Evo Road & Track Car Shootout
Discussion
July issue -
Overall placing order:
Noble M400
POrsche Boxter S
TVR Sagaris
Lotus Exige
Westfield XI
Ariel Atom 245
Nissan 350Z
Caterham CSR
Westfield 2000S
Mazda MX-5 s/c
Morgan Roadster
Grinnal IV
Radical SR4
Atom came second equal for track with Radical - both beaten by the Noble by one point
Third from last on Road, only the Morgan and ultimately the Grinnall were worse
Overall placing order:
Noble M400
POrsche Boxter S
TVR Sagaris
Lotus Exige
Westfield XI
Ariel Atom 245
Nissan 350Z
Caterham CSR
Westfield 2000S
Mazda MX-5 s/c
Morgan Roadster
Grinnal IV
Radical SR4
Atom came second equal for track with Radical - both beaten by the Noble by one point
Third from last on Road, only the Morgan and ultimately the Grinnall were worse
I've just read the article on the Atom website. I am not proud of it, but I agree with comments at the end of the report. The car is too wild for me I've been told off on two track days at Big Thunder and Spa. Big thunder for spinning. Spa for poor racing line and getting too close to Porshces when breaking. It's not clever I know and I hope my racing skills will get better, but the Atom is f***ing fantastic to drive and it has to be driven as fast as you can manage. As I keep saying I drive at about a third of the speed Bruce does and spin. One day I will drive as fast as him without spinning. I appologies to everyone in advance if I spin, cut them up or for piss poor racing line, but as I've also said before driving the Atoms the best thing you can do with your trousers on!
EVO mag said:
the Atom hasn't quite gelled out on the track. It lacked feel through the steering and the way the car lurched into oversteer on turn-in and then couldn't be controlled on the power made it a frustrating experience...
...It’s got turn-in oversteer, lift-off oversteer, power oversteer… it’s easy to control and it’s fun because it’s flawed
"lacked feel through the steering"? Pardon?
"couldn't be controlled on the power"? Excuse me?
"its flawed"? Sorry?
Sounds very much like someone far far far too used to wishy washy understeery "safe" modern cars.
The Atom handles JUST like a kart:
If you go into a corner too hot, it will oversteer. If you then suddenly jump off the power mid corner, it will also oversteer. If you put the power down too quick, again, it will oversteer. But that's how it should be.
If you approach the corner at the right speed, it will turn in perfectly, and carry bags of speed through the apex. If you blend the power in again exiting the corner, it will drift gently, and will not oversteer.
Surely this is EXACTLY how a pure performance car should be. It rewards you when you get it just right, and when you get it wrong, you get controlled oversteer - rather than lurid understeer that pitches you into the nearest armco.
Alternatively, you can CHOOSE to drive it with the tail hanging out, compromising any sort of exit speed but having a whale of a time - which I'm guilty of a lot of the time - but that's down to driver choice, and not a "flaw" of the car!
John Lloyd said:
I've just read the article on the Atom website. I am not proud of it, but I agree with comments at the end of the report. The car is too wild for me I've been told off on two track days at Big Thunder and Spa. Big thunder for spinning. Spa for poor racing line and getting too close to Porshces when breaking. It's not clever I know and I hope my racing skills will get better, but the Atom is f***ing fantastic to drive and it has to be driven as fast as you can manage. As I keep saying I drive at about a third of the speed Bruce does and spin. One day I will drive as fast as him without spinning. I appologies to everyone in advance if I spin, cut them up or for piss poor racing line, but as I've also said before driving the Atoms the best thing you can do with your trousers on!
I agree entirely - and I'm guilty of spinning a fair bit myself (as you know from Big Thunder!!). However, if we drove F1 cars or 250E superkarts with no prior tuition on a track day, I'm pretty sure we'd spin even more.
But that's what makes the Atom so great. You can make mistakes, without punishment, and learn from them.
And when you do get it right, you know about it, and it gives you an immense sense of satisfaction.
And regardless of whether you get it right or wrong, or go fast or slow, it is indeed "the best thing you can do with your trousers on"!
Probably the first negative report I've read about the Atom so I'm very interested to hear the comments of Atom owners.
I'm aware that if one pays circa £30k for a car there's bound to be a degree of bias in favour of it, It's intersting therefore to read some agreement with the Evo article.
John
I'm aware that if one pays circa £30k for a car there's bound to be a degree of bias in favour of it, It's intersting therefore to read some agreement with the Evo article.
John
datasafe said:There were plenty of negative reports regarding the handling of the Mk1, though not all of them made it to press. Most as a result of a journalist being given a race-car setup by a race-driver when the journalist ...err ...wasn't a race driver!
Probably the first negative report I've read about the Atom so I'm very interested to hear the comments of Atom owners.
datasafe said:Although I disagree with most of what the EVO article said ...I do have to say I'm completely biased towards the Atom, so will probably disagree with anything that slates it!! But hey, the world would be boring if we all agreed!
I'm aware that if one pays circa £30k for a car there's bound to be a degree of bias in favour of it, It's intersting therefore to read some agreement with the Evo article.
EVO has a reputation for being very Caterham/Porsche centric, but let's be honest, the Atom isn't a car for everyone. It's not perfect and from time to time, I've had a quiet grumble...
However, I do think that in this case, they must have been smoking something before going out on track!
I've just added the lap times, and a quote from the article which I think explains an awful lot.
I know that normally they run cars straight from the factory with whatever setup is dialled in, but in this case the car actually belongs to one of the contributors/test drivers and was set up by him!
Not everyone can set up an Atom properly...
Thankfully, the factory can!
However, I do think that in this case, they must have been smoking something before going out on track!
I've just added the lap times, and a quote from the article which I think explains an awful lot.
I know that normally they run cars straight from the factory with whatever setup is dialled in, but in this case the car actually belongs to one of the contributors/test drivers and was set up by him!
Not everyone can set up an Atom properly...
Thankfully, the factory can!
I don't consider myself a top driver, but my experience in the Atoms is that is you set the suspension up in "safe mode" you end up with average handling car, fun and quite fast but not a sharp tool.
When we had our MK1 and we first got our MK2, both we're set up with "safe" settings. This was still a lot of fun but the cars suffered from under steer which turned to over steer too easy.
Once set up with additional camber and some slightly stiffer shock settings the car is transformed. Granted it's a more challenging drive and there's less warning between grip and facing the other way down the track.
It's a bit of a shame that Evo didn't get a car straight from Ariel.
Just out of interest with the timings, I will go out and buy the Mag, but what where the conditions etc. I seem to remember that 5th Gear tested the Atom 220 at Anglesey against a SR3 and got 53.5sec from a standing start, The SR3 was only .2 of a sec faster.
Julian
>> Edited by badge70 on Wednesday 1st June 10:22
When we had our MK1 and we first got our MK2, both we're set up with "safe" settings. This was still a lot of fun but the cars suffered from under steer which turned to over steer too easy.
Once set up with additional camber and some slightly stiffer shock settings the car is transformed. Granted it's a more challenging drive and there's less warning between grip and facing the other way down the track.
It's a bit of a shame that Evo didn't get a car straight from Ariel.
Just out of interest with the timings, I will go out and buy the Mag, but what where the conditions etc. I seem to remember that 5th Gear tested the Atom 220 at Anglesey against a SR3 and got 53.5sec from a standing start, The SR3 was only .2 of a sec faster.
Julian
>> Edited by badge70 on Wednesday 1st June 10:22
If there was such a thing as 'the perfect performer' car, what would be the consequences of a not so perfect driver if:
he drove into a corner to fast, accelerated to hard whilst cornering or exited to fast?
Presumably the driver could blame the car!
What I'm getting at is, should we accept the writer of the report is a perfect driver and therefore believe the Atom's design is at fault?
he drove into a corner to fast, accelerated to hard whilst cornering or exited to fast?
Presumably the driver could blame the car!
What I'm getting at is, should we accept the writer of the report is a perfect driver and therefore believe the Atom's design is at fault?
datasafe said:That's exactly how most cars are made these days. They have to have understeer designed in to allow the numpty to drive totally skill-free out of danger. The Atom is different. It can be set up to exhibit all sorts of performance charateristics - understeer, oversteer, wombling free. The writers of these articles, to be fair, are pretty handy and employ a wealth of skill in getting the most out of a car. But if it's not set up the way they like it, it doesn't perform to its best ability. That's why F1 drivers can't use each other's setup.
If there was such a thing as 'the perfect performer' car, what would be the consequences of a not so perfect driver if:
he drove into a corner to fast, accelerated to hard whilst cornering or exited to fast?
Presumably the driver could blame the car!
What I'm getting at is, should we accept the writer of the report is a perfect driver and therefore believe the Atom's design is at fault?
Having said that, I don't think the Atom needs defending. Frankly, I thought the article was pretty positive, and don't get why some people are reading it as negative... If you like pointy cars - and I do - you'll love the Atom in stock factory track setup. If you prefere something a bit less back-endable, then set it up a different way until you're happy. That's why you can!
I'm less worried about the write up, as you say cars are very subjective.
What does seam strange is the fact that many other mags and testers seem to have been able to go much faster in the Atom than these lot have against the same sorts of cars here.
Ariel have had 220's (in road trim) laping Anglesey in under 50 seconds and the 300 at 48!!!
I know that we are going to bitch a bit as we are all in this club as we love the car but it does seem strange to say that they didn't consider the Atom 300 as it was "hardcore" and then have a SR4 and a 2000s Westie with a sequential box.
Anyway, Caterfield's, Noble's, Radicl's.....Bring it on!
What does seam strange is the fact that many other mags and testers seem to have been able to go much faster in the Atom than these lot have against the same sorts of cars here.
Ariel have had 220's (in road trim) laping Anglesey in under 50 seconds and the 300 at 48!!!
I know that we are going to bitch a bit as we are all in this club as we love the car but it does seem strange to say that they didn't consider the Atom 300 as it was "hardcore" and then have a SR4 and a 2000s Westie with a sequential box.
Anyway, Caterfield's, Noble's, Radicl's.....Bring it on!
ERRRR, i'm very confused! i am trying to work out why many posters on this forum feel this article was negative! Ah, sussed it...nobody with the exception of Bruce has actually read the WHOLE artical, maybe those wishing to comment on it.. should try reading it first!
Just to put a few things into order though...Bruce states the car was not set up by the factory...wrong! it was changed by the factory from its race set-up just for this test.
All the contributors (no it wasn't the opinion of just one person) are racing drivers, so can handle a car... fact, the Atom did spend a few days very, very sideways on track in both wet and dry conditions and it never span!
lap times...well what can i say, tracks change, grip levels change, etc. so how can times from other tests be compared? especially when ones comparing the times of a Radical SR3 to a lighter SR4 which was equipped with the SR3's all singing, full power 1500cc motor which we used, (clearly that comes back to not reading the artical again!!!)
the track part of the feature ended (yup it was in two parts by the way) with three winners. the Atom was one of them, what more do you want?
Just to put a few things into order though...Bruce states the car was not set up by the factory...wrong! it was changed by the factory from its race set-up just for this test.
All the contributors (no it wasn't the opinion of just one person) are racing drivers, so can handle a car... fact, the Atom did spend a few days very, very sideways on track in both wet and dry conditions and it never span!
lap times...well what can i say, tracks change, grip levels change, etc. so how can times from other tests be compared? especially when ones comparing the times of a Radical SR3 to a lighter SR4 which was equipped with the SR3's all singing, full power 1500cc motor which we used, (clearly that comes back to not reading the artical again!!!)
the track part of the feature ended (yup it was in two parts by the way) with three winners. the Atom was one of them, what more do you want?
John Lloyd said:Err ...not really ...as I did read the whole article, and do stand by everything I've said!
Ops we'll all have to eat humble pie. So go on everyone
Overall, the article was very complimentary to the Atom - but I still don't agree with the specific comments regarding the car's handling as a race car. But we're all entitled to our opinions!
haymanator said:Ummm ...not quite sure where you get the evidence to show no-one read the article - just because they disagree with some of what was said doesn't automatically mean that haven't read it! However, there does appear to be some evidence that the people who wrote the article hadn't read the title before starting ...or maybe its just me that expected a "road and track" shootout to include cars that were eligible for both road and track...
ERRRR, i'm very confused! i am trying to work out why many posters on this forum feel this article was negative! Ah, sussed it...nobody with the exception of Bruce has actually read the WHOLE artical, maybe those wishing to comment on it.. should try reading it first!
AHHH, would appear i'm stirring things up here...yippee!
atom120, sorry but looking back at your postings on this subject i do dissagree with your comments.
the atom 1 reference piece of the artical you highlighted was about its on-track ability, ONLY. the steering did lack feel (cos of the suspension) it was difficult to control on the power (cos of the suspension) and it was flawed (cos of the suspension)!
This Atom 2 was on road and track settings, not race ones! and the reason the car did so well in this test is because of the considerable improvements the factory have made to the suspension and brakes over the years. all the cars on the test were tested on the road and the track with the exception of the radical because we couldn't get it out of the circuit because of the speed humps...so didn't include it as such.
Out of the six evo contributors that made up the test team.....three of them actually raced the Factory Atom 2 race car last year, two others race tested it, but the race meeting was cancelled, so they didn't in the end! What that means is... we know what we are doing in one...as we do in many, many other cars!
The Atom did very well in the track part of the test. we didn't feel it was as good as some of the other cars in the test on the road, we were there, we were driving them all, we gave our opinions, the scores then enabled people to make up their own minds...
atom120, sorry but looking back at your postings on this subject i do dissagree with your comments.
the atom 1 reference piece of the artical you highlighted was about its on-track ability, ONLY. the steering did lack feel (cos of the suspension) it was difficult to control on the power (cos of the suspension) and it was flawed (cos of the suspension)!
This Atom 2 was on road and track settings, not race ones! and the reason the car did so well in this test is because of the considerable improvements the factory have made to the suspension and brakes over the years. all the cars on the test were tested on the road and the track with the exception of the radical because we couldn't get it out of the circuit because of the speed humps...so didn't include it as such.
Out of the six evo contributors that made up the test team.....three of them actually raced the Factory Atom 2 race car last year, two others race tested it, but the race meeting was cancelled, so they didn't in the end! What that means is... we know what we are doing in one...as we do in many, many other cars!
The Atom did very well in the track part of the test. we didn't feel it was as good as some of the other cars in the test on the road, we were there, we were driving them all, we gave our opinions, the scores then enabled people to make up their own minds...
haymanator said:Those were precisely the points I was disagreeing with - I don't think the Mk1 steering lacks feel, I don't think its difficult to control on the power, and I don't think its flawed!
the atom 1 reference piece of the artical you highlighted was about its on-track ability, ONLY. the steering did lack feel (cos of the suspension) it was difficult to control on the power (cos of the suspension) and it was flawed (cos of the suspension)!
haymanator said:Again, precisely my point about it being a "track and road" article...
the cars on the test were tested on the road and the track with the exception of the radical because we couldn't get it out of the circuit because of the speed humps...
Ok, i'll take your opinions about the mk1 on board... but it does leave me wondering why.... if it was sooo good already.... why the factory bothered to improve it sooo much!!!!!
The Radical was road legal...but as it was there as the etdcoty 04 champ anyway (and a benchmark to judge track performance and times by), it wasn't such an issue for us to get it on the road, so we didn't and it came last overall!
The Radical was road legal...but as it was there as the etdcoty 04 champ anyway (and a benchmark to judge track performance and times by), it wasn't such an issue for us to get it on the road, so we didn't and it came last overall!
haymanator said:There could be a million reasons why they changed things ...though many of the basics are still the same, and the basic handling characteristics are the same. In many ways, I prefer the Mk1 - which is why I sold my Mk2 and kept my Mk1...
Ok, i'll take your opinions about the mk1 on board... but it does leave me wondering why.... if it was sooo good already.... why the factory bothered to improve it sooo much!!!!!
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