Self build Atom ?
Discussion
Hi,
Any of you Atomeers know if its possible to buy the parts needed to build your own Atom.
I've just finished my third 7even and would really like to put one of these together.
Main reason for self build, would primarily be cost, but also to personalise the car a little.
It'll be ideal to get a rolling chassis and then go from there.
Cheers
Any of you Atomeers know if its possible to buy the parts needed to build your own Atom.
I've just finished my third 7even and would really like to put one of these together.
Main reason for self build, would primarily be cost, but also to personalise the car a little.
It'll be ideal to get a rolling chassis and then go from there.
Cheers
monza said:
You can ask the factory but i'm 99% sure that they will not accept. Atom is not and must not be a Kit car.
Actually, to import an Atom to the USA it is legally required to be in "Kit" form because as a finished vehicle it does not conform to the US vehicle requirements for safety, emissions, and other componant regulations and necessary requirements for vehicles intended to be driven on public roadways. The same US regulations are the reason other specialty vehicles are imported as Kits - Example= NOBLE Motor car. I have been talking with Simon and I am currently considering having an Atom chasis built and shipped to me.
Other countries may have different import laws but it does not seem to be a problem to order a rolling chasis.
Interesting.
Some figures on the rolling chassis would be nice.
Intriguing statement regarding the "kitcar" tag.
In my opinion, the Atom is indeed of the same genre. At the end of the day, the factory gets to sell a car be it complete or in parts form regardless.
A sale is a sale which ever way you look at it.
Some figures on the rolling chassis would be nice.
Intriguing statement regarding the "kitcar" tag.
In my opinion, the Atom is indeed of the same genre. At the end of the day, the factory gets to sell a car be it complete or in parts form regardless.
A sale is a sale which ever way you look at it.
Regretably, the "kitcar" tag can often be condescendingly proclaimed to cover anything that is assembled outside of the factory whence it was manufactured.
The legacy of the early development/disasters of the industry is something that it is unfortunately stuck with.
These vehicles cannot be compared with some of the "self build" vehicles available today. Cars such as the Ultima, GT40's, GD's, Caterhams etc, etc.
Anyone, non-enthusiast/general public types, looking in from the outside, will unfortunately always class the Atom as a form of "kitcar". Whether you just spend a few hours connecting up a seperatley crated engine or 12 months screwing every nut and bolt together
Ask Caterham. Production car or self-build ?
The legacy of the early development/disasters of the industry is something that it is unfortunately stuck with.
These vehicles cannot be compared with some of the "self build" vehicles available today. Cars such as the Ultima, GT40's, GD's, Caterhams etc, etc.
Anyone, non-enthusiast/general public types, looking in from the outside, will unfortunately always class the Atom as a form of "kitcar". Whether you just spend a few hours connecting up a seperatley crated engine or 12 months screwing every nut and bolt together
Ask Caterham. Production car or self-build ?
lchris21 said:
A sale is a sale which ever way you look at it.
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
Any marketing strategy has an effect on the perceived value and quality of a product. To sell the Atom as a 'Kit Car' would put it in the same class as those ghastly home built specials.
In order to maintain the price tag and image of the vehicle, Ariel should never (in my opinion as a marketing expert of some 27 years) sell the car in any other way than as a complete vehicle backed by the quality control of the factory. Bear in mind that Rob in the US is more than competent to put the car together and was one of the first people to investigate the installing of the Honda engine in the Mk2. ...hardly a 'home builder'.
I hope that Ariel never sell the chassis separately, and I think that will be the case as long as the cars keep selling.
Of course, there's nothing to stop people from buying a car and modifying it... just look at the Reeves Special (and Pete is up to something unusual, too...). But ultiamtely, that's not the responsibility of the factory.
Bruce Fielding said:
A sale is a sale which ever way you look at it.
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
Any marketing strategy has an effect on the perceived value and quality of a product. To sell the Atom as a 'Kit Car' would put it in the same class as those ghastly home built specials.
In order to maintain the price tag and image of the vehicle, Ariel should never (in my opinion as a marketing expert of some 27 years) sell the car in any other way than as a complete vehicle backed by the quality control of the factory. Bear in mind that Rob in the US is more than competent to put the car together and was one of the first people to investigate the installing of the Honda engine in the Mk2. ...hardly a 'home builder'.
Being no marketing expert myself I agree with the company not selling the Atom, marketed as a kitcar, because to the un-initiated it would devalue the marque. Very few specialsed vehicles are marketed as kitcars, because as I pointed out earlier, the legacy of the early 70's image.
There are some ghastly home built specials around agreed, but they tend to get listed on Ebay with no reserve. Get yourself along to Stoneleigh next weekend and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised as to the quality some home builders can produce.
If a company can pick and choose who/what they sell you then its down to them. Best of luck to them.
Being in the engineering industry for 22 years (automotive sector for the last 15), the first thing I look for in a car, whether its mass produced, factory, cottage industry or home built, is the attention to detail. Its all relative, one man's quality is another's poor workmanship.
I don't want to get into some irelevant argument, just came on the forum to get some info.
Cheers
The way I see it, there are two reasons for wanting to build the car yourself.
Firstly, for the experience of building the thing - which surely is better off done with a car that's designed as a kit car. As the Atom's not designed that way, and there is no knowledge base out there regarding how to do it, and the last thing the factory need is to have to start writing assembly manuals or answering build queries - you wouldn't believe the number of phone calls they already get every day from the press alone! I'd have thought there are better candidates out there than the Atom for the "building experience".
Secondly, to get a car that's different to all the rest. With the Atom, if you want something different, the factory will usually be more than happy to do it for you! They hate building any two Atoms the same! I wanted a car with an unpainted chassis, extra mountings added, existing mountings removed, etc - they're more than willing to do it. I can't really see that there's much to gain from building it yourself!
Firstly, for the experience of building the thing - which surely is better off done with a car that's designed as a kit car. As the Atom's not designed that way, and there is no knowledge base out there regarding how to do it, and the last thing the factory need is to have to start writing assembly manuals or answering build queries - you wouldn't believe the number of phone calls they already get every day from the press alone! I'd have thought there are better candidates out there than the Atom for the "building experience".
Secondly, to get a car that's different to all the rest. With the Atom, if you want something different, the factory will usually be more than happy to do it for you! They hate building any two Atoms the same! I wanted a car with an unpainted chassis, extra mountings added, existing mountings removed, etc - they're more than willing to do it. I can't really see that there's much to gain from building it yourself!
Bruce Fielding said:
A sale is a sale which ever way you look at it.
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
Any marketing strategy has an effect on the perceived value and quality of a product. To sell the Atom as a 'Kit Car' would put it in the same class as those ghastly home built specials.
In order to maintain the price tag and image of the vehicle, Ariel should never (in my opinion as a marketing expert of some 27 years) sell the car in any other way than as a complete vehicle backed by the quality control of the factory. Bear in mind that Rob in the US is more than competent to put the car together and was one of the first people to investigate the installing of the Honda engine in the Mk2. ...hardly a 'home builder'.
I hope that Ariel never sell the chassis separately, and I think that will be the case as long as the cars keep selling.
Of course, there's nothing to stop people from buying a car and modifying it... just look at the Reeves Special (and Pete is up to something unusual, too...). But ultiamtely, that's not the responsibility of the factory.
Bruce-
What was originally asked in this Thread was "Is possible to purchase a rolling chasis from ARIEL Motor Co. and build your own Atom?"
"WRONG WRONG WRONG" is incorrect!
If your reply is in response the the classification of Kit" car then it is your opinion and not fact.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
FACT:
According to my recent conversations with Simon it IS POSSIBLE to purchase a rolling chasis. This determination may be governed by the import laws of certain countries. He may decline to sell a chasis only to a customer if the destination country would allow for the importation of the complete vehicle. This is information that I do not know. A personal conversation with Simon is what is needed to determine the correct answer to this question.
Not to debate semantics with you but the designation of "Kit" in legal terms allows for the importation of certain vehicles that would not otherwise be approved. As a comparison, I do not think that anyone would consider a Noble to be a Kit car. But even this high-end vehicle is a composition of componants that must be assembled as separate units in order to meet the import guidelines. The Atom must be shipped as separate engine and chasis componants to be approved for import to this country. And to further complicate the import process, the engine/transmission must be sold, crated, and shipped from a different vendor other than ARIEL Motor Co. to meet the criteria of separate componants.
Nobody is suggesting that ARIEL sell individual parts and allow for complete independant assembly. What is being allowed is the sale of a completely assembled rolling chasis and separate engine that have been engineered, tested, and proven reliable and safe when assembled to original factory guidelines.
lchris21- I suggest that you contact Simon directly and discuss your situation with him. I found him to be very accomodating and willing to consider most anything a customer may want. He will also potentially save you time and money by telling you what modifications work well and what may be questionable.
BTW- I am just in the early stages of planning and budgeting for a build project. I hope to take a trip to the factory and test drive sometime later this summer. My proposed Atom will be powered by a race prep HONDA K24 complete with Supercharger. Anticipated output will be 350HP + Chasis will be a fully tuned race suspension. There are other slight modifications also being discussed.
It seems that ARIEL Motor Co. is willing to build almost anything that the customer requires. I am quite pleased with the level of expertise and the regular communication.
lchris21 said:
...the first thing I look for in a car, whether its mass produced, factory, cottage industry or home built, is the attention to detail.
Please don't think that this is a personal attack in any way at all. In fact you're only asking what a number of others have asked in the past.
I personally believe that if you're competent enough to build your own Locoblade and fabricate your own exhaust system, then you can probably put together a car like the Atom. But just because you can doesn't mean everyone can.
The origin of brands was actually in the pharmaceutical industry where there was previously a vast difference in quality which led to all sorts of problems - including fatalities. A brand name ensured to the consumer (or doctor or patient) that a certain consistent standard of quality would be maintained - or the company would soon get a reputation for the opposite and be out of business.
The truth is that most of us aren't qualified to tell what constitutes good quality and attention to detail in a mechanical and engineering context. That's why we have to rely on brands.
And Andy is right about the manuals and stuff that would need to be produced - as well as the flexibility of the factory. I urge you to take a look at the build quality of an Atom if you get the chance. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised - both professionally and emotionally.
cruzrmm
You are a specific case because you want to import an Atom in USA with these particular rules, whatever this Atom will be custom made or not by the factory.
My opinion is very simple for other people than American ones : i hope Ariel will never sell a rolling chassis or a parts chassis ...
That's only my opinion and perhaps Simon's one.
You have to know that i have no bad opinion about Kit Cars because i plan, in some years, to build an Ultima, but i'll still have an atom in my garage ....
You are a specific case because you want to import an Atom in USA with these particular rules, whatever this Atom will be custom made or not by the factory.
My opinion is very simple for other people than American ones : i hope Ariel will never sell a rolling chassis or a parts chassis ...
That's only my opinion and perhaps Simon's one.
You have to know that i have no bad opinion about Kit Cars because i plan, in some years, to build an Ultima, but i'll still have an atom in my garage ....
Cruzrmm said:
Bruce-
What was originally asked in this Thread was "Is possible to purchase a rolling chasis from ARIEL Motor Co. and build your own Atom?"
"WRONG WRONG WRONG" is incorrect!
WRONG WRONG WRONG isn't No No No.
It's a personal opinion that I feel it would be wrong for the factory to sell kits in the generally accepted meaning of the term. I appreciate that to short circuit the vaguaries of central and local government type approvals in other countries, it may be necessary to officially designate a car as a kit car. I don't think this was the intention of the original post.
Cruzrmm said:
BTW- I am just in the early stages of planning and budgeting for a build project. I hope to take a trip to the factory and test drive sometime later this summer. My proposed Atom will be powered by a race prep HONDA K24 complete with Supercharger. Anticipated output will be 350HP + Chasis will be a fully tuned race suspension. There are other slight modifications also being discussed.
I think you just proved my point! The factory is the best way to have yourself precisely the Atom you want... and you don't even have to get your fingers greasy!
>> Edited by Bruce Fielding on Sunday 24th April 19:19
Bruce Fielding said:
WRONG WRONG WRONG isn't No No No.
It's a personal opinion that I feel it would be wrong for the factory to sell kits in the generally accepted meaning of the term.
WRONG WRONG WRONG could easily be inferred as NO NO NO
To clarify your intended meaning I did quantify my statement in the next sentense. That is why if you choose to quote someone it is important to capture all of the statement that is pertanent to your response.
Cruzrmm said:
"WRONG WRONG WRONG" is incorrect!
If your reply is in response the the classification of "Kit" car then it is your opinion and not fact.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
And yes, I agree 100% with Bruce, the BEST way to have exactly what you want is to have ARIEL build as much of it for you that is possible to allow you to take delivery in your country of destination. Believe me, if it were possible, I would much prefer a Turn-Key finished vehicle. ....Fuel, oil, battery, turn the key, BLAST OFF! LOL
bruce fielding said:
Umm. Mine came full of oil and fuel and there isn't a key to turn...
True for complete vehicles. For overseas shipping there can be no flamable liquids (I think that 1/4 fuel or less) or source of ignition (battery). And yes, no key is standard- but I am having a keyed Master Switch installed as part of my security system. So for the Atom that I am considering "Turn Key" is applicable.
WOW! I just registered on the site yesterday and already it seems that I am addicted to monitoring these ARIEL Forums. LOL I have been lurking for some time now but when I saw this particular Thread I just had to respond with the information that I have aquired from the factory.
Between spending time here and on NSXPRIME www.nsxprime.com
(I also own an NSX seen here- www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=440338&postcount=5)
I will find it hard to get much else done after work.
I hope to learn as much as I can about the Atom prior to placing my order so that I can get it "Just right" with some of the mods that I am planning. Anyone else that has a Supercharged Atom please make your suggestions...
I may just have to start a new Thread.
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