone else (apart from Richard C?)
orange7 said:Good grief! A member for three years with 18 posts - Orange... you are the guy for whom the expression 'lurker' was created!
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but spinning frequently on trackdays is not clever, chaps. Particularly at Goodwood IMHO.
Completely agree about Goodwood. However, the old expression, "if you're not spinning, you're not trying" is also true. The great thing about Atoms is that the spins are much more controlable (inasmuch as any spin is) than in a heavy saloon, so you can spin with more impunity. And if you're going to learn about the limits of a vehicle anywhere, a nice wide track populated with people who are all driving enthusiasts and therefore take more pride in their skills than average, and all going the same way, and with runoff and no pedestrians or wildlife to hit has to be a better place to discover the limits than the public road.
In my many years of experience, spins on track rarely collect company, and so I would say that whilst 'frequent' spins show a lack of learning through experience, the odd spin at a trackday does no harm at all and no organiser would take a tough line if a driver just had the odd spin or two in the course of a day.
Now I'm off to grab some Pimms laced with mistletoe, a small scythe and a pure white sheet and head for Primrose Hill...
Bruce,
If you were looking to pi$$ me off, you have succeeded. FYI, I rarely look at PH forums, as I am a member of other clubs with their own forums.
As I said, I am (maybe WAS, after this) interested in an Atom, and followed the link from the owners club.
I disagree completely with you, having been punted off track twice over the years (direct hit by someone else once (they span off one side and then speared back across the track), and avoiding action to miss someone spinning meant I hit a barrier the second time). Both painful and very expensive, and no redress from the third parties of course.
I am a fan of trackday companies that black flag anyone who spins in a given session, two spins and you are out for the day. It's a simple matter of taking responsibility for your actions and managing risk to others, in my view.
This thread is not a good advertisement for the car or the club IMHO. I'll leave you to your own life and get on with mine, I think.
If you were looking to pi$$ me off, you have succeeded. FYI, I rarely look at PH forums, as I am a member of other clubs with their own forums.
As I said, I am (maybe WAS, after this) interested in an Atom, and followed the link from the owners club.
I disagree completely with you, having been punted off track twice over the years (direct hit by someone else once (they span off one side and then speared back across the track), and avoiding action to miss someone spinning meant I hit a barrier the second time). Both painful and very expensive, and no redress from the third parties of course.
I am a fan of trackday companies that black flag anyone who spins in a given session, two spins and you are out for the day. It's a simple matter of taking responsibility for your actions and managing risk to others, in my view.
This thread is not a good advertisement for the car or the club IMHO. I'll leave you to your own life and get on with mine, I think.
orange7,
YHM. AS the originator of this thread I was posting about my day at Goodwood. This was my second spin and after discussion with the organisers and on my decision, not theirs, I finished my trackday after this spin at 3.15. The photos were taken by the company there on the day "right place right time". If you go to the Atom website you will see that I have posted all my photos of Goodwood not just these ones.
I do agree it is not clever to spin, but new to the car and trackdays it is easy. The cars are light and the back does come out very easily. I do not want you to feel we are all being irresponsible. Spins happen, but I do not do them on purpose.
YHM. AS the originator of this thread I was posting about my day at Goodwood. This was my second spin and after discussion with the organisers and on my decision, not theirs, I finished my trackday after this spin at 3.15. The photos were taken by the company there on the day "right place right time". If you go to the Atom website you will see that I have posted all my photos of Goodwood not just these ones.
I do agree it is not clever to spin, but new to the car and trackdays it is easy. The cars are light and the back does come out very easily. I do not want you to feel we are all being irresponsible. Spins happen, but I do not do them on purpose.
orange7 said:
Bruce,
If you were looking to pi$$ me off, you have succeeded. FYI, I rarely look at PH forums, as I am a member of other clubs with their own forums.
As I said, I am (maybe WAS, after this) interested in an Atom, and followed the link from the owners club.
I disagree completely with you, having been punted off track twice over the years (direct hit by someone else once (they span off one side and then speared back across the track), and avoiding action to miss someone spinning meant I hit a barrier the second time). Both painful and very expensive, and no redress from the third parties of course.
I am a fan of trackday companies that black flag anyone who spins in a given session, two spins and you are out for the day. It's a simple matter of taking responsibility for your actions and managing risk to others, in my view.
This thread is not a good advertisement for the car or the club IMHO. I'll leave you to your own life and get on with mine, I think.
What a shame. I rarely set out to piss someone off deliberately, and had no such intention in the case of your posting. Given your rather high-handed stance, though, in this instance, I think I'll make an exception.
I thought that I had challenged your position with a rounded and logical case. However, I see that I have touched a raw nerve here given the previous accidents in which you have been involved. I also appreciate that given your previous altercations might have been experienced in a car with virtually no side intrusion protection, that would naturally tend to sandpaper those nerves further.
Happily, had you been driving an Atom, you would unquestionably have been safer, and possibly more able to avoid the incidents in the first place. In the event of such incidents, had you been a member of the club and taken advantage of the trackday insurance we've negotiated for owners, at least you wouldn't have felt the full pain of no third party redress.
Of course, your opinion of the car and of the club is your own affair, and you're as free to express your views here as are we all. I would therefore say that I disagree that this thread is a bad advertisment for the club and the car. It shows someone with a dedication to excellence on the road learning the black art of delicate car control and being supported by fellow owners. All laudable in my view.
I haven't a clue who you are Orange7, but know that you shouldn't tar every spinning driver with the same brush as those in your orbit (or rather, those whose orbits you would have rather avoided).
>> Edited by Bruce Fielding on Wednesday 22 June 01:19
John,
Thnaks for your email. Please rest assured that I was not having a dig at you specifically, but rather the implication on various threads that spinning is clever. I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to get in touch and wish you all the best.
Bruce,
I find your posts in response quite remarkable and frankly unpleasant. You have no idea what type of car I was driving or the effect of the impacts. Calling some-one else "high handed" is a bit rich. No, you don't know me and from my point of you I hope you never will.
I will not be back, which is a shame as I was genuinely inerested in the Atom.
Thnaks for your email. Please rest assured that I was not having a dig at you specifically, but rather the implication on various threads that spinning is clever. I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to get in touch and wish you all the best.
Bruce,
I find your posts in response quite remarkable and frankly unpleasant. You have no idea what type of car I was driving or the effect of the impacts. Calling some-one else "high handed" is a bit rich. No, you don't know me and from my point of you I hope you never will.
I will not be back, which is a shame as I was genuinely inerested in the Atom.
John, you've just been Tango'd. (orange7)
But don't worry i loved your thread and your antics have given me the balls to start track days!
As a total beginner I probably don't have a right to say this but i've just changed my tyres to the new Dunlop R's and rear end lack of control is a thing of the past(although the curry from last night will soon be here) keep up the good work and will i see you at the UCC Atom day on the 10th?
But don't worry i loved your thread and your antics have given me the balls to start track days!
As a total beginner I probably don't have a right to say this but i've just changed my tyres to the new Dunlop R's and rear end lack of control is a thing of the past(although the curry from last night will soon be here) keep up the good work and will i see you at the UCC Atom day on the 10th?
fast buck said:Have you got rid of the Yoko539s - if not, don't! I swicthed to ZZRs a few weeks back, and the difference in grip is phenomenal! For the track, the cut slicks are ace and will take seconds off your lap times - but for the road, I actually reckon the 539s are more fun - and oddly enough, safer! Getting the rear out on the road with Formula-Rs will be tricky ...whereas the 539s weren't happy unless your arse was trying to overtake your nose!
As a total beginner I probably don't have a right to say this but i've just changed my tyres to the new Dunlop R's and rear end lack of control is a thing of the past
As far as JL's driving's concerned - I've been in the passenger seat with him (well, obviously not both in the passenger seat - he was in driv ....oh, you know what I mean...) - and yes, I've experienced one of his spins. As far as I'm concerned, it was a case him finding his own personal limit in the car - and he only went near his "limit" when there were no other cars near him on track. If you're going to push to your limit, there's a right and wrong way of doing it - and personally I've got no problems at all with JL's conduct during trackdays.
Crikey - I was a bit forthright last night wasn't I? Makes a nice change not to be PC occasionally...
Let me straighten a couple of things out. Firstly I am NOT advocating spinning for the hell of it on track days. I have seen tossers doing this and heartily disapprove. It's plain wrong, and black flags are usually the only solution to this kind of mindless lunacy.
I am, however, in favour of evolution. The instinct to be better than you are is why we're all not fish right now. If you enjoy driving in a spirited fashion, I see no harm whatsoever - and much that's good - in indulging the urge to be better at it than you currently are. For heaven's sake, I've been driving cars fast on racetracks since 1972 and I still think I could learn a thing or two (no Andy, not now...).
Car control is the key, but how can you tell what control you have over a car until you discover its limits? In the case of something like a Caterham or an Atom, that often results in a spin on track. So long as it's done without risk to others and in the genuine cause of honing and not hooning, I'm all for it.
I appreciate that Orange7 isn't going to be back and I apologise to the crew at Ariel if my attitude on this has lost them a sale, but frankly the only people who have met more Atom owners than me are Simon and Tom, so I think I have a pretty good idea about us. There is a definite DNA strand that all Atom owners possess which is not present in everyone.
JL certainly has it, and I admire his willingness to apply it in the pursuit of excellence on the road and track.
Oh, what the hell, one last crack... Watson, I deduce that this Orange fellow has the number 7 after his nom de plume, and that he spends time at some electronic gathering place named 'Blatchat' which is home to number of people who own and appreciate horseless carriages which originate in the Caterham area. Since there is a motor vehicle named the Caterham 7, it seems elementary to deduce that this young person has a fondness for such modes of transport. Hence my suspicion that the aforesaid rhymeless chap drives one of these floppy-sided conveyances.
It ain't rocket science...
Let me straighten a couple of things out. Firstly I am NOT advocating spinning for the hell of it on track days. I have seen tossers doing this and heartily disapprove. It's plain wrong, and black flags are usually the only solution to this kind of mindless lunacy.
I am, however, in favour of evolution. The instinct to be better than you are is why we're all not fish right now. If you enjoy driving in a spirited fashion, I see no harm whatsoever - and much that's good - in indulging the urge to be better at it than you currently are. For heaven's sake, I've been driving cars fast on racetracks since 1972 and I still think I could learn a thing or two (no Andy, not now...).
Car control is the key, but how can you tell what control you have over a car until you discover its limits? In the case of something like a Caterham or an Atom, that often results in a spin on track. So long as it's done without risk to others and in the genuine cause of honing and not hooning, I'm all for it.
I appreciate that Orange7 isn't going to be back and I apologise to the crew at Ariel if my attitude on this has lost them a sale, but frankly the only people who have met more Atom owners than me are Simon and Tom, so I think I have a pretty good idea about us. There is a definite DNA strand that all Atom owners possess which is not present in everyone.
JL certainly has it, and I admire his willingness to apply it in the pursuit of excellence on the road and track.
Oh, what the hell, one last crack... Watson, I deduce that this Orange fellow has the number 7 after his nom de plume, and that he spends time at some electronic gathering place named 'Blatchat' which is home to number of people who own and appreciate horseless carriages which originate in the Caterham area. Since there is a motor vehicle named the Caterham 7, it seems elementary to deduce that this young person has a fondness for such modes of transport. Hence my suspicion that the aforesaid rhymeless chap drives one of these floppy-sided conveyances.
It ain't rocket science...
alshack said:
John - as a complete aside, how tall are you
I am vertically challenged! If I told you I was 6 inches taller than my mother you would be impressed, but she was only 4' 11". But then we are all the same hight lying down. Did you know that the average length of a mans arm is also the average waist measurement of a woman!!??
And one last comment on spinning. In the words of Swiss Tony "Spinning is rather like an affair, as long as you'r not involved you won't get hurt."
Time for a group
>> Edited by John Lloyd on Wednesday 22 June 16:48
Bruce
I fell I must leap to your support re old 7uptight. Seems to me that for a first post to the site he went in far to hard. He did not know the background to Jl's spins and just got a bit pompous. your fairly lightheared response produced even more pomposity. if he had gone onto Atom ownership, it's hardly the way to endear himself to his fellow enthusiasts. No loss in my book.
Andrew
I fell I must leap to your support re old 7uptight. Seems to me that for a first post to the site he went in far to hard. He did not know the background to Jl's spins and just got a bit pompous. your fairly lightheared response produced even more pomposity. if he had gone onto Atom ownership, it's hardly the way to endear himself to his fellow enthusiasts. No loss in my book.
Andrew
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